James McClean

Started by thewobbler, July 19, 2015, 12:39:27 PM

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The Gs Man

Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 09:32:43 AM
Militarism is part of Unionist identity. Queen, king Billy, the Somme, the orange order.   The poppy is all about the blood sacrifice of the Somme.Why is the identity  so tightly defined ? Because  its all bollocks. Before 1798 presbyterians were also vermin.

They don't know who they are. Settlers never do. Same in the States. So easy to manipulate.
Taigs can read a poem from 2000 years ago and see themselves in it. They can learn the language. They can go to Dún Chaoin. They can find a word in a de Bhaldraithe dictionary that makes sense of it all. Or it might be the curl of a point in Croker. Or 2003.

Unionists can't.  Cos there is no historical continuity. There is just violence back there. The insecurity never leaves them. 1641 is forever.

Doire is much older than Londonderry.

That's a decent post there.
Keep 'er lit

Hectic

I don't have a massive problem with people wearing a poppy or wishing to remember.  In many instances there are very personal motives and on a more general scale there is very much a focus on the two world wars when many young men lost their lives in horrific warfare where in many cases they had been conscripted.  It is pretty sobering stuff if you were to put it in todays context and think of people close to you in those age groups. 

There are also those who will be remembering more recent conflicts with a focus on individuals rather than the detail of the conflicts themselves where the role of the British army is questionable at best.  Again this type of remembrance is fine in my book. 

Where I do have a problem is this more recent trend from those in positions of authority whether it be government or their stenographers in the mainstream media who seem to have complete power in dictating that a poppy should be worn and trying to force this by the serious lambasting of those who do not from television presenters to footballers and football teams etc. 

The great irony of course being that on one hand the original idea of the poppy, and continuing reason for many people was/is to 'remember those who gave their lives for our freedom' in the world wars yet any public person wishing to exercise their freedom of choice not to wear a poppy is not tolerated.

muppet

Quote from: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 10:13:45 AM
I don't have a massive problem with people wearing a poppy or wishing to remember.  In many instances there are very personal motives and on a more general scale there is very much a focus on the two world wars when many young men lost their lives in horrific warfare where in many cases they had been conscripted.  It is pretty sobering stuff if you were to put it in todays context and think of people close to you in those age groups. 

There are also those who will be remembering more recent conflicts with a focus on individuals rather than the detail of the conflicts themselves where the role of the British army is questionable at best.  Again this type of remembrance is fine in my book. 

Where I do have a problem is this more recent trend from those in positions of authority whether it be government or their stenographers in the mainstream media who seem to have complete power in dictating that a poppy should be worn and trying to force this by the serious lambasting of those who do not from television presenters to footballers and football teams etc.

The great irony of course being that on one hand the original idea of the poppy, and continuing reason for many people was/is to 'remember those who gave their lives for our freedom' in the world wars yet any public person wishing to exercise their freedom of choice not to wear a poppy is not tolerated.

The Government will do anything to identify with the poppy.

Because the day those wearing poppies are pointing the finger squarely at them, is the day their power ends. Hence May's over the top reaction to the FIFA row.
MWWSI 2017

ciaraa

Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 09:32:43 AM

They don't know who they are. Settlers never do.


What about the Celtic settlers in Ireland?

MoChara

Quote from: AQMP on November 04, 2016, 11:54:17 AM
Seems FIFA are looking at the use of the 1916 logo on Ireland shirts in game against Switzerland in March.

It's outside their remit because that was a friendly I believe

seafoid

Quote from: ciaraa on November 04, 2016, 11:31:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 09:32:43 AM

They don't know who they are. Settlers never do.


What about the Celtic settlers in Ireland?

After say 2000 years you build up a decent back catalogue
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Hectic

Quote from: MoChara on November 04, 2016, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 04, 2016, 11:54:17 AM
Seems FIFA are looking at the use of the 1916 logo on Ireland shirts in game against Switzerland in March.

It's outside their remit because that was a friendly I believe

I think they should award the opposition a 3-0 win.

Hectic

Quote from: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: MoChara on November 04, 2016, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 04, 2016, 11:54:17 AM
Seems FIFA are looking at the use of the 1916 logo on Ireland shirts in game against Switzerland in March.

It's outside their remit because that was a friendly I believe

I think they should award the opposition a 3-0 win.

And guess who squealed despite them getting wearing poppy armbands for a friendly a few years back!

Dire Ear

Quote from: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: Hectic on November 04, 2016, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: MoChara on November 04, 2016, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: AQMP on November 04, 2016, 11:54:17 AM
Seems FIFA are looking at the use of the 1916 logo on Ireland shirts in game against Switzerland in March.

