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[Also if lockdown was based on the numbers in hospital going down to a certain number, say 500 for example. What happens when they go back up to 510 or 550 or 600 ? To put an exact number on anything makes life very difficult for the decision makers and as we have inept decision makers surely this wouldn't be a good thing.]

Is everyone not going a bit over the top with the Israel data.  The chief scientific officer still seemed pretty confident yesterday leaving it for the 10 -12 weeks.  I know you couldn't trust the politicians as far as you could throw them but surely the top medics and scientists aren't just winging it.

Also if lockdown was based on the numbers in hospital going down to a certain number, say 500 for example.  What happens when they go back up to 510 or 550 or 600 ?  To put an exact number on anything makes life very difficult for the decision makers and as we have inept decision makers surely this wouldn't be a good thing.

The decision yesterday to extend the lockdown which was due to end in 2 weeks by a further 4 weeks is, I assume, based on figures such as those I have proposed. As such surely those can be shared.

I would have thought, using your example, that it could be something like; Inpatients - 500, IC Inpatients - 20, R Rate - 0.5 (plus what ever other parameters are relevant) = Open non essential retail etc (Numbers have no basis whatsoever btw)

There could then be a further set of numbers for schools, gyms, cafes, etc

Took my Dad in for his first vaccination yesterday.
He got the Astro Zenica one and isn't due to get the second dose till the first week in April, 10 weeks away.

So, if we're being told that the first dose may only offer 30% of immunity based on the figures coming out if Israel and then it takes a further 10 days after the second dose to get the immunity up into the high 90's (this was initially based on the two doses being three weeks apart though) and my Da's circumstances are the norm, then I think we're going to be in lockdowns of one form or another till mid to late April...

The Israel figure of 30% immunity is based on the Pfizer jab not the AstraZeneca one.  The AstraZeneca one was trialled with a longer break so the data is there for a decent immunity level after the first jab.  It appears as if winging it with a bigger gap between the doses on the Pfizer jab is the wrong call.  They did this without any trial data.

We are increasing the gap on the pfizer jab too.

Why do they put dates on 'lockdowns'? I think I would prefer if they were to say, that measures will be reduced when; hospital admissions are x, R rate is x, Intensive care in patients are x...etc.

At least that way we can all see how we are tracking towards relaxation.

This craic of 1 'lockdown' rolling in to another is soul destroying.

[Sage Barista Express]

Any good recommendations for a decent coffee machine. Money isn't a problem because il save it in a year. Spending a minimum of a tenner a week, sometimes twenty thas last year

Sage Barista Express. You can spend more for Touch or Oracle for the gadgets, but can't imagine the coffee will taste different albeit I'm sure they introduce a bit more automation to the process. Know a few people with them and say they're the business.

Have one of these, have it about 5 years now, great job - but, I thought I wanted a good coffee machine but in reality I know fek all about good coffee and would have probably gotten as much from a decent nespresso type machine, just worth considering how much of a coffee connoisseur you really are, as I had ideas above my station!

I seen the following tweet from Jayne McCormack (BBC) earlier:

"The social engineering being put forward by Sinn Fein, the Sdlp and alliance party has to stop," - @DUPleader
doesn't rule out deploying cross-community vote tomorrow if SF call a vote on the transfer test, and she hopes UUP would "see the need to protect academic selection"

Why would unionists be more inclined to retain academic selection? I had assumed nationalists (with pressure from CCMS) would have had more affinity to academic selection and the retention of grammar schools.

FF and FG would rather enter a coalition together than share info with SF, even in a pandemic. The DUP and SF in the north have both stated from the beginning they had been disappointed that formation had not been shared in relation to lockdowns and strategy.

Angelo has been windmilling every thread he's in. McIlroy is a busted flush apparently, constantly making a **** of himself in the covid threads and the Tyrone threads. Detests Neil Lennon because he's from Lurgan.  He's 90% WUM.

I'm actually right and that seems to be the issue people have with me.

No, there's plenty others on here who have said the same as you, yet they don't get the same reaction off people.

It's not what your saying that makes people think you are a C**k. It's how you say it and how often you say it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test

I had been tracking that number when things were beginning to get worse, around September time but noticed that while yesterdays headline figure was 445 by today that same inpatients number for yesterdays date could have increased - a reporting lag issue, therefore you need to be looking at it a number of days behind.

