Down v Meath official thread

[corn02]

Enda McNulty is a good sports phychologist and has a free summer, no? Just a thought.

I would not be surprised to see Meath make a semi or a leats give a good account in the quarters.

[amallon]

Benny plays an occasional cameo role but has never delivered on his promise. Probably been at the wrong club for that. Downs worst spell  for 50 years has been matched by Mayobridge dominance at club level within the county ( and abject failure in Ulster Club).

bcarrier I'm on holiday so I haven't been in front of the computer much, and hadn't intended to be online at all today but 3 people mentioned your comment above to me in the Bridge dressing room last night and I just couldn't let that go.  I'd like you to explain exactly how pur period of dominance is to blame for Down's poor performances.  What more can we as a club do?  Our five best players are with the county panel, if the whole team had shown the heart Ronan Sexton has shown this season Down wouldn't be in this situation. 

Your hatred of the Bridge is clouding your judgement, either that or you had been on the beer when your wrote the above comment.  Where would Down be without the Bridge contingent?  Don't answer that it doesn't bear thinking about.  The Bridge as a club are doing everything right at the minute and hard work is paying off for us.  Our teams are well coached and no stone is left unturned in preparing our teams, this hard work has delivered 6 championships since 99.  Don't blame us because other clubs aren't at our level.

I won't be back in front of a pc for a few days but I look forward to reading your reply over the weekend.

[orangeman]

One of the headlines in y'days paper was : DONT BLAME CARR - DOWN ARE SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH - and this is a fair enough analysis - they won 1 match this year - surely this tells all the story -

[Leo]

According to the match programme on Saturday, our record in the back door was the 24th worst in the country going into the game.

Mourne Rover - after Saturday  our record is now 25th worst - Kildare having gone above us after their win. What a record for Down!
The debacle against Sligo last year led to loud claims for POR to go. By any standards - results  in McKenna Cup, Nat League, Championship, Qualifiers - and most of all the evidence of our own eyes - the situation this year is far far worse. Name me one improvement that has been made either in personnel, positions, tactics or most of all ,spirit. Somebody on the bus is kidding us - but not all of us.

[Denver Mayobridge]

So what are you saying Leo? Ross and DJ out? Wholesale changes?

Name them

[Leo]

Well Denver - let's start with your clubman Benny. Can you explain his recent performances in the Down jersey? Is he played out of position? Is he not motivated? Has he suddenly become just an ordinary player?
Now let's consider Brenadan Grant - do you think he is anything other than a fiull back or corner back?
How many club games do you go to? How many players from Castlewellan or Kilcoo have been given a fair crack in the team?
Just to start you thinking ........

[orangeman]

Let the bloodletting begin then .........................

Seriously but - yuo can't just give DJ / Ross one year and throw them out - Down need time - they need to find new players and find a new attitude as well.

[bcarrier]

Aidan, I really dont have any hate for the 'bridge ( but do like to get a rise out of you) . While I am sure you would have hoped to have done better in Ulster I think there has probably been a certain level of contentment amongst supporters there with success in Down. ( you talked yourself about meath being a good test - if we lost we could get on with club season) It strikes me that a lot of ' bridge lads are happy to be beating Clonduff, Kilcoo and Burren without wanting to be the very best they could be. ( I read Benny's interview in Sunday Times lately and in fairness to him he did a fair critique of himself). It is of course up to every other club to do the same .

[spiritof91and94]

it was nearly as bad a sligo last year.
we were rank, absolutely crap, and yet we owned the ball for the last 20 mins and still couldnt put up any meaningful scores or threat.
Lets just call a spade a spade here..imo They were/are all crap apart from Clarke & Scullion and maybe Mc Veigh.

Scullion is a no-nonsense defender who rarely gives his man little or no space/time on the ball, he is always up his mans ar*e and just comes across as a guy who would die on the ball and always gives of his best, rarely looks disinterested or preoccupied with anything other than the task at hand. if only we had a few more players with his attitude and desire. Im no carryduff man, nor do i rate him highly as a "footballer" and ive seen him get skinned a few times at club level but what i do admire are his other qualities,(see above).

Clarke did little wrong for me, for a guy (like so many others) who is moved around more than often in the down team this last 3 yrs, he did simple things so well, he won ball in the air, layed it off to team mates and was (like scullion) tight on his man and won his individual battle.