It's outside their remit because that was a friendly I believe

Nelson Mc---------complete cnt

I think they should award the opposition a 3-0 win.

And guess who squealed despite them getting wearing poppy armbands for a friendly a few years back!

Orior

Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 09:32:43 AM
Militarism is part of Unionist identity. Queen, king Billy, the Somme, the orange order.   The poppy is all about the blood sacrifice of the Somme.Why is the identity  so tightly defined ? Because  its all bollocks. Before 1798 presbyterians were also vermin.

They don't know who they are. Settlers never do. Same in the States. So easy to manipulate.
Taigs can read a poem from 2000 years ago and see themselves in it. They can learn the language. They can go to Dún Chaoin. They can find a word in a de Bhaldraithe dictionary that makes sense of it all. Or it might be the curl of a point in Croker. Or 2003.

Unionists can't.  Cos there is no historical continuity. There is just violence back there. The insecurity never leaves them. 1641 is forever.

Doire is much older than Londonderry.

Plantation happened in at least 3 waves, the earliest around 1610. The 1641 rebellion sits high in unionist psyche. That's because all the depositions were from the landed families, and painted the natives as animalistic brutes who cut unborn babies from their mother's womb and roasted children on spits. The english army were of course angels.

And later, it was those horrible Hearts of Steel boys that were brutes. The Peep O'Day boys were only burning catholic homes to protect and defend their own.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

Main Street

I see the Fai have been snitched to Fifa by the much despised whataboutery poppy brigade.

Fwiw, I agree with Fifa's uniform stance and regret that they were not so proactive when Irish players took to the field with black armbands to mark the death of ex royal Diana, like a candle in the wind.
If it means that Croats can't celebrate their pro nazi ww2 past on the field of play then it's a good thing and players like Di Canio can't give fascist salutes on the field to the horde.

ashman

Soccer brings out the bad in people. 

Applesisapples

It appears difficult for people to understand the different connotations with the poppy in the UK. It really is no different to a pink ribbon for breast cancer. Even as an Irish nationalist I can understand that people would support the charity and its ideals without supporting the wars that the army fights. As with the USA it is mainly working class kids who end up as cannon fodder, shipped home with PTSD or missing limbs. The Government which offers little help for injured ex military has no sense of shame given their reaction to the whole Fifa thing. As I said before the poppy is divisive here in Ireland mainly because Unionists mis-used it in the past and the legions over here are no different to orange halls with their fleg flying.

seafoid

Quote from: Orior on November 04, 2016, 01:52:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2016, 09:32:43 AM
Militarism is part of Unionist identity. Queen, king Billy, the Somme, the orange order.   The poppy is all about the blood sacrifice of the Somme.Why is the identity  so tightly defined ? Because  its all bollocks. Before 1798 presbyterians were also vermin.

They don't know who they are. Settlers never do. Same in the States. So easy to manipulate.
Taigs can read a poem from 2000 years ago and see themselves in it. They can learn the language. They can go to Dún Chaoin. They can find a word in a de Bhaldraithe dictionary that makes sense of it all. Or it might be the curl of a point in Croker. Or 2003.

Unionists can't.  Cos there is no historical continuity. There is just violence back there. The insecurity never leaves them. 1641 is forever.

Doire is much older than Londonderry.

Plantation happened in at least 3 waves, the earliest around 1610. The 1641 rebellion sits high in unionist psyche. That's because all the depositions were from the landed families, and painted the natives as animalistic brutes who cut unborn babies from their mother's womb and roasted children on spits. The english army were of course angels.

And later, it was those horrible Hearts of Steel boys that were brutes. The Peep O'Day boys were only burning catholic homes to protect and defend their own.
John Hewitt wrote a poem, the Colony,  about unionism from the point of view of a Roman centurion sent to put smacht on the barbarians but I could never find it online.
It is in this book

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/literature/poetry/ormsby92.htm

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Quote from: Applesisapples on November 04, 2016, 03:08:47 PM
It appears difficult for people to understand the different connotations with the poppy in the UK. It really is no different to a pink ribbon for breast cancer. Even as an Irish nationalist I can understand that people would support the charity and its ideals without supporting the wars that the army fights. As with the USA it is mainly working class kids who end up as cannon fodder, shipped home with PTSD or missing limbs. The Government which offers little help for injured ex military has no sense of shame given their reaction to the whole Fifa thing. As I said before the poppy is divisive here in Ireland mainly because Unionists mis-used it in the past and the legions over here are no different to orange halls with their fleg flying.
I used to live in the UK and I always thought the poppy was militaristic bollocks. They never looked after soldiers.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU