People from the 6 counties (our wee country)

[Leo]

I'm Irish - I was born in Ireland (Co Down) and therefore I am Irish

I have held both Irish and "British" passports - doesn't make me any less Irish! British is in commas as I don't think it should be a British nationality as Britain does not actually incude NI - whereas the UK unfortunatley does!

The only permanent peace in Ireland will be a united and free Ireland!

Line one correct - it also applies to me.
After that, you are in dizzy denial land.
I consider myself to be most fortunate to be in the UK as so do the majority of people  I know (catholic & protestant).  I am not British but a lot of my neighbours prefer to consider themselves as such. In many cases their attachment to the Irish identity has been eroded by IRA sectarian atrocities inflicted on friendnds and famiy and by so called epublicans who in reality are violent nationalists (nazi for short).
I am Irish, I live in the UK. I am not British - the legal framework allows me to be this way and no amount of misty-eyed wishful thinking or indeed nazi bullying will change this.

[Applesisapples]

We are indeed entitled to call ourselves what we are, but the term British or GB invariably refers to the other Island.

"Often", "usually" or even "mostly", but "invariably"?

Nonsense.

For example, when I fly back into Heathrow from abroad, I line up in the queue saying "British Passport Holders" (along with my fellow Brits from Eng, Scot and Wales).

The sign does not say: "British and Northern Irish Passport Holders".

I would seriously doubt many Scots or Welsh would call themselves British in the first instance.

How does it affect the issue whether it be 90% or 9% etc - the principle remains.

And as for your qualification "... in the first instance", that is a poor attempt at wriggling further away from the point. For it doesn't matter whether someone from Eng, Scot, Wales or NI designates himself as primarily "British"; or "English/Scottish/Welsh/Norn Iron" first and "British" second etc, they are all British and equally so, should they choose.

Look EG call yourself what you like it isn't hurting anyone...The passport doesn't define ethnicity only citizenship, you are Irish by birth and a Fermanagh man through sheer misfortune, but never mind.

[Applesisapples]

I'm Irish - I was born in Ireland (Co Down) and therefore I am Irish

I have held both Irish and "British" passports - doesn't make me any less Irish! British is in commas as I don't think it should be a British nationality as Britain does not actually incude NI - whereas the UK unfortunatley does!

The only permanent peace in Ireland will be a united and free Ireland!

Line one correct - it also applies to me.
After that, you are in dizzy denial land.
I consider myself to be most fortunate to be in the UK as so do the majority of people  I know (catholic & protestant).  I am not British but a lot of my neighbours prefer to consider themselves as such. In many cases their attachment to the Irish identity has been eroded by IRA sectarian atrocities inflicted on friendnds and famiy and by so called epublicans who in reality are violent nationalists (nazi for short).
I am Irish, I live in the UK. I am not British - the legal framework allows me to be this way and no amount of misty-eyed wishful thinking or indeed nazi bullying will change this.

Is Epublicanism a new online movement?

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I'm Irish - I was born in Ireland (Co Down) and therefore I am Irish

I have held both Irish and "British" passports - doesn't make me any less Irish! British is in commas as I don't think it should be a British nationality as Britain does not actually incude NI - whereas the UK unfortunatley does!

The only permanent peace in Ireland will be a united and free Ireland!

Line one correct - it also applies to me.
After that, you are in dizzy denial land.
I consider myself to be most fortunate to be in the UK as so do the majority of people  I know (catholic & protestant).  I am not British but a lot of my neighbours prefer to consider themselves as such. In many cases their attachment to the Irish identity has been eroded by IRA sectarian atrocities inflicted on friendnds and famiy and by so called epublicans who in reality are violent nationalists (nazi for short).
I am Irish, I live in the UK. I am not British - the legal framework allows me to be this way and no amount of misty-eyed wishful thinking or indeed nazi bullying will change this.

Congratulations 9 pages in a you envoke Godwins law. Lock the thread now.     

[Nally Stand]

What a week on this site - one poster talks at great length about Kingsmill in the context of the US killing of around 200,000 people in their atomic bomings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (but later chastises another poster for mentioning events in Ireland in 1918 because "that has nothing to do with Kingsmill". And now we have a man who twice compares the Republican Movement with the nazi regime which wiped out 6 million Jews. One thing about anti-Republican population, they can never seem to realise that sensationalism (i.e. their first line of attack, usually followed by a few gross generalisations) just serves to show themselves up.

