I see the IRFU has just announced a deal with a leading wine to become the official wine to the Irish team. There also an official beer and of course we have the Magners League and the Heineken Cup.
Imagine the uproar if the GAA had an official beer and an official wine! I can never understand what there are numerous complaints about the fact that Guinness sponsors the GAA when rugby gets away with it?
Don't get me wrong I am not necessarily condoning the sponsorship but surely the same argument applies to all code?
Quote from: StoneWall on November 14, 2006, 03:46:43 PM
I see the IRFU has just announced a deal with a leading wine to become the official wine to the Irish team. There also an official beer and of course we have the Magners League and the Heineken Cup.
Imagine the uproar if the GAA had an official beer and an official wine! I can never understand what there are numerous complaints about the fact that Guinness sponsors the GAA when rugby gets away with it?
Don't get me wrong I am not necessarily condoning the sponsorship but surely the same argument applies to all code?
I always find the biggest complaint against alcohol sponsorship comes from within the GAA.
I really dont think kids drink guinness, or even drink because they sponsor the Hurling.
Maybe because of the type of drink it is more than anything.
Maybe if would be different if Smirnoff Ice or Buckfast were sponsors! ;)
All joking aside, it may affect which brand you drink, but I dont think it makes you drink when you werent going to before!
TheGael is sure to have something to say about this, he is not a fan of the drink ;D
bring on TheGael......
Nah it comes mainly from medical associations, they had some doctor on the radio recently lambasting the GAA for the Guinness sponsorship of the hurling championship because of the damage yadda yadda ... meanwhile the main club rugby competition in European rugby is known as the Heineken cup not as the European cup, the Celtic league is now the magners league, and then during the autumn international the other day there was a whopping great Guinness logo in the middle of the pitch! and not a medical practitioner in sight nor sound of the radio ... never mind if the Kerry team or Kilkenny had started knocking back Champaign like the Munster players did after their recent win ... still not a dicky bird on the radio about the good ol'drugby boys, there isnt even a whimper when they box the heads off each other, which happens all the time in rugby, the commentators just laugh it off, very rarely do the national papers show the fights ... double standards everywhere you look.
Not to mention yer lad the golfer downing pints at the trophy presentation in the Ryder Cup!
It will always be the Bulmers League to me.
I agree with Dinny, the loudest objectors come from within the association. Christy Loftus for example. In the current climate i think we can probably do without drinks sponsorship. I have no difficulty in the Association taking the moral ground. Although a lot of clubs are dependant on pub sponsorship and pub run events. I must have been at a dozen race nights, quiz nights, etc over the last number of years.
Personally i think the IRFU sold their soul (maybe a long time ago) to the advertising industry. It was part and parcel of going professional (Dessie beware). What i don't understand is why every commentator and news reporter nationwide have to row in behind them and call the competitions the Heineken Cup and the Magners League. It's like an edict was issued by Sir Tony.
On a humourous note imagine if the football championship became the " Woodies DIY" cup and the League "the Harvey Norman premiership". It's only a matter of time.
it shouldn't be allowed.
the gaa is in a position of influence what message does it send out?
it promotes drinking and as we all know there is more bad comes from alcohol than good.
the 26 county government should ban alcohol sponsorship relating to sport.
but then people in very high places love to brag about their love of bass!
but if the 26 county government doesn't the gaa should take the lead hopefully at congress a motion will be forwarded and passed banning the gaa doing so.
what we witnessed at the ryder cup was disgusting and the silly bravado about downing pints in record time as a mode of celebrating was nauseating.
Gael, I knew you wouldnt let us down! ;D
"the gaa is in a position of influence what message does it send out?"
It sends out this message, guinness pays us a lot and advertises the All Ireland better that any previous sponsor.
Do you really think this makes people drink more?
greenabovered I think you mean Micky Loftus (ex president of the gaa). He was the county coroner for Mayo and that is why he is against alcohol so much.
With regard to Alcohol sponsorship, having a competition sponsored by an alcohol company is not going to make people go out and drink it. Sure it does increase the profile of the product but it is different if an individual endorses something this might increase the appeal of it more.
alcohol sponsorship of sport is wrong!
the gael takes no prisoners!
Quote from: thegael on November 14, 2006, 04:28:18 PM
alcohol sponsorship of sport is wrong!
the gael takes no prisoners!
