Na Gardaí

Started by 118cmal, November 24, 2008, 03:22:48 PM

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Tubberman

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:52:41 AM
No tasers in the South?

Should it be that a knife situation a taser Should be used ?



He was tasered and pepper sprayed apparently, but neither stopped him
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

trailer

Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Guy got what he deserved. Went at armed Gardai with a knife. The situation had escalated and the Gardai had attempted non lethal resolutions. In a city with extremely high levels of violent crime I think the Gardai should be praised.
I bet you were an RUC fan boy back in the day

You've issues lad.

general_lee

Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 11:10:53 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
How is it possible to be both tasered and pepper sprayed and still keeping going?
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 08:18:54 AM
George Nkencho was brandishing/wielding/lunging at Gardai with a knife. All these people screaming "they should have shot him in the leg" need to f**k off as only those there present at the time can make the assessment. Police the world over are trained to shoot for the mass as it's the most effective way to ensure less collateral damage. This isn't Hollywood.
This is type of bullshit that the all lives matter brigade spew. I take it you haven't seen the video. Stevie wonder could have shot him in the leg

And your bullshit is the type Nazis and SF and the DUP the Tories and Labour and Trumpites and Israel spew etc etc etc. I can make wild accusations with no basis in fact either.

You're missing the point or, I suspect, deliberately ignoring it. They are specifically TRAINED to shoot at the mass as it gives a greater likelihood of a successful hit and lessen the threat of collateral damage. Shoot him in the leg you say? Have you heard of the femoral artery? They should probably shoot him in the leg but also make the calculation to figure out where exactly to shoot him so as not to hit any blood vessels I guess.
Let me know when you've seen the video

sid waddell

Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 10:58:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 31, 2020, 10:44:34 AM
I don't think it's Ireland's George Floyd moment but at minimum the Gardai failed in this situation, such situations should not result in a dead person, there were numerous Gardai there and one of him

There were at least six shots and the final shot had a four second gap after the previous one

This may well end up being the case but until you are in possession of all the facts you cannot make this claim surely.

He was shot three times. How many guards fired? How many officers hit him? Did the guard he went for reasonably great for his life or that of others and fire at him? Did another guard fear for the life of his colleague or others and fire at him?

The number of guards there is completely irrelevant if numbers alone were not sufficient to remove the threat to life.

How many Gardai? Someone mentioned 12? How many armed Gardai? We don't know

There was one of him, without a gun

Yes, it's a failure that it resulted in a dead person - are such situations supposed to end up with a dead person? No they aren't, they're supposed to end up with a submission of the person, peaceful or otherwise, or at the very least a non-dead person, and the Gardai failed to produce that outcome

The question is whether it is something worse than a failure, that I can't answer

If, for argument's sake, this exact situation had unfolded during the Troubles and the dead man was a Catholic, I think many Catholics' gut reaction would have been to be extremely angry at it

So I don't think anybody should be so quick to condemn people of colour for reacting strongly to this very unfortunate incident

I agree Gardai do not have a record of wantonly shooting people of colour but that does not mean that people of colour are wrong to feel there is racism in this country - they are correct

If you look at the wider online discourse, Twitter, boards.ie and other forums, incidents such as these do bring out every knuckle dragging racist in Ireland in general - I'm not accusing you of being a racist at all, for clarity, just making a general point about toxic online discourse

I do agree there is also some opportunistic jumping on the incident to portray it as a George Floyd type incident and that is a problem also - but it's a lesser problem than the racist online discourse surrounding the incident




general_lee

Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Guy got what he deserved. Went at armed Gardai with a knife. The situation had escalated and the Gardai had attempted non lethal resolutions. In a city with extremely high levels of violent crime I think the Gardai should be praised.
I bet you were an RUC fan boy back in the day

You've issues lad.
You're the one praising cops for shooting dead a mentally ill man

gallsman

As I said, the number of Gardai is completely irrelevant if those numbers did not reasonably reduce the threat to life or serious injury and thus remove the need for the use of potentially deadly force. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I don't know. I would hope that the inquiry would establish this. The suggestion so far is that he was both pepper sprayed and tased prior to being shot. Is it feasible that this can be true and he remained a threat that justified the use of such force? Again, I don't know. Perhaps you do, and can back that up with evidence.

