Tuam Babies

[seafoid]

I was thinking about one of the greatest people that ever came out of Mayo, a county that is not far from Tuam.

"Davitt wanted to see the famous Land League slogan - "The land of Ireland for the people of Ireland" - expressed through land nationalisation, not peasant proprietorship. That was not to be, as he soon realised. His very success guaranteed that the subsequent national revolutionary movement initiated in 1916 took place within a framework of social conservatism laid down by the land revolution of the previous generation."

[armaghniac]

So cruel and  so sad. The Catholic Church were evil beyond belief. It's crazy that they still hold a prominent place in Irish society.

These events represented collusion among many people, parents, doctors, county councils, Gardai etc as well as the Church. There seems to be a view that all of the above have changed, but that they Church uniquely is still in the 1950s, which is oversimplified at best.

[Main Street]

It has to be repeated again and again that infant mortality in ireland was high among the poorest. High infant mortality figures were the effects of poverty ridden unsanitary conditions.
The unmarried mothers sent to these homes, by and large were from the poorest homes.

In the North, the state agencies did not like to interfere directly with such foster, mother/child institutions, they were regarded as a private arrangement between a family and their religion,
and they saved the state a fortune.

under law at the time, these homes did not have to have a qualified doctor or nurse on the staff
just think about that for a minute

to call a doctor would have cost money, which would have eaten into their bottom line (these places were basically a vehicle for smuggling new born babies to the states)
if something went wrong, the nuns had to deal with it.

Some absence of basic medical/sanitary care has to explain the infant mortality rate which remained at a very high level in this home, whilst infant mortality rates on the island dropped radically after 1945.

However, it's the added on mass burial after death which contrives images of WW2 mass graves for victims
and compounds the horror felt by people, that if you can't respect the dead infants with the dignity of a tiny individual plot, just how were they treated when they were alive or being born, it's as if the infants were non-human if not adopted.

[seafoid]

So cruel and  so sad. The Catholic Church were evil beyond belief. It's crazy that they still hold a prominent place in Irish society.

These events represented collusion among many people, parents, doctors, county councils, Gardai etc as well as the Church. There seems to be a view that all of the above have changed, but that they Church uniquely is still in the 1950s, which is oversimplified at best.

As per the 1930s to  1950s, there is a conspiracy of silence in Ireland. A code of Omerta among the professional classes protects the ineptitude across the institutions from banks through to the public service. There is zero accountability. 

[Far East]

Given the abuse, the torture, the rape, the cover ups etc etc. Why do people go to mass to hear the same organisation lecture them on right and wrong, to be indoctrinated in guilt and to allow your children be told that "they" are sinners. Why would any honest man become a priest to be part of these organisations when there are other options available to help people and to worship God.

I consider these questions to be truly one of life's great mysteries.


Great post........and the reason why my children won't be raised in the Catholic faith. I fully respect the reasons offered by posters who choose to let their kids be baptised/confirmed and make their own decisions at a later time.  However, these children run the risk of being indoctrinated by the same bastards who created the likes of Tony Fearon and Bernie Smyth.  That's too much of a risk to take with my children's morality and freedom of thought.  I want every decision my child makes to be influenced by truth, justice and the quality of their education, not the Catholic church, it's advocates and apologists.

[seafoid]

Seafoid, thanks for posting that video.  Very sad.

Even after  they leftt the gulag they were prisoners.

[manfromdelmonte]

And the state still allows the same religious institutions to run 90% of the education system in a Republic

Its just crazy

[Owen Brannigan]

It just gets worse........

Minister for Children Katherine Zappone

"We must accept that between 1940 and 1965, a recorded 474 so-called "unclaimed infant remains" were transferred from mother-and-baby homes to medical schools in Irish universities."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39224107?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland

[Armamike]

It just gets worse........

Minister for Children Katherine Zappone

"We must accept that between 1940 and 1965, a recorded 474 so-called "unclaimed infant remains" were transferred from mother-and-baby homes to medical schools in Irish universities."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39224107?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland

The poor children.  It's hard to fathom how inhumane the actions of these people were.  I don't know what their attitudes were towards these innocents, but we know how they behaved and treated the unlucky ones who never managed to make it out of this place and other similar places.  They certainly were not treated with any humanity, respect and dignity in death.  So God knows how they were treated during their short lives.  So so sad.  It's unlikely we'll ever hear the truth from the nuns and the church on this.  These people don't talk.

[seafoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DoAlothonQ

[seafoid]

Infant mortality rates for illegitimate kids in 30s to 50s were 5 times normal which were already high
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMLB1icn0w

[Main Street]

Infant mortality rates for illegitimate kids in 30s to 50s were 5 times normal which were already high
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMLB1icn0w

What is your exact point?
I have already stated repeatedly in this thread that the infant mortality rates dropped radically in the mid 1940s,
meanwhile the infant death rates in Tuam remained  a constant high right through the 1950s, according to the death certificates that Catherine unearthed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3053035/figure/F1/

[seafoid]

Infant mortality rates for illegitimate kids in 30s to 50s were 5 times normal which were already high
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMLB1icn0w

What is your exact point?
I have already stated repeatedly in this thread that the infant mortality rates dropped radically in the mid 1940's,
meanwhile the infant death rates in Tuam were a constant high.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3053035/figure/F1/

the difference between death rates for kids from families and those whose mothers were not married

[Main Street]

Got you, thanks.
Where did he get the 5 x figure from?
Based on unmarried mothers'  infant mortality statistics in general or just  from those who went to the institutions?

[vallankumous]

The poor children.  It's hard to fathom how inhumane the actions of these people were.  I don't know what their attitudes were towards these innocents, but we know how they behaved and treated the unlucky ones who never managed to make it out of this place and other similar places.  They certainly were not treated with any humanity, respect and dignity in death.  So God knows how they were treated during their short lives.  So so sad.  It's unlikely we'll ever hear the truth from the nuns and the church on this.  These people don't talk.

True but there are other ways to find out.

Ask your parents, grandparents, retired Gardai, long term or retired politicians, elder community activists within the church.
Ask what was their knowledge and attitude at the time to pregnant women being locked up and having their children taken away.
Ask if they had any knowledge of what happened these women and children during detention or what became of their children.
Ask if it happened to someone they know or if it might have happened to them if they had have fallen pregnant at a young age or while unmarried.
Ask if there's a possibility that some of them might have been the father if such a case did happen.

There are many social secrets in our communities about this.
I know of no one put in one of these homes but I do know of people forced to adopt their children and other who hid pregnancy through emigration or forced marriage.
I believe they might have been aware of their fate had they not done so.