http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2011/0223/hawkeye.html
Good to see the GAA giving this a go.
Referees will get an instant result in terms of a score and will have the discretion to overrule this and this will cover scores only, so square balls, penalties will still be down to human decision making.
However if it means the days of teams losing games due to valid scores not counting and vice versa it can surely only be a good thing.
How will this work, will the system only be setup in Croke Park or in every county ground for championship matches?
If its used for a championship match in Croke Park then the same rules must apply to every championship match.
I think this will go the same way as the video referee last year, the same rules must apply to every match regardless of whether it is live on Tv or subject to media analysis.
Quote from: rashCharacter on February 24, 2011, 03:15:52 AM
How will this work, will the system only be setup in Croke Park or in every county ground for championship matches?
If its used for a championship match in Croke Park then the same rules must apply to every championship match.
I think this will go the same way as the video referee last year, the same rules must apply to every match regardless of whether it is live on Tv or subject to media analysis.
would agree, but as we all know, not every referee is the same so that mantra you set out cannot be enforced.
No two games will be refereed the same unfortunately.
So it would be with hawkeye - if its only in croker (at least for the pilot) then teams would accept it. I'd certainly have no problem with that.
To me its only an issue for disputed points, but lets put it like this I dont think it would have make any difference to some referees, you know the ones who are as mad as hatters, as much as Im against bad refereeing, I think if we remove that ability for the man in the middle to lose the bap and try to play crazy-God on the big day that craziness might just be something you wouldnt want to take out of the game. As I get older I find refereeing performances can be as entertining as the match themselves.
Quote from: Orangemac on February 23, 2011, 11:56:06 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2011/0223/hawkeye.html
Good to see the GAA giving this a go.
Referees will get an instant result in terms of a score and will have the discretion to overrule this and this will cover scores only, so square balls, penalties will still be down to human decision making.
However if it means the days of teams losing games due to valid scores not counting and vice versa it can surely only be a good thing.
How in god's name would Hawkeye help in these situations?
Not Hawkeye as such. Just that video replays are not being considered for any other contentious issues.
Quote from: rashCharacter on February 24, 2011, 03:15:52 AM
How will this work, will the system only be setup in Croke Park or in every county ground for championship matches?
If its used for a championship match in Croke Park then the same rules must apply to every championship match.
I think this will go the same way as the video referee last year, the same rules must apply to every match regardless of whether it is live on Tv or subject to media analysis.
So do we have proper linesmen and umpires at every U-12 championship match??
The argument for resisting change like this on the basis that it has to be applied to every game equally is pure codswallop
QuoteGood to see the GAA giving this a go.
Referees will get an instant result in terms of a score and will have the discretion to overrule this and this will cover scores only, so square balls, penalties will still be down to human decision making.
However if it means the days of teams losing games due to valid scores not counting and vice versa it can surely only be a good thing.
How in god's name would Hawkeye help in these situations?
How would it not?
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 24, 2011, 11:25:44 PM
Quote from: rashCharacter on February 24, 2011, 03:15:52 AM
How will this work, will the system only be setup in Croke Park or in every county ground for championship matches?
If its used for a championship match in Croke Park then the same rules must apply to every championship match.
I think this will go the same way as the video referee last year, the same rules must apply to every match regardless of whether it is live on Tv or subject to media analysis.
So do we have proper linesmen and umpires at every U-12 championship match??
The argument for resisting change like this on the basis that it has to be applied to every game equally is pure codswallop
Holy god man, within reason. If they are going to use hawkeye in Crokepark for all AI championship games then its only fair that all teams competing in that competition are afforded the same facilities, the same with the use of video evidence last year where Mickey Harte was right to complain that his team was being harshly treated due to the fact that a lot of their games were televised and worse went on in games that weren't televised yet the CCCCCC took no action.
Quote from: under the bar on February 24, 2011, 11:51:11 PM
QuoteGood to see the GAA giving this a go.
Referees will get an instant result in terms of a score and will have the discretion to overrule this and this will cover scores only, so square balls, penalties will still be down to human decision making.
However if it means the days of teams losing games due to valid scores not counting and vice versa it can surely only be a good thing.
How in god's name would Hawkeye help in these situations?
How would it not?
The problem I have with video replays is that it creates a hierarchy of rules again. Take this scenario Team A are playing Team B. Team A's full forward takes a shot that hits the underside of the bar and bounces down. The umpires award a goal only for Hawkeye to say the ball didnt fully cross the line so the decision is overruled. Team B immediately attack from what i will assume is the resulting hop ball, they go up the pitch and lob a high ball into the square where their full forward is standing because the referee is following the flight of the ball he fails to spot the attacker is in the small square. The full forward then finishes the ball to the net. Again an invalid goal is awarded this time however their is no recourse to technology for the team that is wronged.
I think the use of Hawk Eye is going to put more pressure on the referee and result in wronged teams feeling even more aggrieved that they currently.
At at time when the country is in a deep recession why the GAA feels the need to introduce more expense in the hosting of what are amatuer games is beyond me. Have a bit of sense
QuoteThe problem I have with video replays is that it creates a hierarchy of rules again. Take this scenario Team A are playing Team B. Team A's full forward takes a shot that hits the underside of the bar and bounces down. The umpires award a goal only for Hawkeye to say the ball didnt fully cross the line so the decision is overruled. Team B immediately attack from what i will assume is the resulting hop ball, they go up the pitch and lob a high ball into the square where their full forward is standing because the referee is following the flight of the ball he fails to spot the attacker is in the small square. The full forward then finishes the ball to the net. Again an invalid goal is awarded this time however their is no recourse to technology for the team that is wronged.
I think the use of Hawk Eye is going to put more pressure on the referee and result in wronged teams feeling even more aggrieved that they currently.
I wouldn't accept that argument at all, surely it is better to get one decision right than two wrong? Regardless of the rules you implement you can always come up with a 'what if' situation where people can rightfully feel aggrieved. That doesn't mean we should avoid change, Hawkeye can help refs and ensure that scores are legitimate or not.
QuoteHoly god man, within reason. If they are going to use hawkeye in Crokepark for all AI championship games then its only fair that all teams competing in that competition are afforded the same facilities, the same with the use of video evidence last year where Mickey Harte was right to complain that his team was being harshly treated due to the fact that a lot of their games were televised and worse went on in games that weren't televised yet the CCCCCC took no action.
Mickey Harte was talking nonsense then. If you accept that argument then the same ref, linesmen and umpires would have to take control of every game if we are to afford the same 'facilities' to all teams. Why shouldn't we use Hawkeye in Croke Park if it can ensure a score is legitimate even if it isn't anywhere else? If you play club or university level football you might not have any umpires (or linesmen) and if you do they are often from the teams involved, yet other games at that level do have the full compliment of officials, should we therefore play none of these games unless all are played under the same level of officiating?
QuoteAt at time when the country is in a deep recession why the GAA feels the need to introduce more expense in the hosting of what are amatuer games is beyond me. Have a bit of sense
Should we just have refs at IC games to save a few pound? If the games being amateur means that we shouldn't concern ourselves with getting important decisions right and the recession means we need to cut costs then just get rid of umpires and linesmen and let team subs or officials do the job.
Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2011, 10:09:09 AM
QuoteAt at time when the country is in a deep recession why the GAA feels the need to introduce more expense in the hosting of what are amatuer games is beyond me. Have a bit of sense
Should we just have refs at IC games to save a few pound? If the games being amateur means that we shouldn't concern ourselves with getting important decisions right and the recession means we need to cut costs then just get rid of umpires and linesmen and let team subs or officials do the job.
:-\
In a recession especially you show that you make do with what you have without going to extra expense. They should in principle be making do rather than throwing money at technoligies we don't "really" need (unlike referees)
Agreed hawkeye is unneccessary in an amateur game, I think we need to eliminating expense not adding to them. Would it even have made a difference in the Leinster final last year if fouls are not an issue.
Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2011, 10:09:09 AM
QuoteThe problem I have with video replays is that it creates a hierarchy of rules again. Take this scenario Team A are playing Team B. Team A's full forward takes a shot that hits the underside of the bar and bounces down. The umpires award a goal only for Hawkeye to say the ball didnt fully cross the line so the decision is overruled. Team B immediately attack from what i will assume is the resulting hop ball, they go up the pitch and lob a high ball into the square where their full forward is standing because the referee is following the flight of the ball he fails to spot the attacker is in the small square. The full forward then finishes the ball to the net. Again an invalid goal is awarded this time however their is no recourse to technology for the team that is wronged.
I think the use of Hawk Eye is going to put more pressure on the referee and result in wronged teams feeling even more aggrieved that they currently.
I wouldn't accept that argument at all, surely it is better to get one decision right than two wrong? Regardless of the rules you implement you can always come up with a 'what if' situation where people can rightfully feel aggrieved. That doesn't mean we should avoid change, Hawkeye can help refs and ensure that scores are legitimate or not.
.
I accept your point about making only one mistake but Im not with you at all that Hawkeye can help ensure scores are legitimate, it can certainly tell when they are not but thats all and to that regard its use would for me create a hierarchy of rules. Its implementation to me at least basically says its more important to know whether the whole of a ball was inside the whole of a post than it is to know if there was a foul in the build up to score or it is to know the ball was thrown over the bar. I dont think its fair within the rules to create this hierarchy.
I presume too there would be no need for umpires anymore if these trials are a success?
QuoteI accept your point about making only one mistake but Im not with you at all that Hawkeye can help ensure scores are legitimate, it can certainly tell when they are not but thats all and to that regard its use would for me create a hierarchy of rules. Its implementation to me at least basically says its more important to know whether the whole of a ball was inside the whole of a post than it is to know if there was a foul in the build up to score or it is to know the ball was thrown over the bar. I dont think its fair within the rules to create this hierarchy.
But the point is we have technology that eradicate one area of doubt, i.e. did the ball go between the posts/over the line while we have no choice but to accept that refs may get it wrong in the build up to the score. What is wrong with solving one issue while accepting that faults also exist elsewhere?
QuoteIn a recession especially you show that you make do with what you have without going to extra expense.
No you don't. You cut your cloth to measure, if the GAA can afford to install Hawkeye then let them. Of course the money could be spent elsewhere but getting important decisions, like the legitimacy of scores, is important and deserving of some investment.
QuoteThey should in principle be making do rather than throwing money at technoligies we don't "really" need
We don't 'really' need cars, microwaves, houses, phones and many other things but they all add to the quality of life. Hawkeye would make the job of the ref easier, reduce the incidents where he or his umpires are abused over a contentious score and reduce the likelihood of a team winning/losing unfairly.
Im just of the opinion that if we cant use it for all decisions of fact then we shouldn't use it for any because what I feel will happen is by eradicating these potential errors we will emphasise the effect of other errors of fact made by referees and we are saying the most important aspect of a point is did the ball actually go over the bar.
I think installing and running Hawkeye in Croke Park is free gratis. But just before any Hawkeye replay is shown, a 3 second advert will run on the screen, and Hawkeye will take the advertising revenues.
Alternatively we can pay for it, and keep the advertising revenues for ourselves.
I remember reading that in the tennis Wimbledon choose to pay Hawkeye a fee because the income from the advertising on the replays far outweighs the Hawkeye fee.
How long before someone uses the term "cost neutral" to describe hawkeye.
I would have thought that the most important decisions are in relation to square balls. How often is a point ruled wide or a legit goal not allowed - maybe once or twice a year? Square ball mishaps happen 4/5 times a year and in fairness to the Refs it is a tough rule to get right. Hawkeye for points doesn't make much sense to me with two umpires on either side of the goal, it being their job to see whether it went over or not.
You mustn't watch much footbal or hurling in a year if you think it happens once or twice a year. Sure there was two disputed points in the Dublin/Kerry league game, the disputed point is far more common than disputed square balls. Again I'll make the point, we can solve the the disputed score issue with Hawkeye, the square ball can be resolved using a cameras like in rugby. I don't see any reason we can't use both and see no problem in eradicating these disputes from the game even if it means that we must still accept that refs may have missed fouls in teh build up to the disputed scores/square balls. Better again we could use Hawkeye and change the square ball rule.