What about the vast majority of GAA clubs around the country surviving on the income their social clubs provide?
Is this wrong too?
What other revenue stream would you like to see the GAA explore?
Gael, can you please just answer one question, just one.
Do you think acohol sponsorship of sporting events A) makes people drink or drink more full stop, or B) influences the brand of drink people use without affecting the volumes?
A simple A or B answer will do, although something tells me we wont get it!
the gaa could be a bit more imaginative on other income streams eg bank of ireland football etc.
regarding social clubs i'd rather they not be there but can understand it.as long as they don't serve under 18s and as a result of them inter club feuding doesn't happen.
a big problem with clubs is that they themselves are not imaginative when it comes to income streams close to home- they daren't go near the big building contractors or tradesmen etc that is a hugely untapped market that the clubs don't go near - their own members where they could get collectively each year a small fortune.
also membership fees .some of the above don't relate as much to urban areas.
the gael takes no prisoners.
Gael, are you cabable of a coherant answer?
I repeat.
Gael, can you please just answer one question, just one.
Do you think acohol sponsorship of sporting events A) makes people drink or drink more full stop, or B) influences the brand of drink people use without affecting the volumes?
A simple A or B answer will do
If the government want to ban drink sponsership well so be it. Until then why should the gaa give up big sponsership deals to other sports. Im sure the "guys" in the irfu would love to see the gaa taking the high moral ground and releasing all that guinness money into rugby.
Quote from: criostlinn on November 14, 2006, 06:14:57 PM
If the government want to ban drink sponsership well so be it. Until then why should the gaa give up big sponsership deals to other sports. Im sure the "guys" in the irfu would love to see the gaa taking the high moral ground and releasing all that guinness money into rugby.
exactly, Guinness will happily pump money into rugby if the GAA wont play ball. It's up to the government to ban it if we deem, as a society, booze to be inappropriate sponsors of sport.
I think the gael is one of these "I don't drink and I don't want anyone else to" people ::)
I agree with the lads who are raising eyebrows over the seeming double standards.
However, a lot of the kerfuffle about drinks sponsorship of GAA competitions and teams is internally generated. When Mick Loftus or someone takes a shot at the GAA about doing deals with Guinness, it is the shot that makes the news, not the deal itself. Then the Joe Duffys and Marian Finnucanes of the world take over, and every doctor from Gweedore to Gneeveguilla
is called in to tell us all that alchohol in excess is bad for us, that there is a youth drink problem in Ireland, and that bears perform their ablutions in the woods.
The part that annoys me is that while nobody in the IRFU obviously gives a continental, the media are being disingenous by not drawing the obvious parallels. If somebody said 'The GAA should not be associationg with drinks companies', I would take their outcry much more seriously if they added ' but neither should the IRFU have Guinness internationals, allow Magners league and Heinieken Cup branding either. They are as bad'.
The argument could be made that the GAA is autonomous and controls it's own sponsorship deals, whereas the IRFU are only part of the Celtic League and the IRB for the Heineken Cup. This has not deterred French Clubs from being involved, but the competition is rebranded as simply the European Cup, or the H-Cup over there.
The Irish Union could make a similar stance if they wanted to, but nobody bothers to ask them why they don't. Better for the D4 media to continually take shots at the GAA.
Agree with the last few posts about alcoholic sponsorship - Guinness is a drink that (mostly) has an image of responsible drinking, its rarely touched on by teenagers on nights out, spides, chavs etc.
If we ended up with the White Lightning 3 Litre Barrack Buster Under 21 Football Championship then you have a question of morals. :o
Just announced last week that bushmills was withdrawing its sponsorship of Antrim GAA and sponsoring rugby instead. Not sure of the competition but they had Mick Galwey, WJ McBride and Jeremy Davidson in the photo shoot. Having said that at various times Antrims sponsorship by Bushmills has lead to problems such as the logo being taped over before a match because it clashed with the guiness sponsorship. Yet another headache for the Antrim county board.
Maybe im being over critical but if alcohol sponsorship was to be banned with GAA circles, then most surely the Corporate Level within Croke Park would be subject to significant changes, if it is banned then why allow these dompanies to advertise their company on a billboard in Croke Park.
