Author Topic: Brexit.  (Read 168702 times)

AQMP

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2895 on: November 10, 2017, 12:53:37 PM »
I don't think the British government gave much thought to 'the Irish problem'. To me they don't know what to do about it. Does NO remain inside the common market like the rest of Ireland with a frictionless border, or outside the EU totally and with a border. After all the whole Brexit vote was to 'protect the borders' despite what everyone says. What ecactly do the DUP want? Do they even know themselves?

The DUP's motivation is to support anything that makes the divide between the two parts of Ireland wider.  I don't think they've considered, or care about, day to day consequences.

johnneycool

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2896 on: November 10, 2017, 01:35:39 PM »
I don't think the British government gave much thought to 'the Irish problem'. To me they don't know what to do about it. Does NO remain inside the common market like the rest of Ireland with a frictionless border, or outside the EU totally and with a border. After all the whole Brexit vote was to 'protect the borders' despite what everyone says. What ecactly do the DUP want? Do they even know themselves?

The DUP's motivation is to support anything that makes the divide between the two parts of Ireland wider.  I don't think they've considered, or care about, day to day consequences.

They want to be as british as Finchley, but I'm sure the farmers in Finchley aren't shipping their meat and dairy products to processing plants in the South of Ireland.


vallankumous

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2897 on: November 10, 2017, 02:08:42 PM »

They want to be as british as Finchley, but I'm sure the farmers in Finchley aren't shipping their meat and dairy products to processing plants in the South of Ireland.

What about the poultry farmers?

Breggsit will impact them too.

Rossfan

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2898 on: November 10, 2017, 03:18:20 PM »
Will Finchley be having a border poll to see if they want to unite with someone?
I see British Minister Davis says "they" aren't going to split "our UK".
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seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2899 on: November 10, 2017, 04:01:22 PM »
I don't think the British government gave much thought to 'the Irish problem'. To me they don't know what to do about it. Does NO remain inside the common market like the rest of Ireland with a frictionless border, or outside the EU totally and with a border. After all the whole Brexit vote was to 'protect the borders' despite what everyone says. What ecactly do the DUP want? Do they even know themselves?

The DUP's motivation is to support anything that makes the divide between the two parts of Ireland wider.  I don't think they've considered, or care about, day to day consequences.
Money is more important to voters than ideology.
Brexit will make NI poorer.

Fox says he can get 30 trade deals to replace the 40% of exports that go to the EU. Hammond calls him a fantasist.
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johnneycool

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2900 on: November 10, 2017, 04:07:16 PM »

They want to be as british as Finchley, but I'm sure the farmers in Finchley aren't shipping their meat and dairy products to processing plants in the South of Ireland.

What about the poultry farmers?

Breggsit will impact them too.

Of course, not to be taken literally.  All manufacturers of dairy products are equally blessed.


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Denn Forever

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2901 on: November 10, 2017, 04:10:57 PM »
So willl the Junior Doctors have to work 60 hours week now that we've got rid of those pesky EU laws?
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AQMP

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2902 on: November 10, 2017, 04:23:56 PM »
John Crace sums it up:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/babble-brexit-progress-dave-ooze-defeat-barnier

Babbling about Brexit progress, Dave only oozes defeat.

It’s all starting to get a bit embarrassing. In the press conferences following the early rounds of negotiations, Michel Barnier used to make a point of making most of his remarks in English to make things easier for David Davis. But at the sixth time of asking he’s clearly decided there isn’t any language that Davis properly understands, so he might as well suit himself and speak in his native French.

Barnier bashed his head against the lectern. He wasn’t sure how much plainer he could be. What bit of “sincere and real progress” did the British Brexit secretary not understand? He tried again. This time speaking a bit slower. As he would to a not-very-bright six-year-old.

If Britain wanted to move on to the next phase of talks, it had to come up with something better than making progress towards making progress, he said. The EU wasn’t asking for, nor would be making, any concessions. It was all a matter of legal certainty. And while some work had been done – with a little help, Davis was now often able to locate the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland on a map – there was still much more that needed to be done.

When he moved on to the financial contributions, Barnier couldn’t resist a little smirk. He’d had tougher negotiations with his kids over how much TV they could watch than he had with the British contingent. His kids would never have limited their options so catastrophically by triggering article 50 before they knew what they wanted as an outcome.

“The UK decided to leave the EU more than 500 days ago and...” he said, his voice tailing off. And next to nothing had happened since. The clock was ticking for the UK, not the EU. Britain would be leaving the EU on 29 March 2019 and it could either do so in an orderly manner by making an effort to get to grips with the situation, or fall out chaotically without a deal.

