James McClean

[muppet]

I admire James McClean for his stance given where he is from and the whole history of Bloody Sunday. I also understand why the poppy is so popular in Scotland and England where it is genuinely sold and worn in solidarity with a military that is often abandoned by the very government it serves, same happens in the US and Rock Stars such as Springsteen, Mellencamp and Young whilst being anti war do benefits for veterans. In the wee 6 though it has always been used as a means of reminding the croppies of their place. I'm not surprised the IFA are looking to wear one it shows just how committed they are to football for all and fits in with the anthem and fleg. Ulster Rugby mindful of their fan base got the balance right and fair play to them.

It is important to give credit where credit is due. Fair play to them.

[seafoid]

Christ - you must actually believe the queen and country shite - I would estimate approximately 0% join armed forces anywhere (when not at war at least) to 'serve their country'. Its a job and an escape for many with little prospects, marketed to portray a touch of glamour.

Military means blind loyalty , nationalism and violence. US soldiers worship a flag. Brit soldiers worship a Queen. Israeli soldiers worship the idea that they are the most moral soldiers in the world.
They all emphasise service for country, meaningful sacrifice  and we will never forget the dead. FB is full of pictures of dead Vietnam soldiers accompanied by text saying please remember him. Underneath Yanks write "thank you for your service" . It is bizarre when you come from a country with no cult of the military except perhaps for the Sunday Independent.

Things like 11 Nov feed the machine with new recruits. All the pomp, the royals, the thin elite women, the glamour.  They are also big into uniforms.  A uniform can change a nobody into a somebody. Plámás.

I never saw any comedians take the piss out of the military.  It must be too sensitive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbAkTFGDr84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMc8AFK78XM

GRMA

[seafoid]

179 soldiers died for nothing

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/02/tony-blair-psychological-dominance-key-in-uk-joining-iraq-war-says-chilcot

Asked who was most responsible for the Iraq disaster, Chilcot answered: Blair, Straw, and defence secretary Geoff Hoon. Blair and Straw were more experienced and therefore most at fault, he suggested.
Chilcot said he was satisfied with the positive public reaction to his report. He said it was "particularly welcome" that it had been accepted by the bereaved families of the 179 British service personnel killed in Iraq between 2003-2009.
"As things stand I'm reasonably encouraged that there is an attempt in government to address those lessons," he added.
Chilcot said he was often asked what his most important finding was, at the end of a marathon exercise which eventually ran to 2.6m-words, and 12 volumes. After saying it was a "whole range of things" he offered an answer: "Failure to exert and exercise sufficient collective responsibility for a very big decision."
Andrew Tyrie, the chair of the Treasury select committee, said the parliamentary hearing had been a useful exercise. "Sir John has started to put the final pieces of his conclusions into the public domain," he said. Tyrie added that Blair "did not feel the need to be constrained by facts when putting his case to parliament".

[BennyCake]

For those who wear a Poppy, maybe they should concentrate on, and highlight the needless slaughter of millions in both wars (and others), and pressurize their government, to make sure it doesn't happen again.

As for wearing of poppies , basically people are honouring and remembering soldiers who invaded other countries and blew the heads off the natives. What's heroic and honourable about that?

[michaelg]

I admire James McClean for his stance given where he is from and the whole history of Bloody Sunday. I also understand why the poppy is so popular in Scotland and England where it is genuinely sold and worn in solidarity with a military that is often abandoned by the very government it serves, same happens in the US and Rock Stars such as Springsteen, Mellencamp and Young whilst being anti war do benefits for veterans. In the wee 6 though it has always been used as a means of reminding the croppies of their place. I'm not surprised the IFA are looking to wear one it shows just how committed they are to football for all and fits in with the anthem and fleg. Ulster Rugby mindful of their fan base got the balance right and fair play to them.

Sad you feel that way. I was raised in the unionist community and Rembrance Day Services at school and church were about remembering the war dead.  That was the start and end of it.  Sad that it has been politicised in the way that it has in recent years.  By the way, I too don't like the poppy fascism", as it's called, and fully respect people's right not to wear one.  What I don't like is the insinuation that people who wear them are on the wind up or putting people in their place as you seem to think.
With regards to Ulster Rubgy, what's your view on the permanent War Memorial that was retained when the ground was re-developed?   