Its definitely up for discussion, but if we take the approach 'Alcohol is bad sponsorship for GAA as it helps encourage a drink culture' then should a ban on fast food restaurants also be in place as this promotes an 'obese society' etc.
Its hard enough for some small GAA clubs to financially survive wthout some alcoholic sponsorship being banned
what is the problem?
alcohol deals brings in money to the cofers take it all when we can.
TheGael, still waiting.
If you could give one coherant straight to the point answer maybe people would take you more seriously.
Again..........
Gael, can you please just answer one question, just one.
Do you think acohol sponsorship of sporting events A) makes people drink or drink more full stop, or B) influences the brand of drink people use without affecting the volumes?
A simple A or B answer will do
The World Health Organization WHO would know a lot more about it than the rest of us -
to quote-
" All children and adolsecents have the right to grow up in an environment protected from the negative consequences of alcohol consumption and, to the extent possible, from the promotion of alcoholic beverages"
WHO also goes on to urge countries and governments-
"ensure that no form of advertising is specifically addressed to young people , for instance through the linking of alcohol to sports........."
Gael, thats 3 or 4 times I asked you a simple A or B question.
Can you give your own honest answer please?
Come on, prove you are a credible person, we want YOUR opinion not quotes from elsewhere.
Dubnut
I think the Gael has added in a C option to your questions and I think the answer is a cracker.
It sums up what we all know.
Kids are boozing too much and even though we are not encouraging it , by not telling them they shouldnt and not actively shielding them from the influence we are in fact encouraging it.
No action - in this case - encourages it - imo.
Kids want to act like adults asap, and they will try to booze, and although these images wont make us drink any more (or less) or change brands, it does affect the kids , their opinions and their desire for drink.
In fact, I will be giving a team of u17's a lecture tonight at training on not boozing if they want to become decent future footballers.
Practically all of them were drinking last sun night celebrating a league title. I was asked to join them (and several adults) but declined.
dubnut to answer both yes to a and b
also it would suit you better to heed the opinion of the WHO on issues like this.
Quotethe gaa could be a bit more imaginative on other income streams eg bank of ireland football etc.
Do you mean that we should encourage other thieves/robbers to sponsor gaelic games, and that they are a better influence?
Thanks Gael, appreciate your opinion!
I would disagree with A) although as Lynchboy pointed out we should discourage kids from drinking.
I do believe Guinness can sponsor the all Ireland AND encourage kids not to drink seperately without hypocracy as the ads are clearly not aimed at kids and most dont drink Guinness. But appreciate that my opinions are not those of everyone.
The work needs to be put in at club level mainly IMO as the kids will relate better to people they actually know and can directly encourage them to stay off the booze.
Quote from: dubnut on November 14, 2006, 04:33:19 PM
Gael, can you please just answer one question, just one.
Do you think acohol sponsorship of sporting events A) makes people drink or drink more full stop, or B) influences the brand of drink people use without affecting the volumes?
A simple A or B answer will do, although something tells me we wont get it!
Dubnut,
I think the huge amount of money that companies like Guinness and Heineken spend on advertising on sporting events alone answers your question. They aren't giving charitable donations as far as I'm aware and I'm sure their marketing people are well aware that a few million euro to sponsor the likes of the AI hurling must be worth it in sales or they wouldn't bother.
Is drink bad for you? It certainly isn't a health drink, but in moderation it's harmful element is greatly reduced.
Is Mick Loftus right to raise his objections to the GAA drinks advertising? Yes he is and his profession has seen at first hand the horrors of excessive drinking than most and being an ex president should be listened to.
The sheer presence the GAA has in every city/town/village/parish in Ireland makes it a power tool and maybe the GAA should do even more to educate about drinking and it's harmful effects. I'd like to know what happened the GAA drink awareness campaign which was headed by John Connolly a few years back. I haven't heard a whole lot since.
Are the media being selective in their condemnation of the GAA for drinks sponsorship, yet turning a blind eye to the rugby, horseracing etc. Yes they are, so whats new?
"I think the huge amount of money that companies like Guinness and Heineken spend on advertising on sporting events alone answers your question. They aren't giving charitable donations as far as I'm aware and I'm sure their marketing people are well aware that a few million euro to sponsor the likes of the AI hurling must be worth it in sales or they wouldn't bother"
Johnnycool, thats not the point.
Guinness / Heineken advertising could well increased their sales, and obviously does. This is not in question.