Quote from: Zulu on March 03, 2011, 01:52:55 PM
You mustn't watch much footbal or hurling in a year if you think it happens once or twice a year. Sure there was two disputed points in the Dublin/Kerry league game, the disputed point is far more common than disputed square balls. Again I'll make the point, we can solve the the disputed score issue with Hawkeye, the square ball can be resolved using a cameras like in rugby. I don't see any reason we can't use both and see no problem in eradicating these disputes from the game even if it means that we must still accept that refs may have missed fouls in teh build up to the disputed scores/square balls. Better again we could use Hawkeye and change the square ball rule.
I disagree, disputed points are pretty rare. Anyway, even if they are more common, square balls usually lead to goals, which are obviously far more significant, so more focus should be getting those decisions right. But I agree that an attempt should be made to have a review of both.
It has already been stated that hawkeye would be provided free, so the argument that we can't afford it is out. It will show 100% if the ball is over the bar/line....these two points combined makes this a no brainer. We should embrace this technology, and show the biggest sport in the world (soccer, who refuse to even pilot it) how it's done. Like the smoking ban in this country, we can for once be ahead of our time and show professionalism and foresite, by at the very least, trying this out.
How will the company make any money though?
How often is thing thing going to be used?
We'll have entire games where it's not needed and thus will generate no advertising revenue.
I think we'll need a proper statement of the rules, to start with, if we're bent on introducing precision to GAAdom for the first time.
At the moment, I don't think anyone knows the definition of "over the line". I don't think it's in the official guide, anyway. Is it all of the ball over all of the line or any part of the ball touching any part of the line or somewhere in between? Cyclops will be picky about these things.
If there's to be a drive for precision, I'd like to make the case for a change from timekeeping as a creative art practised by referees to the idea of time as a mathematical concept. I know Einstein said it's relative, but he wan't talking about refs deciding when they'll blow the final whistle on the basis of where the ball is on the pitch rather than what the clock says.
I dunno lads.
Seems like we're using a sledgehammer to crack a nut here.
Quote from: Hardy on March 30, 2011, 11:42:06 AM
I think we'll need a proper statement of the rules, to start with, if we're bent on introducing precision to GAAdom for the first time.
At the moment, I don't think anyone knows the definition of "over the line". I don't think it's in the official guide, anyway. Is it all of the ball over all of the line or any part of the ball touching any part of the line or somewhere in between? Cyclops will be picky about these things.
If there's to be a drive for precision, I'd like to make the case for a change from timekeeping as a creative art practised by referees to the idea of time as a mathematical concept. I know Einstein said it's relative, but he wan't talking about refs deciding when they'll blow the final whistle on the basis of where the ball is on the pitch rather than what the clock says.
Great post :D and many a Louth man would agree
Quote from: Hardy on March 30, 2011, 11:42:06 AM
I think we'll need a proper statement of the rules, to start with, if we're bent on introducing precision to GAAdom for the first time.
At the moment, I don't think anyone knows the definition of "over the line". I don't think it's in the official guide, anyway. Is it all of the ball over all of the line or any part of the ball touching any part of the line or somewhere in between? Cyclops will be picky about these things.
If there's to be a drive for precision, I'd like to make the case for a change from timekeeping as a creative art practised by referees to the idea of time as a mathematical concept. I know Einstein said it's relative, but he wan't talking about refs deciding when they'll blow the final whistle on the basis of where the ball is on the pitch rather than what the clock says.
In fairness Hardy, is the rule not 'a minimum of' as opposed to an absolute injury-time period?
Therefore it is inherently at the referees discretion when to blow up.
I wasn't thinking about added-on time of itself, Jinxy. I understand and agree with the "minimum of" stipulation, though that's abused, too, by feigned injuries and tactical substitutions that are never properly timed by the ref.
My reference to the position of the ball was about the unwritten rule that you can never blow when a team is attacking (in case they'd get a score, presumably) whether time is actually up or not.
Does hawkeye "need eyes on the back of its head" to see thon full back hit the full forward a chop. We say it often about referees.
Quote from: Hardy on March 30, 2011, 02:09:06 PM
I wasn't thinking about added-on time of itself, Jinxy. I understand and agree with the "minimum of" stipulation, though that's abused, too, by feigned injuries and tactical substitutions that are never properly timed by the ref.
My reference to the position of the ball was about the unwritten rule that you can never blow when a team is attacking (in case they'd get a score, presumably) whether time is actually up or not.
I thought the rulle in Meath was never blow when you're more than two yards from the gate?
The rule in Meath is never blow.
A bit too late for Wexford potentially.
The GAA's management committee looks set to make a firm decision next month about whether or not the association should pursue the use of score-detection technology.
As another controversy over the legitimacy of a score erupted over the weekend after Limerick's contested winner from an Ian Ryan free against Wexford in Portlaoise, the technology debate was brought back into sharp focus once more.
The use of the technology has been in the pipeline since negotiations with Hawk Eye began last year, and now a firm decision on whether or not the experiment should proceed to a more formal footing is in the hands of management.
Cost is a huge issue, however, if the GAA are to roll it out across every championship venue over a particular weekend.
It is believed that a proposal to use the technology at Croke Park only may be put before management by the research committee who are liaising with Hawk Eye on the basis that a start must be made somewhere.
The same committee has already proposed that the height of the two uprights be raised to at least 13 metres from a current height of 10.69 metres.
Ryan's late free went over the upright, making it difficult to determine if it was a legitimate score.
One umpire, the former Longford referee Pat O'Toole, waved a wide but his fellow umpire insisted it was a score.
Speaking in Dublin yesterday, Kildare manager Kieran McGeeney said such decisions will continue to ruin games as long as there is no sufficient back-up for officials.
- Colm Keys
This is such bullshit.
Forget about Hawkeye.
It is not feasible and more to the point it is not even necessary.
HERE is the simple solution.
http://www.goalpostireland.com/ (http://www.goalpostireland.com/)
Surely this would have the same problems we currently face when the ball goes higher than the net ?
Quote from: under the bar on February 24, 2011, 11:51:11 PM
QuoteGood to see the GAA giving this a go.
Referees will get an instant result in terms of a score and will have the discretion to overrule this and this will cover scores only, so square balls, penalties will still be down to human decision making.
However if it means the days of teams losing games due to valid scores not counting and vice versa it can surely only be a good thing.
How in god's name would Hawkeye help in these situations?
How would it not?
If Hawkeye is installed it will flash green if it passes over the bar/line and red otherwise.
It's a computer program that won't rule on square balls, fellas falling over in the box or otherwise.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 27, 2011, 01:09:48 AM
Surely this would have the same problems we currently face when the ball goes higher than the net ?
Make the posts higher then.
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
Is Hawkeye going to be installed in every county ground in the country? How much is this going to cost and my understanding of hawkeye from tennis and cricket is that it isn't a matter of a light going on and off, that it requires someone to operate it and run the analysis to get the result.
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
The goalposts linked by Jinxy would be a better solution. They're 16m, normally posts are 11m and croker posts are 13m. At 16m they're 15ft higher than most county grounds posts, that'd take almost all of the balls which are currently higher than the posts out (certainly in football anyway?). The best thing about these is that they should be affordable by most clubs and certainly by every county.
Long term maintenance could be an issue, any other major drawbacks??
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
Tell me how Hawkeye will work in a a football/hurling scenario and tell me how it is a better option than simply installing side-nets, which can easily be done in every pitch in the country.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
Tell me how Hawkeye will work in a a football/hurling scenario and tell me how it is a better option than simply installing side-nets, which can easily be done in every pitch in the country.
I agree. Hawkeye normally involves the ball making contact with something - tennis, the court with clearly defined lines; Cricket, the wicket with clearly defined stumps - in football the ball may not hit anything bar a players boot.
Make posts a standard height - more than at present and put side nets on, may not be perfect but it'll help greatly.
To be honest I think there is a section within the GAA who would only love to show how modern we are by installing Hawkeye in Croke Park.
However, Croke Park is just one pitch among hundreds.
Hawkeye can only be implemented at intercounty level but even that is not without significant problems.
Think of all the stadiums around the country that will get one championship game some years and no championship games in other years.
Can Hawkeye be installed a few days beforehand and then dismantled?
Does it have to be left in situ?
Who will maintain the necessary equipment?
It is a classic example of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
To be honest, I think the simple and most obvious solution i.e. the side-nets, is too low-tech and low-brow for some.
The whole thing is ridiculous.
Afaik the tennis and Cricket crowd just do that for show, the decision is actually immediate. Club grounds don't need hawkeye so I don't think that should be part of the discussion. If sponsorship can cover the cost or at least make the difference in cost between the two options minimal then why not go with a proven technology that doesn't involve unsightly nets and may not be suitable for some hurling shots? In addition, many county grounds are used by county teams for training and club games, therefore maintaining the nets may be more costly than initially thought.
Not sure I understand your question jinxy, but as I understand it, if the ball goes between the posts, regardless of height, there is an immediate signal whether it is a score or not and this can be relayed to the ref immediately. The trial went well so it must work without having to hit something and afaik it can be installed and dismantled in grounds when needed.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
Tell me how Hawkeye will work in a a football/hurling scenario and tell me how it is a better option than simply installing side-nets, which can easily be done in every pitch in the country.
Well for a start we installed the side nets on our brand new pitch and "they're a great job, blah blah blah". Yeah sure didn't the wind get up and pull the posts at least a further metre apart each! We soon got rid of them!
If Hawkeye is tried and tested in other sports then go for it I say. Even if we only have limited use of it sure at least we're trying to improve the situation. I can't see why Hawkeye couldn't be installed in every County Ground for Inter County football and Hurling games then at least every Championship game in Football and Hurling would be covered.
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2011, 11:31:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
Tell me how Hawkeye will work in a a football/hurling scenario and tell me how it is a better option than simply installing side-nets, which can easily be done in every pitch in the country.
Well for a start we installed the side nets on our brand new pitch and "they're a great job, blah blah blah". Yeah sure didn't the wind get up and pull the posts at least a further metre apart each! We soon got rid of them!
If Hawkeye is tried and tested in other sports then go for it I say. Even if we only have limited use of it sure at least we're trying to improve the situation. I can't see why Hawkeye couldn't be installed in every County Ground for Inter County football and Hurling games then at least every Championship game in Football and Hurling would be covered.
That's an engineering issue.
One that I'd imagine can be fixed pretty easily.
Much more easily than installing high-speed cameras for Hawkeye.
Zulu, the key point in what you said about Hawkeye was it will definitively tell us if the ball has gone 'between' the posts.
This would obviously necessitate increasing the height of the posts anyway as much of the borderline calls are above the existing post height.
Quote from: screenexile on July 27, 2011, 11:31:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Hawkeye is the best solution here, sponsorship could cover most if not all the cost, a decision would be immediate and indisputable (afaik) so why not go for it?
Tell me how Hawkeye will work in a a football/hurling scenario and tell me how it is a better option than simply installing side-nets, which can easily be done in every pitch in the country.
Well for a start we installed the side nets on our brand new pitch and "they're a great job, blah blah blah". Yeah sure didn't the wind get up and pull the posts at least a further metre apart each! We soon got rid of them!
what happened exactly? Were these posts from the lads linked to by Jinxy? What height were they? As Jinxy said though, it couldn't be that hard to fix?
My understanding is that hawkeye will tell us if the ball was between the posts regardless of the height of the ball, therefore the posts are fine as they are.
This is from yestardays IT (Gavin Cummiskey).
'It is at this two-day gathering in Croke Park that the GAA research committee, chaired by Seán Donnelly from Kilmacud Crokes, will present their recommendations with regards to the introduction of Hawkeye and other recently-trialled measures.