Davis – almost certainly unintentionally – gave every impression that a chaotic no deal was precisely his preferred option. He began by talking about the “new dynamic” of the negotiations since the prime minister’s Florence speech. New dynamic as in slower dynamic. The monthly talks usually last four days; this round had been reduced to two days since everyone realised it would be a waste of time to spend any longer getting nowhere

On the substantive issues, Davis appeared equally lost. He still hasn’t grasped the logic of Northern Ireland needing to remain in the single market and the customs union to prevent the need for a hard border and he also appears not to understand the fundamental imbalance of power within the negotiations. As for the financial settlement, “substantial technical progress” had been made. Britain had finally agreed the currency. If not the amount. “We’ve listened carefully and responded,” he said. Barnier appeared bewildered by that.

Questions from the media only underlined how little progress had been made. Was it true there was no chance of the European council agreeing to move the talks on to the next stage unless Britain put a whole load more cash on the table within the next two weeks, a German reporter asked. Barnier paused. There was a time when he might have been inclined to dodge that question to give the Brits a bit of slack, but now he was right out of patience. Davis would just have to suck it up. “Je pense que oui,” he said. (“I think so.”)

Even Dopey Dave understood that. There were just two weeks to try to save Brexit. He looked around for help, before it dawned on him that he was the person on whom the country was counting. He mumbled something about being willing and able, while sounding anything but. His expression was of a man who had only just realised he was completely out of his depth. Defeat oozed out of every pore. The Brexiter for whom hubris beckoned unless the Maybot was suddenly willing to hand over €60bn.

The sense of deadlocked resignation spilled out into the room as Barnier went on to say they had barely scratched the surface of the negotiations. We were still a long way off the end of the beginning. He was then asked if he thought Theresa May would still be in power by the end of the year, let alone by the end of the negotiations. Barnier declined to comment though he didn’t appear to care much either way. Or to offer much hope for her survival.

“We’re making progress,” Davis insisted as he was led away by his child minder. One day he would say it and it might be true. But not today. Or probably any time soon.

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2903 on: November 11, 2017, 02:39:17 PM »
Brussels and the Irish govt want to keep NI in the customs union and Single market to protect the GFA and avoid a hard border. The UK govt doesn't want this because it is dependent on the DUP for its majority. The DUP would pauperise its own people.
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Farrandeelin

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2904 on: November 11, 2017, 04:13:59 PM »
Brussels and the Irish govt want to keep NI in the customs union and Single market to protect the GFA and avoid a hard border. The UK govt doesn't want this because it is dependent on the DUP for its majority. The DUP would pauperise its own people.

Thought the DUP wanted a frictionless border? Or am I mistaken with all the different scenarios that has been presented.
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armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2905 on: November 11, 2017, 04:24:24 PM »
Thought the DUP wanted a frictionless border? Or am I mistaken with all the different scenarios that has been presented.

They say, like their masters, that they want a frictionless border with the UK out of the Single market and the Customs Union.
This is impossible, of course, and you know rightly that they will go for non frictionless border. They would probably build a minefield and a fence if they thought they would get away with it.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

imtommygunn

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2906 on: November 11, 2017, 04:56:43 PM »
Anything which would make crossing the "border" more difficult would in their eyes be great. They don't seem to grasp that they are just pushing middle ground people more towards desiring a united ireland. Fools.

armaghniac

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2907 on: November 11, 2017, 06:28:44 PM »
Anything which would make crossing the "border" more difficult would in their eyes be great. They don't seem to grasp that they are just pushing middle ground people more towards desiring a united ireland. Fools.

From their perspective they could create such economic chaos and disconnection that you could have an unhappy NI, but one in which it was difficult to come up with a useful model to change it.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2908 on: November 11, 2017, 08:21:16 PM »
The Unionists want something because they think the world owes them a living.  They think they are superior to the Irosh so they can get what they want. But that is over.

The Single market is like pregnant. There is no halfway. Protestant farmers will be the big losers. The battle of the Ford of the biscuits 2.0
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seafoid

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2909 on: November 11, 2017, 08:57:56 PM »
Anything which would make crossing the "border" more difficult would in their eyes be great. They don't seem to grasp that they are just pushing middle ground people more towards desiring a united ireland. Fools.

From their perspective they could create such economic chaos and disconnection that you could have an unhappy NI, but one in which it was difficult to come up with a useful model to change it.
Unionism assumes British is better off economically than Irish. Not any more. Sometimes the "parent " country f**ks it up. Alsace isn't in Germany now.

Brexit is madness.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"