[Tonto]

I don;t think you can use a 90-year-old example to back up what you said.

Is the right of everyone in NI to call themselves "British" in a united Ireland not guaranteed by the GFA just as Irish nationality is in the status quo?

If a majority vote for British withdrawal, your 'Britishness' will go with it -- that means that it (your Britishness) cannot be immutable (however unlikely such an event might be in the present, it's still a possibility, however remote) -- it would be impossible for such an eventuality to come to pass in Britain itself, i.e., the Welsh or Scottish can never have their Britishness terminated. The 90 years is somewhat irrelevant.

You can call yourself whatever you like, IMHO, and to my mind you're as validly Irish as anyone else (there cannot be any prerequisites, except being of the Sod): Pre-Celt = Celt = Gael = Saxon Invader = Planter = Post-Planter = 100% Irish.

Glad you don't subscribe to the 'native' vs 'planter' argument when it comes to Irishness BUT I must disagree with you; 'Britishness' cannot be withdrawn from someone who has been born within the UK and, as I said, in the event of a UI, I am under the impression that people from this island will still have the legal right to their British nationality.

[Rossfan]

That would obviously be a matter for the British government -- if there is such a thing by then ?
What if Scotland or England have gone independent by then?

I presume there is no such thing as Yugoslavian citizenship or nationality any more?

[Eamonnca1]

Claiming that I am "unable to make my mind up" is like saying a Rainbow* cannot decide what colour it is.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Here's a better analogy.  Five people are living in a green house. All independent observers can see that it's green. One of them (who used to think he owned the place and bullied all four of the others) nowadays sits in the corner and doesn't mingle with the others except for to bully the other fella he shares a room with. He thinks the house is Orange, but he also thinks it's red white and blue, he also thinks it's green, he also thinks it's yellow and he also thinks it's red. Which colour he thinks the house is depends on when you ask him. It changes constantly, sometimes in mid-sentence, sometimes it involves Clintonesque discussions about what the definition of green actually is.  And he's adamant that he's not confused, while the other four boys in the house all can see the green paint in front of their very eyes. But he thinks that their certainty about what they're seeing is a sign of some sort of psychological problem whereas his muddled interpretation of what's happening in front of him is a better way to view the world. He dismisses the opinions of all independent observers who can see that the house is green.

For his next trick EG is going to prove that the north pole is actually the south pole and vice versa.

If I were to try to do that, I would be wrong, not "confused".

What? You'd be wrong but you wouldn't be confused? Are you sure you'd be confused but wouldn't be wrong? Or maybe confused and wrong at the same time? Or maybe the fact that you're confused would lead you to believe that you're not confused (while simultaneously being wrong) when in fact you are confused not only about the question about the poles but also about the question of whether or not you are confused about the question of the poles as well as being wrong about the question about whether or not you are confused in addition to the question of whether or not you are wrong about the question about the poles. I put it to you that the fact that you are confused about the question of the poles is making it easier for you to be simultaneously confused about the question of whether or not you are confused. Either way, you're wrong.

[Evil Genius]

If a majority vote for British withdrawal, your 'Britishness' will go with it -- that means that it (your Britishness) cannot be immutable (however unlikely such an event might be in the present, it's still a possibility, however remote) -- it would be impossible for such an eventuality to come to pass in Britain itself, i.e., the Welsh or Scottish can never have their Britishness terminated.

If by "Britishness" you mean my British Citizenship, then what have you got to say about this?

"[Participants] recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."
(The above is from the Good Friday Agreement, btw)

[Evil Genius]

I'm Irish - I was born in Ireland (Co Down) and therefore I am Irish

I have held both Irish and "British" passports - doesn't make me any less Irish! British is in commas as I don't think it should be a British nationality as Britain does not actually incude NI - whereas the UK unfortunatley does!

The only permanent peace in Ireland will be a united and free Ireland!