Following a consistent flow of controversial decisions, which includes Joe Sheridan's goal for Meath in last year's Leinster football final and Graham Geraghty's disallowed effort for Meath against Kildare in June, the issue resurfaced in injury time at O'Moore Park on Saturday night.'
How would Hawkeye have prevented the Joe Sheridan incident?
Or the Graham Geraghty incident?
Or the Benny Coulter incident?
I see the GPA have thrown their full backing behind Hawkeye even if it may only be used in Croke Park due to the prohibitive cost.
What sort of a half-arsed solution is that?
Have people in this country completely lost the ability to think for themselves?
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 12:00:13 PM
My understanding is that hawkeye will tell us if the ball was between the posts regardless of the height of the ball, therefore the posts are fine as they are.
So then it is extrapolating from the balls flight path with no visual point of reference such as an actual post or a tram line in tennis.
The system is not infallible you know Zulu, there is a margin of error.
I'd imagine that margin of error increases when you factor in wind which isn't a major issue in tennis and cricket.
If in the qualifiers there are football and hurling matches on - maybe 10-12 at the height of the season and only a couple of these played in Croke Park, this means we would need at least 12 hawkeye kits to be in place at all these grounds. I'm sure this wouldn't come cheap? What about the NFL and NHL. Can be 20 games on at a weekend. 20 Hawkeye kits and operators. Some of the Div 4 gates would hardly cover the cost of installing and operating it.
Talk of sponsoring them??? I'm not sure someone will pay to put their name to it when the thing might be used once in a run of maybe 10/12 games. Where is their exposure and why would someone sponsor Hawkeye rather than something else.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 12:01:01 PM
This is from yestardays IT (Gavin Cummiskey).
'It is at this two-day gathering in Croke Park that the GAA research committee, chaired by Seán Donnelly from Kilmacud Crokes, will present their recommendations with regards to the introduction of Hawkeye and other recently-trialled measures.
Following a consistent flow of controversial decisions, which includes Joe Sheridan's goal for Meath in last year's Leinster football final and Graham Geraghty's disallowed effort for Meath against Kildare in June, the issue resurfaced in injury time at O'Moore Park on Saturday night.'
How would Hawkeye have prevented the Joe Sheridan incident?
Or the Graham Geraghty incident?
Or the Benny Coulter incident?
It wouldn't have prevented or make any 'call' on the above incidents.
As heffo says it wouldn't help in any of those situations but that's irrelevant as nobody is saying it would help there.
I'm not 100% sure how hawkeye actually works but I haven't heard anyone suggest there is any significant issues with it, if there is I might revise my opinion.
I don't think it needs to be used during the national league, at least for the moment, as those games are not vital to a players season.
Like I said if the cost of using hawkeye is not prohibitive and there are no major issues with it's accuracy then why not give it a go?
Zulu, the games that Hawkeye is currently used in are as far removed from Gaelic games as you can get.
Cricket and tennis are perfect for this kind of technology.
I don't think it is suited to Gaelic games for the reasons I've previously stated.
I think there is a simpler, more effective option that eliminates the cost issue and it can be applied at all levels of the game.
As for your assertion that nobody is claiming Hawkeye would help with square ball incidents etc., pretty much every media report on the subject has included references to Joe Sheridan and/or Benny Coulter.
People are so fed up with the incompetence of the match officials that if you told them you were bringing in a system involving trained pigeons sitting on top of each post that will only coo if the ball goes over, they'd think it would be an improvement.
Wind can be quite significant in tennis
Found this explanation from a poster on a tennis website:
QuoteThe actual Hawkeye system uses a predictive algorithm to guess where the ball should be during the next measurement sample. If the ball deviates from this, it takes into account the deviation during the next prediction. From using a series of samples, it is possible to compensate for varying trajectories due to spin or wind. Gusty wind conditions may affect accuracy somewhat if the ball location changes are sudden and extreme, but I don't think that any condition that is playable would be outside the capabilities of the system, and if it were they would just have to increase the sampling rate and throw some more CPU cycles at it.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 12:35:07 PM
People are so fed up with the incompetence of the match officials that if you told them you were bringing in a system involving trained pigeons sitting on top of each post that will only coo if the ball goes over, they'd think it would be an improvement.
There has to be a hamster-based solution.
Jinxy it appears we'll have to agree to disagree here but the only reasonable objection that I can see is cost, if that isn't an issue then it should be used IMO.
As for media reports referencing Joe Sheridan etc. well that's just nonsense from media sources. Use hawkeye to sort disputed points and whether balls went over the line for goals. Change the square ball rule, the one used in last years league seems like a good one, and demand higher standards from refs. We can't get everything right but we can get something's right and that's an improvement worth making.
Hawkeye for Croke Park as it has the big screens to show replays (I know you don't strictly need the screens, but like in tennis and cricket it would be a way of getting someone to sponsor it).
The nets for other county grounds
Okay, that would give Croke Park a slightly better standard of officiating, but you could say the same about every game Pat McEnenany refs.
Quote from: Hardy on July 27, 2011, 12:48:19 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 12:35:07 PM
People are so fed up with the incompetence of the match officials that if you told them you were bringing in a system involving trained pigeons sitting on top of each post that will only coo if the ball goes over, they'd think it would be an improvement.
There has to be a hamster-based solution.
HamsterEye.
I think every club should have the side nets at the very least.
Give both a trial run in the league so whichever suits the games, the practicality and cost go with it.
Why not put a horizontal post beween the top of the posts, make posts a certain height, fair bit taller than now and if it goes over that then its no score. A simple plank of wood would stop the bitchin. Id say we would need a second ref as a priority before hawkeye. If any of the top guys get motivated to support hawkeye though it could happen fairly quickly.
While we on easy solutions, why not either change the colour of the posts or ball, so that one differs from the other. May be a case of a bit of dedate to get suitable colours that don't clash with many other things but for arguments sake it could work.
I'd make the top half of each post black to give a bit of contrast.
Quote from: snippets on July 27, 2011, 02:31:38 PM
Why not put a horizontal post beween the top of the posts, make posts a certain height, fair bit taller than now and if it goes over that then its no score.
That would constitute a change in the scoring rules themselves: there's enough wrangling over how to capture what currently constitutes a score, never mind the messing with the scoring rules!
Im not for the implementation of Hawkeye as I explained earlier but I don't like the idea of the side posts either as I think whilst they may reduce the number of incidents we get we won't eliminate them and it would be expensive to implement them at all games.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 27, 2011, 04:34:33 PM
Im not for the implementation of Hawkeye as I explained earlier but I don't like the idea of the side posts either as I think whilst they may reduce the number of incidents we get we won't eliminate them and it would be expensive to implement them at all games.
No it wouldn't.
They're just nets.
Surely though thousands who be needed to replace all existing nets at all grounds. As I said earlier I am very opposed to the hierarchy of rules created by technology. All games should as close as possible be the same around the country.
So you think we shouldn't slove problems at the highest level because we can't do at the lowest levels. I may have you mixed up with someone else but I think you coach soccer at the lower levels. When I played soccer we never had linesmen, except for very big games like cup finals, so if you're consistent you must think that linesmen should be removed from every level?
Quote from: David McKeown on July 27, 2011, 05:01:51 PM
Surely though thousands who be needed to replace all existing nets at all grounds. As I said earlier I am very opposed to the hierarchy of rules created by technology. All games should as close as possible be the same around the country.
Clubs and counties would put them up themselves I'd imagine.
It could be subsidised by HQ.
It's not a massive operation.
get an Irish company to develop GAA goalposts with higher posts.
get them made from a strong polymer, like the wind turbine blades, so there isn't much swaying of the posts.
I dislike using technology at one ground, and not at another.
some umpires are simply not mobile enough to move quickly into the correct position to view the trajectory of shots.
if they are so intent on implementing technology then use a video ref for championship games.
scanners at all grounds and entrances so that a proper season ticket scheme can be introduced.
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 05:43:11 PM
So you think we shouldn't slove problems at the highest level because we can't do at the lowest levels. I may have you mixed up with someone else but I think you coach soccer at the lower levels. When I played soccer we never had linesmen, except for very big games like cup finals, so if you're consistent you must think that linesmen should be removed from every level?
No you are spot on I chair one of the largest youth leagues in the North and coach an under 12 team. What I meant is I don't want to see games that are supposed to be the same level being subject to different rules. For example in Armagh if Cross' pitch was to get the posts with sides nets then they should either be taken down for league games or all teams in Armagh should use them as they are all playing at the same level and should therefore all be subject to the same rules. It's slightly different for underage games.
Mick O'Dwyer on RTE tonight said we should have extra nets, hawkeye and video refs FFS.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 27, 2011, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 05:43:11 PM
So you think we shouldn't slove problems at the highest level because we can't do at the lowest levels. I may have you mixed up with someone else but I think you coach soccer at the lower levels. When I played soccer we never had linesmen, except for very big games like cup finals, so if you're consistent you must think that linesmen should be removed from every level?
No you are spot on I chair one of the largest youth leagues in the North and coach an under 12 team. What I meant is I don't want to see games that are supposed to be the same level being subject to different rules. For example in Armagh if Cross' pitch was to get the posts with sides nets then they should either be taken down for league games or all teams in Armagh should use them as they are all playing at the same level and should therefore all be subject to the same rules. It's slightly different for underage games.
David, every pitch in the country would have them.
They're just nets!
Perhaps we should use theidea of a second crossbar at the very top of the uprights so the umpires could get a better view, if the ball goes above the second crossbar 1/2 a point should be awarded and if the ball hits the 2nd crossbar and comes back into play it should be play on :P
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=152485 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=152485)
Irish indo reporting today that it would cost 500,000 per year to install hawkeye at championship venues.
Thats that then.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 27, 2011, 11:59:00 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 27, 2011, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: Zulu on July 27, 2011, 05:43:11 PM
So you think we shouldn't slove problems at the highest level because we can't do at the lowest levels. I may have you mixed up with someone else but I think you coach soccer at the lower levels. When I played soccer we never had linesmen, except for very big games like cup finals, so if you're consistent you must think that linesmen should be removed from every level?
No you are spot on I chair one of the largest youth leagues in the North and coach an under 12 team. What I meant is I don't want to see games that are supposed to be the same level being subject to different rules. For example in Armagh if Cross' pitch was to get the posts with sides nets then they should either be taken down for league games or all teams in Armagh should use them as they are all playing at the same level and should therefore all be subject to the same rules. It's slightly different for underage games.
David, every pitch in the country would have them.
They're just nets!
exactly, they're not a technological advance, they just help the referee and umpire determine if something was a score or not.
On the subject, do they even need the extra posts - sure could some sort of net not be thrown up between the (new higher) posts, if the ball's in it, it's a score, if not, then it's not. You could have some sort of a pulley system to throw these up for every game and therefore wind shouldn't be an issue.
If we can put a man on the moon we can figure out how to develop a reliable and effective netting system.
I hope this Hawkeye talk is well and truly buried now.
Remember, there is making sense and there is making GAA sense.
In that regard I reckon we should put the side nets on only one end of each field so that each team have a half to benefit of the ambiguity of the current system.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 28, 2011, 10:38:39 AM
I hope this Hawkeye talk is well and truly buried now.
So you're saying you're against this Hawkeye thing?
I'm leaning that way.
The GAA have announced that Hawk-Eye technology will be used on a two-year pilot basis for all Championship football and hurling games played in Croke Park from 2012.
A full review will be conducted at the end of the two-year period and the proposal is subject to Congress approval.
Oh my God.
Is that your nets manufacturing business fecked for the foreseeable then Jinxy? ;)
How much do you bet that the very first time there's a contentious square ball incident half the stadium will sit back and relax, safe in the knowledge that Hawkeye will sort it out.
"What's that you say? It doesn't adjudicate on square balls or Sheridan-esque wonder goals? It's costing a fckin fortune!"
The square ball controversies can be dealt with by going back to the change that was in the league a few years ago which the politburo at congress overturned.
Hawkeye is worth trialling for a few years, I'm sure costs have been weighed up. People say there have only been a few incidents of note but isn't it worth at least geting these right if it stops some county being beaten incorrectly.
I don't think the human mind can come up with technology that would prevent Joe Sheridan goals in fairness.
True.
He's just too good.
Umpire - "Did anyone switch that Hawkeye machine on?"
http://vimeo.com/48907347
Like dont forget even Joe Sheridan himself thought it was a goal.
Quote from: Orangemac on September 05, 2012, 09:59:30 PM
Umpire - "Did anyone switch that Hawkeye machine on?"
http://vimeo.com/48907347
there right to conduct further tests on hawkeye, to see what ijits might be prepred to invest. Could you imagine having a full time job testing hawkeyes suitability for Gaelic Games. Even Desire Farrell couldnt justify that one.
So, is this happening or what?
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2013, 03:08:37 PM
So, is this happening or what?
Making it's debut for Dubs 1st championship game
Save themselves some money and just get officials who can see.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 21, 2013, 04:08:28 PM
Save themselves some money and just get officials who can see.
Sure where's the fun in that, sure wont be be great for your next league game at home, when you have two 'neutral' umpires dragged from the crowd and if they disagree politely on a dubious pointed kicked from way out on the side line, the ref can turn to the big screen on the side of your club house and wait for Hawkeye's verdict, oh wait that's right........
Are the umpires in todays Championship games official county referees or just pals of the ref??
Quote from: heffo on March 21, 2013, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2013, 03:08:37 PM
So, is this happening or what?
Making it's debut for Dubs 1st championship game
What about Kildare v Offaly?
Got to see Hawkeye in action on Saturday in the Christy Ring final, Kerry had a free waved wide by the umpires, Kerry lad kicked up a fuss, although reports have it the Dicky Murphy in the review room flagged it to the referee who made the TV signal. low and behold up it came on the big screen and was indeed a point, wee lad asked me why they were showing tennis on the big screen :D
As the keeper was waiting to take the puck out, it didn't delay the game that long and I thought it worked well.
Pretty illuminating I thought. There were two instances there at the hurling I think? One was given wide and was a point, and the other vice versa.
That's 3 games, with two of them having incorrect calls overturned by Hawkeye.
Fairly indicative of what's probably happening in club games up and down the country.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 11, 2013, 10:58:34 AM
Got to see Hawkeye in action on Saturday in the Christy Ring final, Kerry had a free waved wide by the umpires, Kerry lad kicked up a fuss, although reports have it the Dicky Murphy in the review room flagged it to the referee who made the TV signal. low and behold up it came on the big screen and was indeed a point, wee lad asked me why they were showing tennis on the big screen :D
As the keeper was waiting to take the puck out, it didn't delay the game that long and I thought it worked well.
Glad to see the referee over-ruling the umpire.
I think Hawkeye is a great idea, but after the Dublin-Westmeath game I thought there was one glaring weakness - the umpires! They seemed to be still in control. It seemed they had to admit to being unsure before referring it to Hawkeye. There were two Glennon shots in particular that happened within a minute of each other - the first was given over, the second wide. Both were dubious in that they were very high and close to the upright, and there were small protests from Dublin fans behind the goal for the first and from Glennon for the second. Maybe the umpires were right, but I doubt they were certain.
Quote from: Hound on June 11, 2013, 11:28:38 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 11, 2013, 10:58:34 AM
Got to see Hawkeye in action on Saturday in the Christy Ring final, Kerry had a free waved wide by the umpires, Kerry lad kicked up a fuss, although reports have it the Dicky Murphy in the review room flagged it to the referee who made the TV signal. low and behold up it came on the big screen and was indeed a point, wee lad asked me why they were showing tennis on the big screen :D
As the keeper was waiting to take the puck out, it didn't delay the game that long and I thought it worked well.
Glad to see the referee over-ruling the umpire.
I think Hawkeye is a great idea, but after the Dublin-Westmeath game I thought there was one glaring weakness - the umpires! They seemed to be still in control. It seemed they had to admit to being unsure before referring it to Hawkeye. There were two Glennon shots in particular that happened within a minute of each other - the first was given over, the second wide. Both were dubious in that they were very high and close to the upright, and there were small protests from Dublin fans behind the goal for the first and from Glennon for the second. Maybe the umpires were right, but I doubt they were certain.
I think its a 'fourth official' or video ref who calls the ref..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/spoton-hawkeye-makes-winning-impression-29334632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/spoton-hawkeye-makes-winning-impression-29334632.html)
Quote from: johnneycool on June 11, 2013, 11:58:08 AM
I think its a 'fourth official' or video ref who calls the ref..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/spoton-hawkeye-makes-winning-impression-29334632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/spoton-hawkeye-makes-winning-impression-29334632.html)
That sounds to me like there were one or two wrong decisions in the football that the umpires didnt refer to hawkeye, so the 4th officials are now taking matters into their own hands. As McEneaney says, hopefully umpires will start doing the referring in future, but its good to know the 4th official should be at hand to tell the ref when the umpire gets it wrong but still says they're sure and refuse to refer.
Quote from: Hound on June 11, 2013, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 11, 2013, 11:58:08 AM
I think its a 'fourth official' or video ref who calls the ref..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/spoton-hawkeye-makes-winning-impression-29334632.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/spoton-hawkeye-makes-winning-impression-29334632.html)
That sounds to me like there were one or two wrong decisions in the football that the umpires didnt refer to hawkeye, so the 4th officials are now taking matters into their own hands. As McEneaney says, hopefully umpires will start doing the referring in future, but its good to know the 4th official should be at hand to tell the ref when the umpire gets it wrong but still says they're sure and refuse to refer.
It's not the 4th official but the "review official", who is sitting in the concrete bunker monitoring the Hawkeye software package, that communicates to the referee that an error has occurred. Every shot at the posts in the 70 plus minutes comes up on Hawkeye as a score or a miss. If there is a difference with what the umpire awards then the review official communicates to the referee that it's necessary to communicate with Hawkeye.
The one grey area with Hawkeye is that it judges anything above the posts on a calm day, i.e. the virtual extensions of the posts are stationary. If it's windy the ball might appear to be inside the virtual extension of the post but according to Hawkeye it would be outside or have dissected it. Hard to blame the umpire in this instance and the more of these cases the more the umpires will look to use Hawkeye I'd say. And who could blame them.
If it was there when that Morley hoor kicked the scoring wide back in 2004, we'd have been spared 'Marooned', and ye'd still know yer place in the Midlands pecking order, instead of usurping top spot!
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2013, 02:40:13 PM
If it was there when that Morley hoor kicked the scoring wide back in 2004, we'd have been spared 'Marooned', and ye'd still know yer place in the Midlands pecking order, instead of usurping top spot!
Go away you and your usurping. No need for Hawkeye in your own backyard when last we met. ;D
Will ye have a team at all for the backdoor? :P
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 11, 2013, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2013, 02:40:13 PM
If it was there when that Morley hoor kicked the scoring wide back in 2004, we'd have been spared 'Marooned', and ye'd still know yer place in the Midlands pecking order, instead of usurping top spot!
Go away you and your usurping. No need for Hawkeye in your own backyard when last we met. ;D
Will ye have a team at all for the backdoor? :P
Is it not time you changed your footnote there Croí?
Quote from: johnneycool on June 11, 2013, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 11, 2013, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2013, 02:40:13 PM
If it was there when that Morley hoor kicked the scoring wide back in 2004, we'd have been spared 'Marooned', and ye'd still know yer place in the Midlands pecking order, instead of usurping top spot!
Go away you and your usurping. No need for Hawkeye in your own backyard when last we met. ;D
Will ye have a team at all for the backdoor? :P
Is it not time you changed your footnote there Croí?
Still top of the pile http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christy_Ring_Cup&action=edit§ion=5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christy_Ring_Cup&action=edit§ion=5)
Now, Tipperary calling themselves the home of hurling.......
Aye, especially when just after driving through Urlingford and there's sign welcoming you to the home of hurling. The natives of Urlingford must have some snigger at that when they drive past it.
It seems they've got the implementation right, with all possibilities covered, as far as I can see. The umpires can call for Hawkeye if they're unsure, the refeee can call for it if he suspects the umpires' call was wrong and the "Review Official" can notify the referee if Hawkeye disagrees with the umpires' decision, even if play has continued.
It's all here. (http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1505131233-how-hawk-eye-scoring-technology-will-work/)
Am I the only one who is not impressed with Hawkeye? I can't understand why they would spend money creating a virtual image of Croke Park when you have eight cameras monitoring the fight of the ball. Graphics look so outdated-like a Commodore 64 game or something. Modern visual data acquisition is so powerful that I can't understand why they can't replay actual footage of the ball going over or wide, with virtual limits superimposed on that image.
Quote from: Whishtup on July 12, 2013, 07:49:50 AM
Am I the only one who is not impressed with Hawkeye? I can't understand why they would spend money creating a virtual image of Croke Park when you have eight cameras monitoring the fight of the ball. Graphics look so outdated-like a Commodore 64 game or something. Modern visual data acquisition is so powerful that I can't understand why they can't replay actual footage of the ball going over or wide, with virtual limits superimposed on that image.
The only thing that matters is that if it tells that the ball went wide or between the posts correctly. I don't give a shite what it looks like.
Won't be long now until we have the annual controversy over the Sunday Game theme music.
Quote from: Whishtup on July 12, 2013, 07:49:50 AM
Am I the only one who is not impressed with Hawkeye? I can't understand why they would spend money creating a virtual image of Croke Park when you have eight cameras monitoring the fight of the ball. Graphics look so outdated-like a Commodore 64 game or something. Modern visual data acquisition is so powerful that I can't understand why they can't replay actual footage of the ball going over or wide, with virtual limits superimposed on that image.
For the amount of times that it will actually be used, would it be worth the additional investment for frills like that?
Quote from: ballinaman on July 12, 2013, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on July 12, 2013, 07:49:50 AM
Am I the only one who is not impressed with Hawkeye? I can't understand why they would spend money creating a virtual image of Croke Park when you have eight cameras monitoring the fight of the ball. Graphics look so outdated-like a Commodore 64 game or something. Modern visual data acquisition is so powerful that I can't understand why they can't replay actual footage of the ball going over or wide, with virtual limits superimposed on that image.
The only thing that matters is that if it tells that the ball went wide or between the posts correctly. I don't give a shite what it looks like.
Agreed. I couldn't give a damn if they showed sponsored ads before and after the action simulation. Even if Hawkeye was to be used only once in, say, the closing seconds of an AI final when the game hung in the balance, it would have proved its worth.
I think Hawkeye is a brilliant addition to Croke Park. Last Sunday we had wides that were points and points that were wides overruled by Hawkeye. It's quick and definitive. Plus it might put an end to the practice of the keeper trying to influence the umpire to wave it wide. Only downside is we will have lads making that stupid box shape to the referee. Brian Gavin would want to keep his distance from Tommy Walsh if he starts that crack.
You run the risk of refs using it for the sake of using it too.
In the first half of the Dublin Kildare game there was a clear wide, at least 3 feet outside the post and the ref went to Hawkeye.
Not one person in the ground though it went over.
The consensus around me was the ref was only dying to use it.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2013, 03:46:41 PM
You run the risk of refs using it for the sake of using it too.
In the first half of the Dublin Kildare game there was a clear wide, at least 3 feet outside the post and the ref went to Hawkeye.
Not one person in the ground though it went over.
The consensus around me was the ref was only dying to use it.
Yeah i though that myself he couldn't wait to get a go at it, it's not as if it was even close to a score.
That will pass too.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2013, 03:46:41 PM
You run the risk of refs using it for the sake of using it too.
In the first half of the Dublin Kildare game there was a clear wide, at least 3 feet outside the post and the ref went to Hawkeye.
Not one person in the ground though it went over.
The consensus around me was the ref was only dying to use it.
The ref was dead right. I think anybody with a bit of sense would have done the same if they were in his place.