Murtagh experiment is over - a disater waiting to happen, was skinned most of match and possibly should have released ball earlier to attack, if he wants to carry ball then play him in forward line (where he belongs) where resulting free kicks wont cost as much. an undoubted talent but saddened to see him made look so ordinary on saturday.

Most of our defence was a yard or two behind their men mostr of the game.
Question ; how often in 1st half especially did meath forwards win ball out in front uncontested and have time and space to turn, look up and pick a pass or hit a score (or wide in most cases)?..vey depressing to see no tackle or challenge of note.

Declan Rooney is a quite an average club player-outstanding by no means , but yet he is suddenly thrust into the limelight as captain and leader of the senior team in his full debut year. Maybe less pressure from captaincy role and a stint at wing half back would see a better return.

I hate to be personal on here and have tried not to get into slanging matches about individuals but im just calling it as i see it.
Kevin mc guigan has played in nearly every down match this year and still our management sees something that the rest of the county cant see. If he is a county standard corner back then my arse plays the banjo. again not questioning comittment or hunger the lad just doesnt have it. anyone notice how many times this year he has ended up on the wrong side of his man or his man has beaten him on the outside.

our forward line whether individually or collectively are not the most talentless bunch ever but by christ when are we going to have a set system of play with a set gameplan (excluding benny) where we can maximise potential from the attacking line. Every man should know his role, and should be carrying that role out to full potential. at the minute we are rudderless up front and seems to me that half of them dont want to shoot from distance or are looking to pass the ball when th shot is on.
Dont even want to comment on Coulter because its all been said before.

and again not wanting to harp on..i for one do not truly believe that our county senior panelists are leading the correct lifestyle required (or befitting semi-professional footballers) to compete or indeed conslidate with the top 15 teams in the country at the present time.
i also agree that the leagues need to be seriously looked at and revamped..

Brick
You cant say Scullion is near a County standard defender - he was bloody roasted in the first half and should have got the early shower with Grant moving to the full back line.
Down are dire and need to start winning games at any level and should start by going for the tommy murphy cup next year and blood players on confidence not demoralising league defeats.
Maybe another walk up Donard should be called for with half them staying up at the summit!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brick Tamlin]

im sticking by what i said. Grant to full back would be no better off im afraid, he hasnt same pace as scullion although he can read a game well and is safe on the ball, but for all out pace & energy id be sticking with scullion for full back. everyone has an opinion.

[Leo]

Let the bloodletting begin then .........................

Seriously but - yuo can't just give DJ / Ross one year and throw them out - Down need time - they need to find new players and find a new attitude as well.

Ross said earlier that it was a young panel and would take soime time. It is the same bloody panel that POR had except a few of them are now being played totally out of position (Murtagh, Clarke etc.).At least POR had restored pride in the Down jersey notwithstanding the poor display against Sligo (by the way Sligo dont look too bad after this wekkend do they?).

[6th sam]

Now you're talking wombles.
Root and branch approach needed.
A strategic plan for the county required--but do we have the right personnel,to do it objectively?
We have taken the lead before in terms of innovation--Maurice Hayes etc.,in the 60s,so why not set the standard for other counties again,by taking the county to a superior level of organisation.
Demographically speaking ,we are potentially one of the strongest counties in Ireland-and we have proven in the past when we get organised we're as good as anyone!
Parochial rivalries ,petty jealousies,and short-sighted side-swipes at senior players/management have to be put to one side.

[its me again]

could someone please tell me why kilcoo are top of div 1 the past two years and played the bridge to a point in last years county semi final

yet they have no one on the panel?

i have not seen them play this year but have read about them

could someone shed a bit of light why they are not represented??

does anyone think ross and dj have missed anyone is the quest for unearthed talent?

