Brexit.

[Itchy]

Before you all get sticking th boot into benny I can clearly recall when all the hard men chat on here was "f**k the eu, ecb, Von rompuy etc etc they put us into this bailout, it's their fault a semi detached house on a flood plain in Athlone was worth 880,000 Euro."

I'd find the sudden change of heart amongst the populists funny if it wasn't so damn pathetic.

You may find it funny or pathetic. I find it a good example of grown up people being able to think in terms other than white hats good, black hats bad. Grown ups know that we were gang-raped by Germany and the ECB. But no process of reasoning would lead them to respond by leaving the EU and thereby impoverishing ourselves by hitching our economic wagon to a nineteenth-century horse and buggy economy that is about to shoot its horse.

Where has being in the EU got Ireland? Two treaties enforced, dictated to on what they must/can't do, massive bailout to be paid off for years to come, flocks of nationalities driving down wages and leading to stresses on hospitals housing etc. Thousands of Irish left for work. Many have lost their homes, now growing homelessness, pay cuts, education/health/benefit cuts etc etc. If that is the situation after bowing to Europe, then God help Ireland.

Ah but sure the EU gave us money for a couple of motorways, so it's all grand.

This is the sort of ill founded insular rhetoric that got the UK into the current Brexit clusterfcuk that it presently finds itself. Scaremongering and playing on old ill conceived prejudices with no semblance of a clearly defined alternative plan.

Well, was any of that post incorrect?

It was f**king spot on Benny.

Anyone who disagrees certainly has their blinkers on.

The EU has it faults but why dont you state some employment and wealth facts on Ireland pre EU vrs today and we can all see the data.

[haranguerer]

Ireland is in a vastly better place than it was before EU membership. I don't think its EU supporters who have the blinkers on.

[sid waddell]

Before you all get sticking th boot into benny I can clearly recall when all the hard men chat on here was "f**k the eu, ecb, Von rompuy etc etc they put us into this bailout, it's their fault a semi detached house on a flood plain in Athlone was worth 880,000 Euro."

I'd find the sudden change of heart amongst the populists funny if it wasn't so damn pathetic.

You may find it funny or pathetic. I find it a good example of grown up people being able to think in terms other than white hats good, black hats bad. Grown ups know that we were gang-raped by Germany and the ECB. But no process of reasoning would lead them to respond by leaving the EU and thereby impoverishing ourselves by hitching our economic wagon to a nineteenth-century horse and buggy economy that is about to shoot its horse.

Where has being in the EU got Ireland? Two treaties enforced, dictated to on what they must/can't do, massive bailout to be paid off for years to come, flocks of nationalities driving down wages and leading to stresses on hospitals housing etc. Thousands of Irish left for work. Many have lost their homes, now growing homelessness, pay cuts, education/health/benefit cuts etc etc. If that is the situation after bowing to Europe, then God help Ireland.

Ah but sure the EU gave us money for a couple of motorways, so it's all grand.

This is the sort of ill founded insular rhetoric that got the UK into the current Brexit clusterfcuk that it presently finds itself. Scaremongering and playing on old ill conceived prejudices with no semblance of a clearly defined alternative plan.

Well, was any of that post incorrect?

It was f**king spot on Benny.

Anyone who disagrees certainly has their blinkers on.

The EU has it faults but why dont you state some employment and wealth facts on Ireland pre EU vrs today and we can all see the data.

Ah now, don't be angling for facts to be brought into this debate.

That's very unfair, some people around here have severe allergic reactions to them.

[yellowcard]

Before you all get sticking th boot into benny I can clearly recall when all the hard men chat on here was "f**k the eu, ecb, Von rompuy etc etc they put us into this bailout, it's their fault a semi detached house on a flood plain in Athlone was worth 880,000 Euro."

I'd find the sudden change of heart amongst the populists funny if it wasn't so damn pathetic.

You may find it funny or pathetic. I find it a good example of grown up people being able to think in terms other than white hats good, black hats bad. Grown ups know that we were gang-raped by Germany and the ECB. But no process of reasoning would lead them to respond by leaving the EU and thereby impoverishing ourselves by hitching our economic wagon to a nineteenth-century horse and buggy economy that is about to shoot its horse.

Where has being in the EU got Ireland? Two treaties enforced, dictated to on what they must/can't do, massive bailout to be paid off for years to come, flocks of nationalities driving down wages and leading to stresses on hospitals housing etc. Thousands of Irish left for work. Many have lost their homes, now growing homelessness, pay cuts, education/health/benefit cuts etc etc. If that is the situation after bowing to Europe, then God help Ireland.

Ah but sure the EU gave us money for a couple of motorways, so it's all grand.

This is the sort of ill founded insular rhetoric that got the UK into the current Brexit clusterfcuk that it presently finds itself. Scaremongering and playing on old ill conceived prejudices with no semblance of a clearly defined alternative plan.

Well, was any of that post incorrect?

Come on Benny, its not a black and white world. Take the blinkers off. It sounds like you're just looking for an argument and I don't have the energy to get into one with someone taking such a ludicrous viewpoint.

[seafoid]

The EU weaned Ireland off the English teat but the Eurozone does not have a lender of last resort . So something has to change before the next crash.

[seafoid]

Guardian
The Irish prime minister has said he believes there is plenty of time to salvage the Irish border Brexit deal, scuppered by the DUP before it was inked.