My point was, is the increase in sales based on people ALREADY DRINKING switching brands. Or does it make people who previously wouldnt drink take up the habit.
I would suggest it influences the brand selected but NOT whether or not people will drink or not.
Quote from: dubnut on November 15, 2006, 12:35:11 PM
"I think the huge amount of money that companies like Guinness and Heineken spend on advertising on sporting events alone answers your question. They aren't giving charitable donations as far as I'm aware and I'm sure their marketing people are well aware that a few million euro to sponsor the likes of the AI hurling must be worth it in sales or they wouldn't bother"
Johnnycool, thats not the point.
Guinness / Heineken advertising could well increased their sales, and obviously does. This is not in question.
My point was, is the increase in sales based on people ALREADY DRINKING switching brands. Or does it make people who previously wouldnt drink take up the habit.
I would suggest it influences the brand selected but NOT whether or not people will drink or not.
I'd say theres a strong proability that it would for kids
esp as they will drink anything they can get , at that age..
because its adult to do so and if you dont drink you are thought of as a bit of a weirdo
"I'd say theres a strong proability that it would for kids
esp as they will drink anything they can get , at that age..
because its adult to do so and if you dont drink you are thought of as a bit of a weirdo"
Thats true Lynchboy, but what I am saying is that this is the society we live in.
They will drink anything they can get whether there is sports sponsorhip or not.
If they were going to drink anyway it may encourage them to drink guinness instead of Dutch Gold or the likes but that doesnt make it worse, it doesnt make it better either but certainly doesnt compound the problem.
The whole problem runs much deeper than the GAA sponsorship issue, its a culture thing.
I think blaming the GAA and Rugby for compounding the drink culture is trying to avoid the real issues as to why we have this culture.
Certainly in Ireland I wouldnt say GAA (guinness) and Rugby (heineken) supporting kids drink more than those who follow soccer (eircom).
To summarise I am convinced that people do not drink more because of sports sponsorship.
But I could be wrong!
Quote from: dubnut on November 15, 2006, 01:35:53 PM
"I'd say theres a strong proability that it would for kids
esp as they will drink anything they can get , at that age..
because its adult to do so and if you dont drink you are thought of as a bit of a weirdo"
Thats true Lynchboy, but what I am saying is that this is the society we live in.
They will drink anything they can get whether there is sports sponsorhip or not.
If they were going to drink anyway it may encourage them to drink guinness instead of Dutch Gold or the likes but that doesnt make it worse, it doesnt make it better either but certainly doesnt compound the problem.
The whole problem runs much deeper than the GAA sponsorship issue, its a culture thing.
I think blaming the GAA and Rugby for compounding the drink culture is trying to avoid the real issues as to why we have this culture.
Certainly in Ireland I wouldnt say GAA (guinness) and Rugby (heineken) supporting kids drink more than those who follow soccer (eircom).
To summarise I am convinced that people do not drink more because of sports sponsorship.
But I could be wrong!
I would agree with that last statement
but
not so for kids.
The only thing we can do is come out and say that prospective young GAA (and indeed all sports) players should stay away from drink.
A campaign to make it uncool or just to make it unacceptable to youth that drinking should not happen until you are well into your 20's and consuming large amounts , along with smoking, swearing, fighting, unmannerly behaviour is neither smart nor clever
We have had a big success at our club this year- in the team I am associated with.
However there are a couple who I can see already are borderline ready to fall by the wayside.
Our season is now over and we are keeping the training going for fear of losing these lads to bad habit/bad influences/booze.
I agree, society is to blame, and some here have suggested what can be done - booze advertising is great for cash, but eroding society and families. The Celtic tiger has made Ireland an unfriendly selfish place. Those who fall now, fall further.
It never bothered me prev - as I was happy the GAA got any cash injections, but thinking about it we should ban drinks advertising. Not for influencing adults, but for the kids we are trying to bring up in the GAA way.
Rugby was a national joke until they stopped their boozing and took it seriously.
We have to also move with the times, and plenty of GAA figureheads are setting such examples out there - McGeeney for one.The O'Hailpins also.