That ball was wide and the ref knew this but he wanted to see Hawkeye in action in case he'd have to use it later for real.
Quote from: Tubberman on July 12, 2013, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on July 12, 2013, 07:49:50 AM
Am I the only one who is not impressed with Hawkeye? I can't understand why they would spend money creating a virtual image of Croke Park when you have eight cameras monitoring the fight of the ball. Graphics look so outdated-like a Commodore 64 game or something. Modern visual data acquisition is so powerful that I can't understand why they can't replay actual footage of the ball going over or wide, with virtual limits superimposed on that image.
For the amount of times that it will actually be used, would it be worth the additional investment for frills like that?
How much did it cost? Surely it cost a load to pay programmers to produce the 3d graphical images of Croker? I just think that unless we are looking at the real thing there is always the margin for error-cameras losing position, equipment going out of calibration, etc.
If the rotating image is the equivalent of reality then it must be easier to use the actual image. There could be a plausible reason for not using the actual image-any techies out there?
Quote from: Hardy on June 11, 2013, 03:44:49 PM
It seems they've got the implementation right, with all possibilities covered, as far as I can see. The umpires can call for Hawkeye if they're unsure, the refeee can call for it if he suspects the umpires' call was wrong and the "Review Official" can notify the referee if Hawkeye disagrees with the umpires' decision, even if play has continued.
It's all here. (http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1505131233-how-hawk-eye-scoring-technology-will-work/)
So is the umpire pointless?
;)
Quote from: western exile on July 13, 2013, 01:10:14 AM
Quote from: Hardy on June 11, 2013, 03:44:49 PM
It seems they've got the implementation right, with all possibilities covered, as far as I can see. The umpires can call for Hawkeye if they're unsure, the refeee can call for it if he suspects the umpires' call was wrong and the "Review Official" can notify the referee if Hawkeye disagrees with the umpires' decision, even if play has continued.
It's all here. (http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1505131233-how-hawk-eye-scoring-technology-will-work/)
So is the umpire pointless?
;)
Always was. What we need now is referee replacement technology that can detect the "grabbing the arm" cheat.
Use of hawkeye suspended in CP today due to inconsistencies.
Quote from: Zulu on August 18, 2013, 02:31:03 PM
Use of hawkeye suspended in CP today due to inconsistencies.
There will be some craic if Limerick minors draw or lose by a point.
It must be a big knock to Hawkeye's confidence to be subbed out so early on such a big day.
Quote from: Whishtup on July 12, 2013, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on July 12, 2013, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on July 12, 2013, 07:49:50 AM
Am I the only one who is not impressed with Hawkeye? I can't understand why they would spend money creating a virtual image of Croke Park when you have eight cameras monitoring the fight of the ball. Graphics look so outdated-like a Commodore 64 game or something. Modern visual data acquisition is so powerful that I can't understand why they can't replay actual footage of the ball going over or wide, with virtual limits superimposed on that image.
For the amount of times that it will actually be used, would it be worth the additional investment for frills like that?
How much did it cost? Surely it cost a load to pay programmers to produce the 3d graphical images of Croker? I just think that unless we are looking at the real thing there is always the margin for error-cameras losing position, equipment going out of calibration, etc.
If the rotating image is the equivalent of reality then it must be easier to use the actual image. There could be a plausible reason for not using the actual image-any techies out there?
Only a matter of time...
Quote from: omagh_gael on August 18, 2013, 02:37:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 18, 2013, 02:31:03 PM
Use of hawkeye suspended in CP today due to inconsistencies.
There will be some craic if Limerick minors draw or lose by a point.
Well they drew and lost in extra-time but the ref must have had the Hawkeye error in mind when he gave Limerick the last free at the end of normal time.
Many of us IT people on gaaboard will be tut-tutting at this.
Do they not do tests before the start of big matches? I suspect someone accidentally kicked something and knocked the whole kip and kaboodle out of whack. It isnt the first time such a thing happened. Remember the Hubble telescope 'oops' moment?
I've seen it happen at tennis tournaments were Hawkeye can be suspended. Though I think that this could merely be a graphic error, in that the technology itself was giving the correct result (i.e. showing the ball go through the posts), but it was in the relaying of it that the error occurred. It might just be someone with an itchy finger pressing the wrong button. They need to get protocols in place for this (if there is an operator in place with this kit there should a radio comms link with the ref).
Anyone who has been watching the Ashes this season can see the problems that over reliance on technology can cause ( and I'm speaking as someone who would have been gung ho for it to be used) I see there is controversy in the senior game over a point allowed to Limerick. Anyone have a tin opener for this can of worms?
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 18, 2013, 05:06:46 PM
I've seen it happen at tennis tournaments were Hawkeye can be suspended. Though I think that this could merely be a graphic error, in that the technology itself was giving the correct result (i.e. showing the ball go through the posts), but it was in the relaying of it that the error occurred. It might just be someone with an itchy finger pressing the wrong button. They need to get protocols in place for this (if there is an operator in place with this kit there should a radio comms link with the ref).
Anyone who has been watching the Ashes this season can see the problems that over reliance on technology can cause ( and I'm speaking as someone who would have been gung ho for it to be used) I see there is controversy in the senior game over a point allowed to Limerick. Anyone have a tin opener for this can of worms?
They're surely not using human intervention to make the final call? Vision system sofware is so highly advanced these days that you can track an object of any colour using blob analysis and neural networks. Look at what you can do with a Kinect. The graphical display and result is a sham to make us think that the decision is automated-it clearly isn't. The graphical display is also poor by modern standards. There were several contentious points in the minor game today so it is a pretty important requirement for hurling...
Quote from: Whishtup on August 18, 2013, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 18, 2013, 05:06:46 PM
I've seen it happen at tennis tournaments were Hawkeye can be suspended. Though I think that this could merely be a graphic error, in that the technology itself was giving the correct result (i.e. showing the ball go through the posts), but it was in the relaying of it that the error occurred. It might just be someone with an itchy finger pressing the wrong button. They need to get protocols in place for this (if there is an operator in place with this kit there should a radio comms link with the ref).
Anyone who has been watching the Ashes this season can see the problems that over reliance on technology can cause ( and I'm speaking as someone who would have been gung ho for it to be used) I see there is controversy in the senior game over a point allowed to Limerick. Anyone have a tin opener for this can of worms?
They're surely not using human intervention to make the final call? Vision system sofware is so highly advanced these days that you can track an object of any colour using blob analysis and neural networks. Look at what you can do with a Kinect. The graphical display and result is a sham to make us think that the decision is automated-it clearly isn't. The graphical display is also poor by modern standards. There were several contentious points in the minor game today so it is a pretty important requirement for hurling...
I've a fair bit of knowledge on vision system and sensors through work and this hawkeye seems to be the most over engineered method possible to do this job. Seems more interested in aesthetics and fancy graphics than being a cost effective solution. Anyway, the first things that should have been done, before this Hawkeye nonsense is as follows...
Make goalposts 10 feet higher.
Paint goal posts black or blue (anything but white) or use a black/blue football
Use normal TV playback to determine any dodgy ones.
I bet that would clarify 95% of cases for a fraction of 250k.
I've always thought that a combined image from two cameras just above the angle the crossbar, with the limit of their field of view perfectly in line with the upright (looking up into the sky, slightly facing each other) would tell a lot of scores.
For error like that i think a replay should be offered.
I think so-near the end of full time Galway got a point that a working hawkeye may have judged wide, too.
Whole project should be abandoned now, once it wasn't available in ALL grounds it should never been allowed in Croke Park . Only done to pamper critics and journalists . Shame that it happened in a minor game as more than likely it will be forgotten in a couple of days ,but had it happened in the senior game the s**t would have hit the fan. Don't know if anyone questioned Clare's goal but on the live showing and replay I can't figure out how it ended up in the net .
Limerick defender either tapped it with his foot or edge of the hurl, as he was coming in, it went underneath the keeper and into the net, own goal!!
I have a feeling its not working and a second feeling that the Croke Park/GPA guys behind it will make it work, even though it dosent work really.
Quote from: The Insider on August 18, 2013, 11:25:22 PM
Shame that it happened in a minor game as more than likely it will be forgotten in a couple of days ,but had it happened in the senior game the s**t would have hit the fan.
Good point. I've been wondering why there isn't a bigger stink over this, but it's not every year I have skin in the outcome of a Minor semi-final.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on August 18, 2013, 07:56:36 PM
Quote from: Whishtup on August 18, 2013, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 18, 2013, 05:06:46 PM
I've seen it happen at tennis tournaments were Hawkeye can be suspended. Though I think that this could merely be a graphic error, in that the technology itself was giving the correct result (i.e. showing the ball go through the posts), but it was in the relaying of it that the error occurred. It might just be someone with an itchy finger pressing the wrong button. They need to get protocols in place for this (if there is an operator in place with this kit there should a radio comms link with the ref).
Anyone who has been watching the Ashes this season can see the problems that over reliance on technology can cause ( and I'm speaking as someone who would have been gung ho for it to be used) I see there is controversy in the senior game over a point allowed to Limerick. Anyone have a tin opener for this can of worms?
They're surely not using human intervention to make the final call? Vision system sofware is so highly advanced these days that you can track an object of any colour using blob analysis and neural networks. Look at what you can do with a Kinect. The graphical display and result is a sham to make us think that the decision is automated-it clearly isn't. The graphical display is also poor by modern standards. There were several contentious points in the minor game today so it is a pretty important requirement for hurling...
I've a fair bit of knowledge on vision system and sensors through work and this hawkeye seems to be the most over engineered method possible to do this job. Seems more interested in aesthetics and fancy graphics than being a cost effective solution. Anyway, the first things that should have been done, before this Hawkeye nonsense is as follows...
Make goalposts 10 feet higher.
Paint goal posts black or blue (anything but white) or use a black/blue football
Use normal TV playback to determine any dodgy ones.
I bet that would clarify 95% of cases for a fraction of 250k.
Jaysus you can't have black or blue posts. If I'm 90 yards out taking a free in hurling, I'd at least like to be able to see the posts!
Make the ball a bright colour.
Tennis balls used to be white years ago before they wisely opted to change the colour.
The emperor has no clothes.
I wasn't saying that they would use human intervention to judge the result - clearly the technology did that successfully but the interface between that system and the TV/screens graphic failed. For instance, when a rugby ref goes to the video ref, he examines all the images and indicates whether it is a try to the match director and the graphics op in the tv truck firstly, and secondly to the actual ref on the pitch. This gives the graphics operator time to cue the try awarded/no try graphics and then these are rolled in at the same time the match ref is told.
I think the nature of the Hawkeye technology would mean that is is far more automated than this, but I would be hugely surprised if there was not Hawkeye staff there monitoring - in this case if there was a radio link between the ref and those staff he could say "There's clearly a contradiction here - instruct me on whether the point stands or not" and they could say whether it was a Hawkeye malfunction or a merely a graphics malfunction. Not ideal, but the optimum outcome should be the point awarded, no matter how long it took or how awkward it looked.
If the graphic function for Hawkeye is actually operated from the TV truck there is a good possibility it was simply human error - don't know whether that was the case or not.
Hang on though lads. I thought the story was that it *was* actually a wide, and it was just the graphical representation that was wrong. In otherwords the ball went wide, but the graphic made it look over?
My understanding was that the ball was over - ref went for confirmation, technology showed it over, graphic called it wrong. That's certainly the line that Alan Milton was pushing this morning.
The point was good
The simulated grapic afterwards of the ball in motion was good
The caption following the simulation stated MISS, whic was obviously wrong, instead of score or whatever
Quote from: Bensars on August 19, 2013, 02:31:24 PM
The point was good
The simulated grapic afterwards of the ball in motion was good
The caption following the simulation stated MISS, whic was obviously wrong, instead of score or whatever
They should have had a plan b
That's not what the GAA said yesterday. They said just after half time in the minor game that the decision was correct...
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2013, 02:33:44 PM
That's not what the GAA said yesterday. They said just after half time in the minor game that the decision was correct...