Speaking for the second time since talks collapsed Leo Varadkar revealed that the controversial wording for the proposal to have "regulatory alignment" between Northern Ireland and the EU post Brexit was

RTE's Europe editor Tony Connelly has hit back at reports in the


UK that his report of a leaked draft and amended document was part of "Irish propaganda" and unintentionally led to the collapse of talks.

He said "RTE protects its sources" but he was able to confirm the leak did not come from the Irish government. He also pointed out he reported the leak at 11.15am, 15 minutes after Jean Claude Juncker confirmed to Leo Varadkar that the British had agreed the final wording.

[T Fearon]

Did Ireland not join the EEC in the early 70s because the UK was joining? I am not entirely convinced of the merits of EU membership given that Ireland will be a net contributor shortly.

[Therealdonald]

I'm no financial expert, but as a rule have farmers and the whole agriculture business not fared out particularly well by being in the EU?

[seafoid]

Did Ireland not join the EEC in the early 70s because the UK was joining? I am not entirely convinced of the merits of EU membership given that Ireland will be a net contributor shortly.

You would need to do a cost/benefit analysis
The UK decided to leave and sterling fell by 20%.
Families save £350 per year in EU contributions and lose £400 per year due to higher food prices 

[Rossfan]

Did Ireland not join the EEC in the early 70s because the UK was joining? I am not entirely convinced of the merits of EU membership given that Ireland will be a net contributor shortly.

We've been a net contributor for a while now haven't we?

[BennyCake]

I'm no financial expert, but as a rule have farmers and the whole agriculture business not fared out particularly well by being in the EU?

Maybe so, but only the big farmers. Not the man with a few acres and a few dozen cows. Anyway, what they gained from farming grants was taken away from the fishing industry. And then some.

[Therealdonald]

I'm no financial expert, but as a rule have farmers and the whole agriculture business not fared out particularly well by being in the EU?

Maybe so, but only the big farmers. Not the man with a few acres and a few dozen cows. Anyway, what they gained from farming grants was taken away from the fishing industry. And then some.

Can you elaborate on that? I know there's a fishing co-op in Antrim and they benefit greatly from the EU? Something to do with eels.

[seafoid]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/05/we-cant-go-on-like-this-mood-of-resignation-in-eu-as-brexit-talks-stutter


One EU ambassador told the Guardian the failure to reach a deal on Northern Ireland was a microcosm of a wider problem. "At root the problem is that [May] seems incapable of making a decision and is afraid of her own shadow," the source said. 

"We cannot go on like this, with no idea what the UK wants. She just has to have the conversation with her own cabinet, and if that upsets someone, or someone resigns, so be it. She has to say what kind of trading relationship she is seeking. We cannot do it for her, and she cannot defer forever."

For weeks, European officials have walked a tightrope between sticking to the EU's tough negotiating stance and seeking to avoid action or words that could destabilise the fragile May government.

"We have to treat the UK political system like a rotten egg," said one EU source in the run-up to Monday's talks, suggesting that if "the realities of the world" dawned too soon, the British government could become more fragile.

One MEP said the government's weakness was "a key question" for the EU. "We are also in a very difficult position because it would not be in our interests to see the whole thing fall apart," said Petri Sarvamaa, a Finnish centre-right MEP who is a vice-chair of the European parliament's budgets committee. "At the same time ... it's not our duty to help the British government in a negotiation that is between them and us.

"The bottom line is that the May government is facing an impossible task," said Sarvamaa, adding that promises made to British voters during the referendum campaign and before June's snap election could not be kept. The government was in "an ever-worsening, deteriorating cycle," he said. "I love Britain and I hate to see what is going on.

"They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don't want to the negotiations to fall down, we don't want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?"


For some EU sources, the dominant mood is resignation. "The government is weak and yes that has created problems in many respects," another source said. "The EU27 is conscious of these problems and is trying to help. But at the end of the day we only have one interlocutor."

EU officials are stretching their own procedures – the early preparation of summit documents – because the Irish border issue is seen as a vital question of peace, which is in a different league to the Brexit bill. Officials thought they were inches away from agreeing on Monday a text that would have paved the way for the UK to move to trade talks.

While Monday's imbroglio was mostly relegated to the inside pages of many continental newspapers, the tone was often critical. "Theresa May taken hostage at the Irish border," was the headline in France's leftwing standard, Libération, which described Monday's events as a circus.

Perhaps the most scathing verdict was that of the Deutschlandfunk commentator Peter Kapern, who described Brexit as "the biggest political nonsense" since the Roman emperor Caligula made his favourite horse a senator. "Anyone who needed further proof of this thesis has received it today," he wrote.

Even if an agreement on Brexit was reached in the coming days, Kapern said, Monday's events showed "that the United Kingdom will not only leave the EU but, above all, the world stage."

[BennyCake]

I'm no financial expert, but as a rule have farmers and the whole agriculture business not fared out particularly well by being in the EU?

Maybe so, but only the big farmers. Not the man with a few acres and a few dozen cows. Anyway, what they gained from farming grants was taken away from the fishing industry. And then some.

Can you elaborate on that? I know there's a fishing co-op in Antrim and they benefit greatly from the EU? Something to do with eels.

I meant Irish waters.

[Rossfan]

RTÉ news doing party political broadcast for DUPUDA  this evening.
Poisonous 1950s unreconstructed Fermanagh bigoted Unionist Foster claiming Irish Government told Brits not to let DUPUDA  see the document.