[DownFanatic]

   Just been thinking about the whole situation our county is in at the moment. In my opinion a whole restructuring of the underage setup is needed. Although our Development squads are well enough run I think we need something more dynamic.
   At U-12 level (1st Year School) and U-13 level (2nd Year School), I would be in favour of South Down and East Down Development Squads. Here, the Down schools would have a big part to play. This would involve regular Blitzes and Tournaments throughout the year. Grammar, Secondary and Vocational schools should all compete under the same umbrella and these initiatives should be co-ordinated by an elected group of school teachers with the assistance of the County Board. Players that are selected on these teams should be picked on performances during these Blitzes. At these two levels both South and East Down should have two teams at each level. For example, two East Down U-13 teams with 30 players in each panel. During the year South Down would play East Down in challenge games while outside games against say Mid Armagh should also be arranged. Joint Seminars on Diet, Fitness and the like should be held every couple of months for each team and the necessary training gear and equipment should be provided to the players. Note: In 2nd year schools in Down should compete in the Dalton, Corn Comchille etc.
   At U-14 level (3rd Year School) I would change the system and adopt a whole County approach werein the best 30 players form a Down U-14 A Squad while the next best 30 form a Down U-14 B squad. This is where a group of Level 2 standard coaches should come in and direct affairs. Players should be selected on their records from the previous two years. I know it may be going a bit far but maybe a file being kept on each Representative player would assist matters here aswell as previous coach and teacher advice. These two U-14 squads should train regularly, take part in as many Blitzes as possible and even head South for fixtures.
   At U-15 level (4th Year School) one squad should prevail and the term 'Developmental' dropped. A panel of say 40 players should be selected for this team. A management team of at least four people should be put in charge of this set of players and should stay with them every year through to Minor. The selection of players should be pretty accurate at this stage and the strongest 40 should be a strong one. The Ulster Council have a part to play here aswell. Id like to see them establish an Ulster U-15 Championship based along the lines of the Senior Championship. This gives young players the chance to experience Championship level football whilst giving the management an idea of where the team is at.
   Again, these U-15 players should move through to U-16 and U-17 level with the same management in place. Ulster Championships at U-16 and U-17 should be arranged aswell. Close links with the schools should also be maintained whilst open meetings with club representatives should be encouraged. One stipulation I would have with the U-17 squad is that open trials should be had at the start of the year. This allows for late developers to stake a claim for place. However, the squad should remain largely intact from previous years.
   All going well the same 30+ panel of players that have been together since U-14 level and have been groomed since U-12s should then form the Minor (U-18 team).

Just a few other points:
* Do away with the East Down and South Down Boards and run all Underage competions from U-12 up under the auspices of Bord na Og.
* Try to get each school playing at 'A' standard level. For example, St Louis, St Patricks, St Colmans and the Abbey should all be playing at MacRory, Rannafast, Brock, Corn na Og and Dalton Level. On another note, though it may never happen, campaign for the likes of St Marks, St Malachy's and St Columbans to get the chance to play in B competions. For example, every Vocational School in Ulster should be allowed to enter the McLarnon Cup, Herald Cup etc.
* Encourage talented players who are thinking about leaving school in 5th year to stay on. This may mean that local Grammar schools may have to offer more Vocational styled subjects but this could entice those in the 16+ age range to stay on and play Senior Colleges football. Teachers, clubs and County mentors all would have a responsibility here.
* Make Gaelic Football more attractive than say the DYFL (Downpatrick Youth Football League). This organisation in my opinion has ruined some of the most talented players in East Down and again in my opinion is solely responsible for the RGU's lack of county representatives in previous years. The same can be said for Newry. Simply put, make Gaelic the more popular option.
* Schools should also think about making Gaelic and Hurling the primary sports in their PE curriculum. This would be crucial to football's advancement.
* Finally, Down needs a Centre of Excellence. I believe that a 5 pitch, floodlit arena complete with gym, sports hall, changing rooms, conference centre and medical resources is crucial. This facility could be used by every Football team from Senior to U-12 Development Squad. A central location such as Castlewellan would be best suited for this purpose.

Rant over.

[Mourne Rover]

It should be obvious that Down's GAA structures require major surgery, and DownFanatic has come up with a range of proposals which might form part of the basis for a five-year plan. I would not agree with development squads before u14 level, but I would be all in favour of a new strategy for our schools. Any changes to the McLarnon Cup etc could only go through on a province-wide basis, but there is nothing to prevent new internal competitions for Down.

A Centre of Excellence is an absolute essential. There are various ways in which it could be funded, but selling St Patrick's Park, if that is still an option, should not be ruled out.

While the decline in standards in the main towns of Newry and Downpatrick is not new, it still needs to be addressed. A programme which also includes Banbridge and particularly the biggest centre of population in the county, the area covered by the Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's clubs, should be established.

The established south and east Down clubs with smaller populations are doing a great job. It is the clubs with large catchment areas, and which have rival sporting and social attractions, which need some help.