Line one correct - it also applies to me.
After that, you are in dizzy denial land.
I consider myself to be most fortunate to be in the UK as so do the majority of people  I know (catholic & protestant).  I am not British but a lot of my neighbours prefer to consider themselves as such. In many cases their attachment to the Irish identity has been eroded by IRA sectarian atrocities inflicted on friendnds and famiy and by so called epublicans who in reality are violent nationalists (nazi for short).
I am Irish, I live in the UK. I am not British - the legal framework allows me to be this way and no amount of misty-eyed wishful thinking or indeed nazi bullying will change this.

Congratulations 9 pages in a you envoke Godwins law. Lock the thread now.     

No arguing with that, is there?

I mean to say, how could a thread about people being lined up and massacred solely on account of their religion etc, bring to mind the Nazis? 

[Evil Genius]

What a week on this site - one poster talks at great length about Kingsmill in the context of the US killing of around 200,000 people in their atomic bomings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (but later chastises another poster for mentioning events in Ireland in 1918 because "that has nothing to do with Kingsmill".

In the context of a comment about Kingsmills by Donagh Ulick which I posted, which was addressing the question of the "ends justifying the means etc", another poster (Rav 67) brought up the analagous example of Hiroshima, clearly seeking a reply.

At which point I expressed the opinion that Kingsmills cannot be justified on any level, whereas there is an argument (no more) for asserting that Hiroshima may actually have been justified (i.e. many fewer lives, military and civilian, were lost than if the Allies had had to occupy Japan, island by island).

Therefore I was not comparing the two events per se; rather I was applying a single principle to each of two situations, to illustrate a point.

Still, I can forgive you for not appreciating the distinction - doubtless you were so distressed at the thought that someone might be implying that your beloved Provos were anything less than noble patriots, heroically fighting a just war to liberate Mother Ireland etc, that you spectacularly missed the point.

Again. 

[Nally Stand]

What a week on this site - one poster talks at great length about Kingsmill in the context of the US killing of around 200,000 people in their atomic bomings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (but later chastises another poster for mentioning events in Ireland in 1918 because "that has nothing to do with Kingsmill".

In the context of a comment about Kingsmills by Donagh Ulick which I posted, which was addressing the question of the "ends justifying the means etc", another poster (Rav 67) brought up the analagous example of Hiroshima, clearly seeking a reply.

At which point I expressed the opinion that Kingsmills cannot be justified on any level, whereas there is an argument (no more) for asserting that Hiroshima may actually have been justified (i.e. many fewer lives, military and civilian, were lost than if the Allies had had to occupy Japan, island by island).

Therefore I was not comparing the two events per se; rather I was applying a single principle to each of two situations, to illustrate a point.

Still, I can forgive you for not appreciating the distinction - doubtless you were so distressed at the thought that someone might be implying that your beloved Provos were anything less than noble patriots, heroically fighting a just war to liberate Mother Ireland etc, that you spectacularly missed the point.

Again. 

Piss poor defence 

[LeoMc]

I'm Irish - I was born in Ireland (Co Down) and therefore I am Irish

I have held both Irish and "British" passports - doesn't make me any less Irish! British is in commas as I don't think it should be a British nationality as Britain does not actually incude NI - whereas the UK unfortunatley does!

The only permanent peace in Ireland will be a united and free Ireland!

Line one correct - it also applies to me.
After that, you are in dizzy denial land.
I consider myself to be most fortunate to be in the UK as so do the majority of people  I know (catholic & protestant).  I am not British but a lot of my neighbours prefer to consider themselves as such. In many cases their attachment to the Irish identity has been eroded by IRA sectarian atrocities inflicted on friendnds and famiy and by so called epublicans who in reality are violent nationalists (nazi for short).
I am Irish, I live in the UK. I am not British - the legal framework allows me to be this way and no amount of misty-eyed wishful thinking or indeed nazi bullying will change this.

Congratulations 9 pages in a you envoke Godwins law. Lock the thread now.     

+1
I think it actually states 9 pages. LOCK THE THREAD

[02]

Based on the current results 1 in 10 of those sampled are happy to identify themselves as Northern Irish.  Almost as popular as homosexuality

[michaelg]

Based on the current results 1 in 10 of those sampled are happy to identify themselves as Northern Irish.  Almost as popular as homosexuality

Can't beat a bit of homophobia