For the sake of the children, and not making liars out of ourselves
"For the sake of the children"
Now you are just shaming me into agreeing! ;)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 15, 2006, 01:21:26 PM
Quote from: dubnut on November 15, 2006, 12:35:11 PM
"I think the huge amount of money that companies like Guinness and Heineken spend on advertising on sporting events alone answers your question. They aren't giving charitable donations as far as I'm aware and I'm sure their marketing people are well aware that a few million euro to sponsor the likes of the AI hurling must be worth it in sales or they wouldn't bother"
Johnnycool, thats not the point.
Guinness / Heineken advertising could well increased their sales, and obviously does. This is not in question.
My point was, is the increase in sales based on people ALREADY DRINKING switching brands. Or does it make people who previously wouldnt drink take up the habit.
I would suggest it influences the brand selected but NOT whether or not people will drink or not.
I'd say theres a strong proability that it would for kids
esp as they will drink anything they can get , at that age..
because its adult to do so and if you dont drink you are thought of as a bit of a weirdo
There is no doubt that in regards to brand awareness, then yes I believe children are more aware of Guinness due to the sponsorship with the hurling. Are they more likely to take up drinking because of it, then no I don't think they are, not right away anyway, however the subliminal link between Guinness and 'Irishness' is well embedded for later on. If as someone had pointed out we had the WKD AI minor championship there would be uproar as it would blatent targeting of a younger market and using the GAA as the tools. That most certainly would be wrong on all levels. If Guinness were to advertise on TV during kiddies programs would there be concerns?
The hard facts are that alcohol and it's inherent problems is with us and the GAA not taking Guinness' money isn't going to change that but I would like to see more education of alcohol and it's problems rolled out by the GAA via the clubs and especially the star players used in this role.
I do believe that the IRFU and other sports organisations like the Harp lager Belfast giants don't seem to be having these debates or problems (in the public domain anyway) and the fact that the likes of Mick Loftus can raise a debate on this speaks volumes for the GAA having a moral conscience
The alcohol problem isn't confined to GAA by any means but it's still a problem. Most teams go for a few pints after a match/training and go on a bender when they win the championship. It has always been part of the GAA tradition. I read a while ago about a Tipparery delegate proposing to congress that all GAA cups should have holes bored in them to prevent them being filled with alcoholic drinks. That's a bit drastic but I do think GAA players & coaches can play a part in educating young people about the effects of alcohol. I've heard about an alcohol awareness programme delivered by a former county hurler who has a problem with alcohol. Apparently its very effective.
Quote from: Lecale2 on November 15, 2006, 03:12:23 PM
I've heard about an alcohol awareness programme delivered by a former county hurler who has a problem with alcohol. Apparently its very effective.
That must be Johnny Leahy you're talking about and from what I hear he does a lot of good work in this area. More power to him
Yes, that's right.
Quote
In fact, I will be giving a team of u17's a lecture tonight at training on not boozing if they want to become decent future footballers.
Practically all of them were drinking last sun night celebrating a league title. I was asked to join them (and several adults) but declined.
Therein lies the problem .Its seen as OK for a group of U17s to "celebrate" by drinking and why because they see everyone else doing it. Have people forgotten that it's illegal for these kids to be drinking- hope it wasn't in the clubhouse!!. People can preach all they want about the evils of drink etc but as a society we have a complete blind spot when it comes to alcohol so I can't see why we're surprised on how many kids are affected. On sponsorship I'm in the camp that says all alcohol advertising should be banned and not just from sporting events. Alcohol related illnesses are a major killer in this country so I can't see why we should promote its use.
Fair play to you Lynchboy for not attending by the way.
PS - I say this as someone who enjoys a pint but no one can tell me that the advertisement and branding hasn't had an effect. If it didn't work and the drinks companies didn't sell more alcohol they wouldn't continue to spend the money on it
A lot of people take out mortgages, credit cards and loans and some people get themselves in horrendous situations with debt and so on. So by the logic of this thread, Bank of Ireland should not be allowed to sponsor the football championship because that's just encouraging people to get into financial difficulties.
Also, Coca-cola shouldn't sponsor the International Rules and the Tyrone county championship because kids are drinking too many
sugary drinks.
It's one thing asking the GAA to be imaginative about sponsorship, but if somebody hands them a whopping great cheque to have their name associated with a particular competition, then it's very hard to resist. I don't think the fact that Guinness sponsor the hurling means that more people are going to drink the black stuff.
Anyone for the Shell Mayo Championship?