Well the graphic clearly showed that is was a point however it come up as a miss instead of a score .
This is the tweet I saw yesterday during the match.. Peter Sweeney is the Star reporter.
QuotePeter Sweeney @Sweeney_Peter 23h
The GAA insist that the Limerick effort shown by Hawk-Eye to be a score was in fact wide so the ref was right not to award the point.
Expand
Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Peter Sweeney @Sweeney_Peter 23h
The problem with Hawk-Eye today, we're told, is that the on-screen graphic isn't matching the decision so the system has been withdrawn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHfKRPbGi8U&feature=player_embedded
This is the hawkeye Decision Az
Obviously Plan B hadn't kicked in at that stage and they were trying to spare the ref's blushes. When the technology is in any way in question, the ref gets hung out to dry unfortunately - as I mentioned before about the Ashes, the unreliability of the DRS has completely undermined the umpires confidence in their own decisions, ironically leading to far more disputed decisions.
However I do think the GAa have to stick with/improve Hawkeye. Is there any more magnificent sight in sport then one umpire flagging a point while the other crosses his arms?
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 19, 2013, 02:46:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHfKRPbGi8U&feature=player_embedded
This is the hawkeye Decision Az
I know that, I was watching the game :D what I'm telling you is that the GAA said that the graphic shown (of the ball going outside the post) was INCORRECT. They said the ball was actually wide, and the flaw was that Hawkeye was showing an incorrect representation on the screen. The end decision 'MISS' was correct (According to them).
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 19, 2013, 02:49:24 PM
Obviously Plan B hadn't kicked in at that stage and they were trying to spare the ref's blushes. When the technology is in any way in question, the ref gets hung out to dry unfortunately - as I mentioned before about the Ashes, the unreliability of the DRS has completely undermined the umpires confidence in their own decisions, ironically leading to far more disputed decisions.
However I do think the GAa have to stick with/improve Hawkeye. Is there any more magnificent sight in sport then one umpire flagging a point while the other crosses his arms?
Are you saying that the GAA lied to us???? Perish the thought. Have they since contradicted what they said yesterday, or are you speculating?
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2013, 02:51:17 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 19, 2013, 02:46:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHfKRPbGi8U&feature=player_embedded
This is the hawkeye Decision Az
I know that, I was watching the game :D what I'm telling you is that the GAA said that the graphic shown (of the ball going outside the post) was INCORRECT. They said the ball was actually wide, and the flaw was that Hawkeye was showing an incorrect representation on the screen. The end decision 'MISS' was correct (According to them).
;D Ah feck it I don't know what you on about Az :D
I'll try again. :D
The GAA are saying that what was shown on the screen as the ball flight was incorrect. They are saying the actual ball flight was wide, and was correctly flagged as a miss. The issue they had was that it appeared on the screen as if it went between the posts.
So, it was a wide, but Hawkeye's fancy graphic made it look as if it was over.
From what I heard on Morning Ireland, Alan Milton was saying that the tracking equipment was functioning properly and Hawkeye represented it a point correctly. The malfunction came when translating that result into the end graphic which announces the result. That's how I understood the interview.
That's exactly the opposite of what they said yesterday. Read the Irish Independent reports by the way, talk about unclear...
"The game will be forever remembered for the Barry Nash point that was ruled as a miss by hawkeye but overruled by the match officials."
followed by
"The GAA confirmed at the break that hawkeye had awarded a point in the first half that was in fact wide and correctly overruled."
In the same article, about 10 lines apart!
I hear what your saying Now Az . Some one from the gaa would want to clarify the matter .
Article on RTE.ie - clear as mud as to what was exactly wrong.
[i]Hawk-Eye was dropped for the All-Ireland Hurling Championship semi-final between Limerick and Clare after an error in the minor game earlier in the day.
Limerick's Barry Nash shot towards goal in the first minute of the game with Galway and referee Fergal Horgan referred to the new technology.
The graphic showed that the sliotar had gone inside the post but 'Miss' came up on the screen.
The referee had little choice but to give a wide.
The game finished level after normal time meaning the decision was vital to the outcome, with Galway winning in extra-time.
The GAA said in a statement issued this evening: "Following an inconsistency in the generation of a graphic by Hawkeye during today's minor hurling semi-final, the decision was taken to suspend use of the score detection system for the senior game.
A full review of the technology, in conjunction with Hawkeye, commenced this evening and its finding will be examined by the GAA tomorrow.
It is expected that Hawkeye will be in full working order for next Sunday's minor and senior football semi-finals.[/i]
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2013, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 19, 2013, 02:49:24 PM
Obviously Plan B hadn't kicked in at that stage and they were trying to spare the ref's blushes. When the technology is in any way in question, the ref gets hung out to dry unfortunately - as I mentioned before about the Ashes, the unreliability of the DRS has completely undermined the umpires confidence in their own decisions, ironically leading to far more disputed decisions.
However I do think the GAa have to stick with/improve Hawkeye. Is there any more magnificent sight in sport then one umpire flagging a point while the other crosses his arms?
Are you saying that the GAA lied to us???? Perish the thought. Have they since contradicted what they said yesterday, or are you speculating?
I think they are. From the TV replays it looked a point. The umpires waved the white flag to indicate it was a point. The keeper touched the crossbar with his hurl, which sportingly acknowledges the point.
My guesstimate is that the ref got a call from the Hawkeye official to say that Hawkeye disagreed with the point being awarded. The graphic replay shows what happened in real time, the ball went just inside the post. However, for some reason, the message came up Miss instead of Score. Massive fcuk up and they're now taking the Pat McQuaid stance on it. They should have held their hands up and just turned it off and on again.
If Hawkeye got a straight red yesterday, doesn't it have to miss the next game? Can it appeal?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 19, 2013, 04:05:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2013, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on August 19, 2013, 02:49:24 PM
Obviously Plan B hadn't kicked in at that stage and they were trying to spare the ref's blushes. When the technology is in any way in question, the ref gets hung out to dry unfortunately - as I mentioned before about the Ashes, the unreliability of the DRS has completely undermined the umpires confidence in their own decisions, ironically leading to far more disputed decisions.
However I do think the GAa have to stick with/improve Hawkeye. Is there any more magnificent sight in sport then one umpire flagging a point while the other crosses his arms?
Are you saying that the GAA lied to us???? Perish the thought. Have they since contradicted what they said yesterday, or are you speculating?
I think they are. From the TV replays it looked a point. The umpires waved the white flag to indicate it was a point. The keeper touched the crossbar with his hurl, which sportingly acknowledges the point.
My guesstimate is that the ref got a call from the Hawkeye official to say that Hawkeye disagreed with the point being awarded. The graphic replay shows what happened in real time, the ball went just inside the post. However, for some reason, the message came up Miss instead of Score. Massive fcuk up and they're now taking the Pat McQuaid stance on it. They should have held their hands up and just turned it off and on again.
I'm pretty sure goalies don't hit the crossbar with their hurleys to sportingly acknowledge a point.
You're from Kerry, what would you know about it? :D
Only slagging, yes I think saying that that is a sporting acknowledgement is a bit of a stretch, but it is true enough that the goalies tend to only do that when they think it is a point. You rarely if ever see them doing that for a wide. It's like a reaction.
That mightn't read great. Yes, of course it's a reaction rather the the hurling equivalent of tapping the cushion with the snooker cue. It is a nice tradition though, drilled out of the senior inter county game. And with good reason I suppose.
The replay is the only fair decision here.
However as tough as it has been on limerick they must revel in what has been a uniquely Irish fcuk up, somebody actually paid money for this. As I asked in a previous thread who will get the chop?
Seems that there is a different equation or set of numbers to be entered for football and hurling. Someone entered the numbers for football into the system for one of the goals. Seems the sensors could not properly determine had the sliotar passed through because it was searching for a ball of size 5.
Limerick appealing the minor result apparently.
And right too. The Sunday game panel should be the only people allowed to adjudicate with their video evidence.
To be fair, Luimneach should have never got that free in the end!!!!!!!!!!! They cancel each other out!
Quote from: rrhf on August 19, 2013, 08:13:36 PM
The replay is the only fair decision here.
However as tough as it has been on limerick they must revel in what has been a uniquely Irish fcuk up, somebody actually paid money for this. As I asked in a previous thread who will get the chop?
Depends on the outcome of the investigation. So far it sounds like user error rather than a fault with the technology.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 19, 2013, 10:33:13 PM
Seems that there is a different equation or set of numbers to be entered for football and hurling. Someone entered the numbers for football into the system for one of the goals. Seems the sensors could not properly determine had the sliotar passed through because it was searching for a ball of size 5.
If they haven't created a user interface where you simply press one button for football or one button for hurling, they deserve a good kicking.
Many an error made by an umpire in the past and no replays. Can't see this appeal working out for them.
Use video evidence for the second time this year
Quote from: Whishtup on August 19, 2013, 11:09:07 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 19, 2013, 10:33:13 PM
Seems that there is a different equation or set of numbers to be entered for football and hurling. Someone entered the numbers for football into the system for one of the goals. Seems the sensors could not properly determine had the sliotar passed through because it was searching for a ball of size 5.
If they haven't created a user interface where you simply press one button for football or one button for hurling, they deserve a good kicking.
It was on the news earlier. The company is to simplfy the inputting process to prevent this happening again.
It seems that they did not have a simple interface, with "hurlıng" or "football". This is pretty basic.
You can be sure this debacle will have been noted as far away as Mumbai (http://view-from-the-stands.blogspot.ie/2011/07/in-defence-of-bcci.html). Small world.
Everything fixed and ready to go for Sunday !
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BR9YHPLCcAA5tXH.jpg:large)
They forgot to carry the 1.
The settings are all sorted for Sunday.
Anything that looks like a close wide for Mayo will be referred to Hawkeye and a score will be recorded in respect of the "wide".
Anything that is just inside the posts for Tyrone will be referred to Hawkeye and a miss will be recorded for Tyrone.
Linesmen have been instructed to flag every line ball in Mayo's direction.
If any Tyrone player shouts at the linesman to do the thing fair, then a yellow card and a tick will be recorded simulateneously against that player's number.If backroom team members or supporters shout at the linesman, security will be called.
The 4th official will be entitled to instruct the referee to blow up the game if Mayo are leading and Tyrone look like they might make a comback.
Mayo will get free bar and a meal after the game.
Tyrone can go to the Skylon where Brian Mc Eniff's Sunday carvery will be finishing up and any left overs can be consumed.
Fair is fair.
And Tyrone minors must start the game with 13 men, having been coached that way according to Joe.
Tyrone minors not playing on sunday.Mayo v Monaghan is the game being played.
Quote from: orangeman on August 20, 2013, 07:58:11 PM
The settings are all sorted for Sunday.
Anything that looks like a close wide for Mayo will be referred to Hawkeye and a score will be recorded in respect of the "wide".
Anything that is just inside the posts for Tyrone will be referred to Hawkeye and a miss will be recorded for Tyrone.
Linesmen have been instructed to flag every line ball in Mayo's direction.
If any Tyrone player shouts at the linesman to do the thing fair, then a yellow card and a tick will be recorded simulateneously against that player's number.If backroom team members or supporters shout at the linesman, security will be called.
The 4th official will be entitled to instruct the referee to blow up the game if Mayo are leading and Tyrone look like they might make a comback.
Mayo will get free bar and a meal after the game.
Tyrone can go to the Skylon where Brian Mc Eniff's Sunday carvery will be finishing up and any left overs can be consumed.
Fair is fair.
And Tyrone minors must start the game with 13 men, having been coached that way according to Joe.
The
Won't be long before we have a 'CYNICAL' graphic for Tyrone...
The gaa will claim referee mistake and hide in the rule book. The reality is that that was a point in every other ground in Ireland but croke park. Why because a bundle of eejits think that a system and set of rules only available in Croke park is somehow good for the gaa. In the north we used to believe there was different rules for croke park now we know thatto be true.