It is wrong to definitively state that the Gardai failed without knowing the facts. It is entirely possible and plausible that they did everything by the book and followed their training to a T. That wouldn't make it any less of a tragedy, but it wouldn't be a failure on their part.

Equally, there's just as much of a chance they made a complete and utter balls of it.

general_lee

Quote from: Gmac on December 31, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
How is it possible to be both tasered and pepper sprayed and still keeping going?
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 08:18:54 AM
George Nkencho was brandishing/wielding/lunging at Gardai with a knife. All these people screaming "they should have shot him in the leg" need to f**k off as only those there present at the time can make the assessment. Police the world over are trained to shoot for the mass as it's the most effective way to ensure less collateral damage. This isn't Hollywood.
This is type of bullshit that the all lives matter brigade spew. I take it you haven't seen the video. Stevie wonder could have shot him in the leg
the cops or civilians lives don't matter according to your logic they should let a knife wielding mentally unstable person assault people and wander the streets brandishing a knife , the Gardaí at the scene wanted to go home to their families after work not be in hospital with stab wounds or dead .
Independent ie have a very different slant on this than if it took place in the us for example . RTÉ and them are pretty much state propaganda at this stage .
This guy was known to the guards, previously arrested under Mental Health Act. He punched a shop manager. Rightfully should be arrested. Brandishing a knife, again this calls for armed response.

They know who it is that they're dealing with and that he's armed. He's nonchalantly walking home and they're following him back to his house where he thinks he can just dander in through the front door. They shoot him dead in the front garden. As much as I respect the serious threat to the guards in situations like this it's abundantly clear they completely fucked up here.

gallsman

Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:25:54 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 11:10:53 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
How is it possible to be both tasered and pepper sprayed and still keeping going?
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 08:18:54 AM
George Nkencho was brandishing/wielding/lunging at Gardai with a knife. All these people screaming "they should have shot him in the leg" need to f**k off as only those there present at the time can make the assessment. Police the world over are trained to shoot for the mass as it's the most effective way to ensure less collateral damage. This isn't Hollywood.
This is type of bullshit that the all lives matter brigade spew. I take it you haven't seen the video. Stevie wonder could have shot him in the leg

And your bullshit is the type Nazis and SF and the DUP the Tories and Labour and Trumpites and Israel spew etc etc etc. I can make wild accusations with no basis in fact either.

You're missing the point or, I suspect, deliberately ignoring it. They are specifically TRAINED to shoot at the mass as it gives a greater likelihood of a successful hit and lessen the threat of collateral damage. Shoot him in the leg you say? Have you heard of the femoral artery? They should probably shoot him in the leg but also make the calculation to figure out where exactly to shoot him so as not to hit any blood vessels I guess.
Let me know when you've seen the video

You mean the blurry video shot from across a field? The one where you hear shots but a man in a blue top, subsequently identified as George Nkencho still comes forward? What exactly do you think this proves? What will be important here is the bodycam footage.

general_lee

Aye, the one where clearly starts lunging after the first two shots are fired!

Gmac

Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 31, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
How is it possible to be both tasered and pepper sprayed and still keeping going?
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 08:18:54 AM
George Nkencho was brandishing/wielding/lunging at Gardai with a knife. All these people screaming "they should have shot him in the leg" need to f**k off as only those there present at the time can make the assessment. Police the world over are trained to shoot for the mass as it's the most effective way to ensure less collateral damage. This isn't Hollywood.
This is type of bullshit that the all lives matter brigade spew. I take it you haven't seen the video. Stevie wonder could have shot him in the leg
the cops or civilians lives don't matter according to your logic they should let a knife wielding mentally unstable person assault people and wander the streets brandishing a knife , the Gardaí at the scene wanted to go home to their families after work not be in hospital with stab wounds or dead .
Independent ie have a very different slant on this than if it took place in the us for example . RTÉ and them are pretty much state propaganda at this stage .
This guy was known to the guards, previously arrested under Mental Health Act. He punched a shop manager. Rightfully should be arrested. Brandishing a knife, again this calls for armed response.