For example, Monday's dashboard had an inpatient number of 438 but when you look at yesterday's dashboard it shows that Monday actually had 482 inpatients.

[My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.]

Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

But we're not.

Surge beds are in place so no one is turned away (hopefully)

Other acute procedures are now being carried out alongside Covid treatment

Re staff, the kitchen sink has been thrown at this shortage. The NHS was short staffed before Covid, with staff isolating etc

You're opinion is not based on fact

So why then 10 days ago is the health minister saying "no hospital will turn away a Covid-19 patient but people with other serious illness may have to wait for treatment." (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54934000)

What is the kitchen sink? What has been done and what results have been achieved?

What you are telling me does not appear to align with the message that we had to enter a further lockdown this weekend to protect our health service. Numbers were falling significantly but we are told it wasn't enough to stop our hospitals being overrun - now if the equipment is there as it appears to be it must be a staffing issue.

I will freely admit I do not have all the facts however I would also assert that all the facts are not available to the public.

To be clear I do not disagree with the revised regulations which come in on Friday, in the most part but I would be extremely interested in the medium/long term plan and whether it is just simply to wait on the vaccine roll out - if so that's particularity tough on those people identified in the article above and business owners who still await assistance from the same government.

Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

[It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found]

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

I realise that - so that then begs the question if we were unable to staff it why 'build' it.

If it is due to staff self isolating then can better testing assist with this - i.e. not have staff self isolating as they have been deemed a close contact but instead test.

We appear to be an attractive option for overseas staff previously in the nursing profession, are those countries now retaining those staff?

What is being done to repatriate staff as highlighted by JC?

Are there tasks carried out by nurses currently that could be carried out by auxiliary staff in the short term to reduced the ratio of nurses per ward - can doctors/consultants be tasked with nursing roles in certain circumstances due to staff levels?

IMHO sweet fuk all has been done for the past 9 months except fire fighting, we had a lull in the Summer months where we should have been looking at contingency planning for staff levels, we didn't. We are where we are but my worry is that if we can reduce the levels to a more palatable level again that we will spend that period back slapping and eating out to help out while we await a further surge ad nauseum until a vaccine is rolled out.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

[biggest spreader of Covid.]

The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir

Where is your evidence firstly that schools are biggest spreaders and secondly that they are marking people present?

What we do know but is that the official figures on death arent right because certs are not accurate!

I will find it for you.

In the meantime its great to see the numbers drop during the current lockdown isnt it?

They have dropped - not to where they need to be but they are about half of what they were last month.

What is the solution? Close all schools? For how long? Try and make the time up later in the year or just accept it as collateral damage?

I have no doubt schools and third level education are having an impact on the number of cases, however I have yet to see any proposals to help manage that better, because as far as I understand every kid has a right to an education, on top of that and unfortunately, school is the only safe place for a large number of kids and somewhere they can get a decent meal.

I asked the following on the teachers thread with no response;

"From a secondary teacher's experience, does blended learning work? Does it negatively affect kids from (for want of a better term) a lower socio economic background to a greater degree?

Has anything been done to facilitate future blended learning since returning to school full time?"

Those in the private sector have had to evolve to survive and what is clear is that even that evolution of businesses has not been enough as they face in to another lock down. However in the public sector there appears (this is directed at unions) to be a 'not my job' attitude. Our politicians have time and time again made it clear that they have no desire to close schools again, therefore if the teaching unions as they would have you believe are actually interested in the H&S of their staff what innovative or otherwise approached have they proposed to make their work environment safer?

So now ( in the North ) we can't take anymore than 15 pupils outside for non contact Pe but the same pupils, who will be in the same bubble, can go outside for break and lunch in numbers of more than 15 ?
Schools in the North received this gem this morning at 9.10.
2 weeks off and not a word and then they land this on a Monday morning .
They are just making this up as they go along.

And they tell us we are back in school cos there's little evidence of the virus spreading in school..

According to them it's not safe to play outside together for 30minutes but safe to sit together in close contact for the remainder of the day

They know fine well that that virus can spread in schools but they want parents able to go to their work..

Maybe some of 'they' want an education for all children.