[No wides]

In my place of work poppy's are always for sale and are worn with pride bet I couldn't wear an Easter Lilly.

[ashman]

I don't like the term "poppy facism".  At this stage the thing is boring .

[Hectic]

I don't like the term "poppy facism".  At this stage the thing is boring .

So we should look up the Thesaurus then to find an equally fitting term for the hijacking of genuine remembrance to spread propaganda???

[ashman]

I don't like the term "poppy facism".  At this stage the thing is boring .

So we should look up the Thesaurus then to find an equally fitting term for the hijacking of genuine remembrance to spread propaganda???

Don't like the using world fascism unless the subject is really that .  The poppy appeal is jingoistic , ridiculous and a circus . 

[Hectic]

I don't like the term "poppy facism".  At this stage the thing is boring .

So we should look up the Thesaurus then to find an equally fitting term for the hijacking of genuine remembrance to spread propaganda???

Don't like the using world fascism unless the subject is really that .  The poppy appeal is jingoistic , ridiculous and a circus .

Saves the reading.

[manfromdelmonte]

I don't like the cult of the poppy

However, I found the war memorial in Canberra very moving with the number of poppies for Australian soldiers killed fighting for the Brits

[Applesisapples]

I admire James McClean for his stance given where he is from and the whole history of Bloody Sunday. I also understand why the poppy is so popular in Scotland and England where it is genuinely sold and worn in solidarity with a military that is often abandoned by the very government it serves, same happens in the US and Rock Stars such as Springsteen, Mellencamp and Young whilst being anti war do benefits for veterans. In the wee 6 though it has always been used as a means of reminding the croppies of their place. I'm not surprised the IFA are looking to wear one it shows just how committed they are to football for all and fits in with the anthem and fleg. Ulster Rugby mindful of their fan base got the balance right and fair play to them.

Sad you feel that way. I was raised in the unionist community and Rembrance Day Services at school and church were about remembering the war dead.  That was the start and end of it.  Sad that it has been politicised in the way that it has in recent years.  By the way, I too don't like the poppy fascism", as it's called, and fully respect people's right not to wear one.  What I don't like is the insinuation that people who wear them are on the wind up or putting people in their place as you seem to think.
With regards to Ulster Rubgy, what's your view on the permanent War Memorial that was retained when the ground was re-developed?   

No issue with the memorial like many nationalists I have an uncle buried in Italy, killed at Monte Casino. But growing up in the North in the 60's and 70's the poppy like the union flag and the ulster banner were constantly used to remind us of our place. If unionists were genuinely interested in shared space they would not be so reluctant to give nationalist symbols etc equal status, but pigs will fly. Ulster Rugby have taken politics out of it and fair play.

[seafoid]

Militarism is part of Unionist identity. Queen, king Billy, the Somme, the orange order.   The poppy is all about the blood sacrifice of the Somme.Why is the identity  so tightly defined ? Because  its all bollocks. Before 1798 presbyterians were also vermin.

They don't know who they are. Settlers never do. Same in the States. So easy to manipulate.
Taigs can read a poem from 2000 years ago and see themselves in it. They can learn the language. They can go to Dún Chaoin. They can find a word in a de Bhaldraithe dictionary that makes sense of it all. Or it might be the curl of a point in Croker. Or 2003.

Unionists can't.  Cos there is no historical continuity. There is just violence back there. The insecurity never leaves them. 1641 is forever.

Doire is much older than Londonderry.

[BennyCake]

Had ww2 been the last conflict, the last British soldiers would now be in their late 80s. And in a few years all would be gone, and therefore the Poppy appeal becomes redundant, as no more servicemen need their help. When that happened, if people wanted to wear a Poppy, they should be given out for free. But the fact that wars have been ongoing since means there'll always be a need for the appeal.

So whatever way you look at it, even if someone protested about the invasions of Iraq/Afghanistan, they are supporting said invasions

[seafoid]

Had ww2 been the last conflict, the last British soldiers would now be in their late 80s. And in a few years all would be gone, and therefore the Poppy appeal becomes redundant, as no more servicemen need their help. When that happened, if people wanted to wear a Poppy, they should be given out for free. But the fact that wars have been ongoing since means there'll always be a need for the appeal.

So whatever way you look at it, even if someone protested about the invasions of Iraq/Afghanistan, they are supporting said invasions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-TrKy041Sk