They know who it is that they're dealing with and that he's armed. He's nonchalantly walking home and they're following him back to his house where he thinks he can just dander in through the front door. They shoot him dead in the front garden. As much as I respect the serious threat to the guards in situations like this it's abundantly clear they completely fucked up here.
the thing is who would he stab if he got inside and bolted the door ? Shooting someone is definitely a last resort

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Guy got what he deserved. Went at armed Gardai with a knife. The situation had escalated and the Gardai had attempted non lethal resolutions. In a city with extremely high levels of violent crime I think the Gardai should be praised.
I bet you were an RUC fan boy back in the day

You've issues lad.
You're the one praising cops for shooting dead a mentally ill man

And the Gardai knew he was?

Hindsight is great, but the reality is they absolutely had to stop him entering that house. Negotiation beanbag, tasers and pepper spray were all tried. He tried to stab a Garda. Was only ending one way.

general_lee

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 31, 2020, 11:47:37 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 31, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Guy got what he deserved. Went at armed Gardai with a knife. The situation had escalated and the Gardai had attempted non lethal resolutions. In a city with extremely high levels of violent crime I think the Gardai should be praised.
I bet you were an RUC fan boy back in the day

You've issues lad.
You're the one praising cops for shooting dead a mentally ill man

And the Gardai knew he was?

Hindsight is great, but the reality is they absolutely had to stop him entering that house. Negotiation beanbag, tasers and pepper spray were all tried. He tried to stab a Garda. Was only ending one way.
According to reports yes they did.

trileacman

Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 31, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
How is it possible to be both tasered and pepper sprayed and still keeping going?
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 08:18:54 AM
George Nkencho was brandishing/wielding/lunging at Gardai with a knife. All these people screaming "they should have shot him in the leg" need to f**k off as only those there present at the time can make the assessment. Police the world over are trained to shoot for the mass as it's the most effective way to ensure less collateral damage. This isn't Hollywood.
This is type of bullshit that the all lives matter brigade spew. I take it you haven't seen the video. Stevie wonder could have shot him in the leg
the cops or civilians lives don't matter according to your logic they should let a knife wielding mentally unstable person assault people and wander the streets brandishing a knife , the Gardaí at the scene wanted to go home to their families after work not be in hospital with stab wounds or dead .
Independent ie have a very different slant on this than if it took place in the us for example . RTÉ and them are pretty much state propaganda at this stage .
This guy was known to the guards, previously arrested under Mental Health Act. He punched a shop manager. Rightfully should be arrested. Brandishing a knife, again this calls for armed response.

They know who it is that they're dealing with and that he's armed. He's nonchalantly walking home and they're following him back to his house where he thinks he can just dander in through the front door. They shoot him dead in the front garden. As much as I respect the serious threat to the guards in situations like this it's abundantly clear they completely fucked up here.

What were the guards supposed to do?
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

gallsman

Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:41:53 AM
Aye, the one where clearly starts lunging after the first two shots are fired!

Did they hit him? Were they warning shots? You heard the conversation between him and the guards from that video in sure as well?

The reality of the matter is that nobody knows exactly what happened yet, but you have already decided you know the full facts of it.

Sid, you're the one talking about the wider topic of racism in Ireland. Nobody else brought that up. That's not the issue here. My problem is with all the "woke lefties" (a term used by brain-dead morons and a banner I usually fall under) rushing to condemn the "murder" of George Nkencho and talk about how he was "summarily executed".

That insufferable f**king bellend Gerry Carroll was banging on about how George Nkencho was  "killed by a Guard while many Gardai looked on" and how "armed gangs (whether uniformed or not) should not be able to carry out executions in the street in any city in Ireland."

sid waddell

Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 31, 2020, 11:41:53 AM
Aye, the one where clearly starts lunging after the first two shots are fired!

Did they hit him? Were they warning shots? You heard the conversation between him and the guards from that video in sure as well?

The reality of the matter is that nobody knows exactly what happened yet, but you have already decided you know the full facts of it.

Sid, you're the one talking about the wider topic of racism in Ireland. Nobody else brought that up. That's not the issue here. My problem is with all the "woke lefties" (a term used by brain-dead morons and a banner I usually fall under) rushing to condemn the "murder" of George Nkencho and talk about how he was "summarily executed".

That insufferable f**king bellend Gerry Carroll was banging on about how George Nkencho was  "killed by a Guard while many Gardai looked on" and how "armed gangs (whether uniformed or not) should not be able to carry out executions in the street in any city in Ireland."

I didn't say the shooting was down to racism

What I said was that pretty much every knuckle dragging racist in Ireland is on the wider internet celebrating it