Bizarre post. One mistake, caused by human error, does not make Hawkeye a bad thing. There is no difference between the rules in Croke Park and elsewhere by the way.
Marty going a bit OTT on the Hawkeye thing even if it has lost a bit of credibility, something Marty wouldn't know much about;
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/martin-breheny-time-to-open-the-cage-and-wave-goodbye-to-hawkeye-29515361.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/martin-breheny-time-to-open-the-cage-and-wave-goodbye-to-hawkeye-29515361.html)
21 August 2013
Bye, bye, Hawk-Eye, you didn't work. Flap your broad wings and take your beady peepers elsewhere. You were engaged by the GAA to remove the human error factor from score-detection in Croke Park and you failed.
Comically, the reason for your malfunction (at least in so far as your bosses want us to believe) was human error, the very problem your technology was meant to eradicate.
Unhappy with the reliability of 14 human eyes when it came to deciding whether the ball was inside or outside the post, the GAA went hi-tech. Hawk-Eye was your only boyo. No more embarrassed glances between umpires, no more 'Sunday Game' reruns of disputed points, no more calls for the GAA to do something about the problem.
Hawk-Eye would solve it all, initially in Croke Park and possibly later at all county grounds. Now, a little over two months after going 'live' in Croke Park, the system has suffered a catastrophic malfunction, which resulted in the worst possible outcome.
BELIEVED
Most people who were in Croke Park for the start of the Galway-Limerick minor game last Sunday believed that Barry's Nash shot had sailed over the bar. Even Galway goalkeeper Cathal Tuohy seemed to accept it as he tapped his hurley off the crossbar.
Hawk-Eye judged it correctly too, showing the ball to be inside the post, only for the MISS sign to flash up immediately. That, we were told shortly afterwards, was caused by "an inconsistent graphic generated by Hawk-Eye". In other words, a c**k-up. The system was switched off for the senior game and, by Monday, Hawk-Eye's spinmeisters explained that the problem was caused by a wrongly adjusted setting which catered for football rather than hurling.
The message was that the technology was reliable, but human error had failed it. Mistakes by individuals are as natural as life itself, but if a company is offering a product whose main attraction is the elimination of human error, how can it then blame human error when something goes wrong?
As bad luck would have it, Hawk-Eye's blip came in a game which ended level, turning Limerick's disallowed point into a major issue. Limerick chose to appeal the result since they outscored Galway in normal time, yet were forced into extra-time, where they lost.
Technically, Limerick are correct, but then Galway could contend that the free which brought Limerick level in normal time should not have awarded because (a) no foul had been committed and (b) the final whistle should have been blown at least 20 seconds earlier. Neither of those arguments would stand a chance on the basis that the referee's decision is final, whereas it wasn't in the case of Limerick's 'point,' which was adjudicated on by bungling Hawk-Eye.
I have had reservations about the GAA's link-up with Hawk-Eye from the start for a number of reasons. Firstly, other more traditional and much less costly methods of improving score-detection reliability had not been exhausted.
Secondly, it was wrong to install it in Croke Park only, albeit for a two-year trial period, because it meant that the All-Ireland championships were being run under different rules, depending on venues.
Thirdly, the GAA had to take Hawk-Eye's word on reliability and we all saw last Sunday how dependable it really is.
Fourthly, it's estimated that if Hawk-Eye was installed at all county grounds (and surely that would have to happen if the two-year experiment in Croke Park were deemed a success) it would cost €500,000 per annum, money that could be spent much more wisely across a number of areas.
On June 17, I queried in the 'Monday Debate' in this paper why, if Hawk-Eye was so dependable, there was a need to experiment with it over two seasons.
Less than two months later, it delivered a blatantly wrong call. Assurances were given on Monday that Hawk-Eye "will be fully reliable for all future games".
Really? Are we to take their word on that and move on?
In my view, it should not be used ever again. It was given a chance to show its value, but blew it. It's time to open the cage and let the embarrassed bird fly.
I'd say Martin is from the take off the corner forward and never play him again school.
He is lucky that he is one of those who does't need to learn from mistakes, unlike the rest of us.
If the GAA had spurned Hawk Eye when they were hawking (ho ho) it around, Breheny would have denounced the GAA for being stuck in the 19th century. His contrarian ways get tiresome after a while - and I remember his Irish/Sunday Press days.
In my head, I've somehow merged Martin Breheny and former TD Frank Fahey as being the one person.
I stopped reading at 'Martin Breheny'.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on August 21, 2013, 12:16:03 PM
In my head, I've somehow merged Martin Breheny and former TD Frank Fahey as being the one person.
I think he's a first cousin of Phil Space, the legendary Private Eye journalist.
Paddy Power special
"Only Applies during the Monaghan U18 v Mayo U18 & Mayo v Tyrone Games. Bets will be settled as a winner if a hawkeye error is shown live on RTE"
Hawk-Eye to Malfunction on Sunday in Croke Park
50-1
Quote from: seafoid on August 21, 2013, 03:03:54 PM
I think he's a first cousin of Phil Space, the legendary Private Eye journalist.
I would have pegged him as a relation of Polly Filler. Everyone around him is a Useless Simon.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 21, 2013, 11:43:43 AM
Marty going a bit OTT on the Hawkeye thing even if it has lost a bit of credibility, something Marty wouldn't know much about;
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/martin-breheny-time-to-open-the-cage-and-wave-goodbye-to-hawkeye-29515361.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/martin-breheny-time-to-open-the-cage-and-wave-goodbye-to-hawkeye-29515361.html)
21 August 2013
Bye, bye, Hawk-Eye, you didn't work.......
Sh*te journalist, sh*te paper, can't understand why anyone bothers reading it
Its interesting to note that Breheny typed out that article on a typewriter ..... cos he stopped using a PC back in the mid '90's when he typed a password incorrectly 3 times and then threw the PC out the window while roaring "bloody technology".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BU3KIOnCAAAoY2R.jpg:large)
Can anyone clarify this? If any part of ball is deemed to have hit post, it's a miss ya?
From that pic on the screen it looked to be a point as the ball is shown inside the post but when the angle swung around to the left it showed as being outside the post - not sure how it works.
In realtime, I thought it was wide
One of lads I was up with was sitting in lower David and was sure it was a point.
If it goes over the top of the post its a wide. I looked at that on the day and found it strange also. But as you said from the angle given later it was wide.
Quote from: Bingo on September 24, 2013, 09:01:10 PM
One of lads I was up with was sitting in lower David and was sure it was a point.
Inches..cm's even. In the words of the great Páidí..."a f**king grain of rice will tip this game, a grain of rice".
I was in line with that in the Hogan and it looked over the post. If it's deemed to have hit the virtual extension of the post it is marked down as a wide for the simple reason that Hawkeye can't determine where the ball would have ended up after a virtual deflection. Hope that makes sense.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 25, 2013, 10:13:06 AM
I was in line with that in the Hogan and it looked over the post. If it's deemed to have hit the virtual extension of the post it is marked down as a wide for the simple reason that Hawkeye can't determine where the ball would have ended up after a virtual deflection. Hope that makes sense.
Ya, Hawkeye unable to determin if the ball would have clipped inside or came back out or wide..fair enough I suppose!
Replay.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 25, 2013, 10:13:06 AM
I was in line with that in the Hogan and it looked over the post. If it's deemed to have hit the virtual extension of the post it is marked down as a wide for the simple reason that Hawkeye can't determine where the ball would have ended up after a virtual deflection. Hope that makes sense.
That would made it a virtual draw. We lose the virtual replay by a point anyway so who cares?
Virtually no one.
Quote from: ballinaman on September 25, 2013, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 25, 2013, 10:13:06 AM
I was in line with that in the Hogan and it looked over the post. If it's deemed to have hit the virtual extension of the post it is marked down as a wide for the simple reason that Hawkeye can't determine where the ball would have ended up after a virtual deflection. Hope that makes sense.
Ya, Hawkeye unable to determin if the ball would have clipped inside or came back out or wide..fair enough I suppose!
That's surely basic maths.
You need the angle at which the ball hits the post ( already there or else they couldn't do the graphic).
The relationship between the centre point of the ball and the centre point of the virtual upright at the point of impact.
Any self respecting umpire with a protractor and compass could have the answer in a few minutes.
So hawkeye would still be no use in a jumpers for goalposts game when the ball flies over the post.
Quote from: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 03:00:47 PM
I doubt it's that easy.
The ball would have to be uniform pressure etc Spin on the ball factored in.
A post is a wide makes more sense IMO.
What is the actual rule for the standard umpires if the ball is deemed to have went directly over the top of the post?
Wide. It has to go between the posts. The line extends to infinity from beyond the top of each post. I know this because Ciaran McManus took a shot that hit infinity.
Having the ref onside isn't good enough for the Dubs, now they have hawkeye as well.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 25, 2013, 04:15:18 PM
Wide. It has to go between the posts. The line extends to infinity from beyond the top of each post. I know this because Larry Reilly took a shot that hit infinity.
Fixed that for you.
No way deiseach. Anyone who has watched Offaly over the years will know what I mean. Kick like a train of mules.
Biffos all, to a man, wish they were Larry Reilly - they're not.
Quote from: deiseach on September 25, 2013, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 25, 2013, 04:15:18 PM
Wide. It has to go between the posts. The line extends to infinity from beyond the top of each post. I know this because Larry Reilly took a shot that hit infinity.
Fixed that for you.
McManus might have kicked it to infinity, but Larry hand-passed it back.
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 25, 2013, 05:00:51 PM
Biffos all, to a man, wish they were Larry Reilly - they're not.
No we don't. We know our place.
Time will prove that hawk eye is not 100% accurate. That ball was inside. Mayo denied a good point.
I miss the way lads used to give the umpires dogs abuse.
Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2013, 10:46:45 PM
Time will prove that hawk eye is not 100% accurate. That ball was inside. Mayo denied a good point.
What dreamland are you living in... it wasn't a point... also Tyrone wouldn't have beaten either of those teams at the weekend. Ye played both teams this year in games that mattered and got beat!
Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2013, 10:46:45 PM
Time will prove that hawk eye is not 100% accurate. That ball was inside. Mayo denied a good point.
If the Keith Higgins shot was a few inches lower it would have hit the post.
Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2013, 10:46:45 PM
Time will prove that hawk eye is not 100% accurate. That ball was inside. Mayo denied a good point.
If the posts were raised an extra 6 feet, there would have been no need for Hawkeye. There is alot of times where the ball is kicked higher than the current size of posts (it's more in hurling). Higher posts would sort out alot of of those dodgy calls.
Make the posts 20 feet higher and stick an umpire in a crows nest on top of each.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 27, 2013, 01:12:53 PM
Make the posts 20 feet higher and stick an umpire in a crows nest on top of each.
Lieutenant Dan is available....
(http://www.music-graffiti.com/thumbnails/img_forrest_gump_010.jpg)
If you knock one off you get 2 points.
Jesus wept.
Given the carry on at the weekend time to resurrect this topic.
Radio silence from HQ as to what the issue was.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40889609.html
Quote from: highorlow on June 08, 2022, 10:38:52 AM
Given the carry on at the weekend time to resurrect this topic.
Radio silence from HQ as to what the issue was.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40889609.html
Correct.
Too much at stake in the tightness of some championship games, never mind too much money involved setting it up etc. for it to be a mess.
I think it was used ok in the Antrim V Kerry game in CP but then in the Kilkenny V Galway game, it wasn't.
Madness in a final.
Quote from: marty34 on June 08, 2022, 11:13:07 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 08, 2022, 10:38:52 AM
Given the carry on at the weekend time to resurrect this topic.
Radio silence from HQ as to what the issue was.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40889609.html
Correct.
Too much at stake in the tightness of some championship games, never mind too much money involved setting it up etc. for it to be a mess.
I think it was used ok in the Antrim V Kerry game in CP but then in the Kilkenny V Galway game, it wasn't.
Madness in a final.
Bit of a mess in Thurles the next day as well although I think there is a small screen in Thurles some fans could see but thankfully the referee seemed to be aware of the decision but didn't look good.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 08, 2022, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 08, 2022, 11:13:07 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 08, 2022, 10:38:52 AM
Given the carry on at the weekend time to resurrect this topic.
Radio silence from HQ as to what the issue was.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40889609.html
Correct.
Too much at stake in the tightness of some championship games, never mind too much money involved setting it up etc. for it to be a mess.
I think it was used ok in the Antrim V Kerry game in CP but then in the Kilkenny V Galway game, it wasn't.
Madness in a final.
Bit of a mess in Thurles the next day as well although I think there is a small screen in Thurles some fans could see but thankfully the referee seemed to be aware of the decision but didn't look good.
Worked on the small screen on the Town End
Didn't work on the big screen
Anyone know what grounds Hawkeye is operational in?
Croke Pk and Thurles, any others?
Quote from: ck on June 08, 2022, 11:56:00 PM
Anyone know what grounds Hawkeye is operational in?
Croke Pk and Thurles, any others?
Sin é
Quote from: screenexile on June 09, 2022, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: ck on June 08, 2022, 11:56:00 PM
Anyone know what grounds Hawkeye is operational in?
Croke Pk and Thurles, any others?
Sin é
You'd think Páirc Uí Chaoimh in Cork would have it, with it being the most modern stadium.
Be crazy if it didn't.
.Easily enough to retro-fit but should be done when getting built and have wee room somewhere for the ex-referee to view etc.
Quote from: marty34 on June 09, 2022, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 09, 2022, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: ck on June 08, 2022, 11:56:00 PM
Anyone know what grounds Hawkeye is operational in?
Croke Pk and Thurles, any others?
Sin é
You'd think Páirc Uí Chaoimh in Cork would have it, with it being the most modern stadium.
Be crazy if it didn't.
.Easily enough to retro-fit but should be done when getting built and have wee room somewhere for the ex-referee to view etc.
Casement earmarked for one ;)
Quote from: marty34 on June 09, 2022, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 09, 2022, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: ck on June 08, 2022, 11:56:00 PM
Anyone know what grounds Hawkeye is operational in?
Croke Pk and Thurles, any others?
Sin é
You'd think Páirc Uí Chaoimh in Cork would have it, with it being the most modern stadium.
Be crazy if it didn't.
.Easily enough to retro-fit but should be done when getting built and have wee room somewhere for the ex-referee to view etc.
£200K installation cost deemed to be excessive when CCB is totally skint and up their ball hooks in debt. They probably think Croke Park with act as mother hen once again.
A few of those ancient suits that are now departed have a lot to answer for but since they are gone, they won't of course.
What happened today?
Quote from: ONeill on July 09, 2022, 11:18:00 PM
What happened today?
Galway scored a point from a 45 that was clearly over, Hawkeye alerted the ref and indicated it was wide, replays showed it clearly wasn't.
Time to bin Hawkeye and just make the posts a lot higher. Always thought the rugby posts look much taller than GAA posts.
Was a few dodgy calls in the limerick v Galway game worth a review again?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 09, 2022, 11:55:43 PM
Was a few dodgy calls in the limerick v Galway game worth a review again?
was there not one in first half that was dodgy as well, Hawkeye showed it as going through the post and gave a nil
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 09, 2022, 11:38:05 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 09, 2022, 11:18:00 PM
What happened today?
Galway scored a point from a 45 that was clearly over, Hawkeye alerted the ref and indicated it was wide, replays showed it clearly wasn't.
No I mean, why did that happen.
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2022, 12:04:54 AM
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 09, 2022, 11:38:05 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 09, 2022, 11:18:00 PM
What happened today?
Galway scored a point from a 45 that was clearly over, Hawkeye alerted the ref and indicated it was wide, replays showed it clearly wasn't.
No I mean, why did that happen.
why did it happen? Fault with Hawkeye system.
What was the fault?
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 09, 2022, 11:59:27 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 09, 2022, 11:55:43 PM
Was a few dodgy calls in the limerick v Galway game worth a review again?
was there not one in first half that was dodgy as well, Hawkeye showed it as going through the post and gave a nil
'Through' the posts has always been a wide
I'd say the issue is whether the "through the post" graphic was accurate.
Not sure but Derry had one that went to Hawkeye and myself and all the Derry fans cheered it as a score only for Níl to come up.
How can a system like that get it so wrong? Especially the Walsh one that was horrendous.
Even with that yes the right decision was made but if it's given wide at the time how was it overturned? What is the precedent for that? Was video evidence used?
Does that mean video evidence can be used for other things during a game? Big issues for the GAA going forward with Hawkeye!
Problem before, a few years ago, was Hawkeye was using a football metric for a hurling game or vice-versa.
They made a few blunders.
Somebody didn't press the correct button for the sport that was being played that day.
Waste of money if they can't get it right.
What's the chances they had it calibrated for hurling last weekend and forgot to flick it to football.
I can't believe Derry just rolled over during HT and agreed that the score be allowed.
Gallagher could well have argued that the time it took to check Hawkeye denied Derry the chance for a quick kick out. Galway won the subsequent kick out and Comer scored.
Also, the Glass effort was never shown again after being given wide, despite looking like a point to most people. If the game had been closer at the end the GAA would be in an awkward spot.
Quote from: ranch on July 10, 2022, 05:57:21 AM
I can't believe Derry just rolled over during HT and agreed that the score be allowed.
Gallagher could well have argued that the time it took to check Hawkeye denied Derry the chance for a quick kick out. Galway won the subsequent kick out and Comer scored.
Also, the Glass effort was never shown again after being given wide, despite looking like a point to most people. If the game had been closer at the end the GAA would be in an awkward spot.
Maybe It wasn't "rolling over".
Maybe it was a case of looking at a replay and agreeing, "yep that's a point, any blind **** can see that, and for it not to stand would be completely wrong".
Integrity is NEVER a bad trait Ranch.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 10, 2022, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 10, 2022, 05:57:21 AM
I can't believe Derry just rolled over during HT and agreed that the score be allowed.
Gallagher could well have argued that the time it took to check Hawkeye denied Derry the chance for a quick kick out. Galway won the subsequent kick out and Comer scored.
Also, the Glass effort was never shown again after being given wide, despite looking like a point to most people. If the game had been closer at the end the GAA would be in an awkward spot.
Maybe It wasn't "rolling over".
Maybe it was a case of looking at a replay and agreeing, "yep that's a point, any blind **** can see that, and for it not to stand would be completely wrong".
Integrity is NEVER a bad trait Ranch.
I disagree, it shouldn't have been reversed, there shouldn't have been an ability for it to be reversed by anyone. The referee's decision is final and all that.
It was particularly obvious in the incident yesterday, but it's the same in any game. What happens after a decision is reflective of what's gone before. There's the mental impact, Galway had just seen a good score denied, that gives them an injustice to avenge, the referee was also flummoxed, he played extra extra time which gave Galway the time to work a score. Also, the delay meant Derry had fewer kick out options.
So it's not about integrity on this one, it's about how this option cannot be available in field sports
And say what you will, it was an incredible momentum swing in the stadium.
Agree on the momentum swing. Although well beat (so not sour grapes) the Derry team battled well to go in at ht one up, then as you walk out all of a sudden its level and inside a minute youre a point down.
Would be curious to know when the team and management were made aware the point was to stand
It's always an 'injustice' to the losing team, complaining about giving the actual score back looks like sour grapes..
Derry were shite that's what lost the game. There would have been gurning from Derry one's looking that score reinstated for them had it went against them..
As for the referees decision is final and all that, Hawkeye overturns referees decisions in many games at Thurles and Croke, yes it malfunctioned yesterday but the right call was given in the end.
I'd be more curious about when management realised if we continue to play like this we are going to lose?
What's the craic with Hawkeye when the graphic shows the ball going through the post and is therefore a "Nil", obviously it's impossible for the ball to go through. Why doesent it show it going either side of the post ?
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 10, 2022, 12:21:29 PM
What's the craic with Hawkeye when the graphic shows the ball going through the post and is therefore a "Nil", obviously it's impossible for the ball to go through. Why doesent it show it going either side of the post ?
Through the virtual post is the same as going through the actual post if it was extended. Directly over the post is and always has been a wide, so I'm assuming that's why it gives it a Nil
Quote from: onefineday on July 10, 2022, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 10, 2022, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: ranch on July 10, 2022, 05:57:21 AM
I can't believe Derry just rolled over during HT and agreed that the score be allowed.
Gallagher could well have argued that the time it took to check Hawkeye denied Derry the chance for a quick kick out. Galway won the subsequent kick out and Comer scored.
Also, the Glass effort was never shown again after being given wide, despite looking like a point to most people. If the game had been closer at the end the GAA would be in an awkward spot.
Maybe It wasn't "rolling over".
Maybe it was a case of looking at a replay and agreeing, "yep that's a point, any blind **** can see that, and for it not to stand would be completely wrong".
Integrity is NEVER a bad trait Ranch.
I disagree, it shouldn't have been reversed, there shouldn't have been an ability for it to be reversed by anyone. The referee's decision is final and all that.
It was particularly obvious in the incident yesterday, but it's the same in any game. What happens after a decision is reflective of what's gone before. There's the mental impact, Galway had just seen a good score denied, that gives them an injustice to avenge, the referee was also flummoxed, he played extra extra time which gave Galway the time to work a score. Also, the delay meant Derry had fewer kick out options.
So it's not about integrity on this one, it's about how this option cannot be available in field sports
And say what you will, it was an incredible momentum swing in the stadium.
the referee's decision was a point and that was reversed
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2022, 12:18:00 PM
It's always an 'injustice' to the losing team, complaining about giving the actual score back looks like sour grapes..
Derry were shite that's what lost the game. There would have been gurning from Derry one's looking that score reinstated for them had it went against them..
As for the referees decision is final and all that, Hawkeye overturns referees decisions in many games at Thurles and Croke, yes it malfunctioned yesterday but the right call was given in the end.
I'd be more curious about when management realised if we continue to play like this we are going to lose?
No, Hawkeye assists the referee to come to a decision, it did the same this time. It appears as though pressure was then put on Derry to agree to reverse the decision? It's all bizarre and illogical that a decision reached on the pitch can be retrospectively amended without play being restarted from that point onwards.
Final point on this. In 2019 tipp v Wexford, Wexford shot for a point was stopped by tipp keeper, he started an attack which ended up with tipp scoring a goal. Hawkeye buzzed the ref, told him the ball stopped by the tipp keeper had actually crossed the plane and was a point. The tipp goal was ruled out, the point awarded and play restarted with a puck out. That's all correct and how the system should work.
Yesterday, that couldn't happen because play had restarted and we were at half time, so that had to be the end of it and it could not be revisited.
If Hawkeye had been aware of the problem before the teams were back in the dressing room, but after Comer's point, you'd think that the Walsh 45 would have been given, Comer's point ruled out and play would have restarted with a Derry kickout, there's no other way this could have been addressed fairly.
It went over the bar, so it was rightly given a point in the end. Nothing else to see here.
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 10, 2022, 12:21:29 PM
What's the craic with Hawkeye when the graphic shows the ball going through the post and is therefore a "Nil", obviously it's impossible for the ball to go through. Why doesent it show it going either side of the post ?
Because it didn't go either side of the post. It went through. That's the whole point of Hawkeye
Here's what would have happened the game would have been played out and at the end had there been a 1 point win for Derry the Galway would have launched an appeal, a bit like when the ref blew the game up early and we had the Offaly replays.
Whoever agreed to allowing the score then big kudos to him, someone with actual integrity..
whether it's actually allowed via the rule book is up for debate, though I suspect the agreement would have needed county secretary involvement, the ref should have overruled Hawkeye and agreed with what he saw or his umpires clearly seen, again linesmen and fourth official all have a say in it..
Thankfully it didn't have any issues late on as Derry were stuffed