Norn Iron Local Saccer - What is the point?

Started by Feckitt, January 16, 2011, 12:21:44 PM

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Evil Genius

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PMSweet jezuz, I've been subsumed in a sea of logorrhoea! (As per usual.)

Just taking this one (of your responses), however, since the only one that seems to attempt to stay on point:
"the only one that seems to attempt to stay on point" or the only one which you think you can challenge?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
According to http://ulster.gaa.ie/ , the 6 NI counties have the following number of affiliated Gaelic football or dual football/hurling clubs:
Antrim - 40
Armagh - 44
Derry - 38
Down - 45
Fermanagh - 21
Tyrone - 48
Total - 236

By contrast, the IFA has over 1,500 affiliated clubs:
http://www.irishfa.com/the-ifa/about-the-ifa/

That proves that there may be more affiliated soccer clubs than GAA clubs, that's all it proves. What you've omitted here are the numbers affiliated with each club, i.e., the membership, and without which absolutely nothing can be proven.
Unless the average Gaelic football club has over 6 times more playing members than the average soccer club, then soccer must have greater participation.

Which would make sense, seeing as soccer is played pretty much equally by Prods/Unionists and RC's/Nationalists, whereas GAA is played  hardly at all by the former population (the larger of the two, btw).

Which is only a reflection of the fact that many (Nationalist) predominantly GAA players also play a bit of soccer, whereas hardly any (Unionist) predominantly soccer players also play a bit of GAA.

And many soccer clubs have Reserve teams (some even 3rds, 4ths etc), such that there are even dedicated Reserves Leagues. Does GAA have Reserve Leagues of its own?

And how do you account for the fact that the NI Schools soccer Cup attracts 10 times as many entrants as its GAA equivalent (MacRory)?

And, of course, Womens' football in NI is sufficiently widespread to accommodate 7 separate Leagues/Divisions playing regularly during the seasonand is growing all the time:
http://www.niwfa.org/
Care to enlighten me on the equivalent figures for Womens' Gaelic Football in NI?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
Further, there are quite a few people who play soccer on an unaffiliated basis i.e. schools, parks, leisure centres, works teams, 5-a-side etc. Because of the nature of the game and the need for suitable pitches etc, like rugby, Gaelic football cannot have the same amount of unafiliated play.
Regarding the 'suitable' facilities for GAA and unaffiliated players... you're betraying your ignorance of school set-ups, for example, not to mention parks, etc.
I did not claim that there is no unaffiliated GAA played in NI.

However, there can be no doubt that due to the respective natures of the two games, plus the need for more specialised playing facilities etc, it is much easier to play soccer informally than GAA (just as it is for soccer versus rugby or cricket etc).

Oh and btw, I think you'll find soccer attracts more participants than Gaelic football in the Republic of Ireland, too, despite its not having a 54% block of the population which is largely indifferent towards GAA...
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

Aerlik

Quote from: All of a Sludden on January 17, 2011, 11:36:52 PM
Evil  Genius, without going too far off topic, why have you added that sectarian rag as your avatar? I am sure you are well aware that many on the gaaboard will find it offensive. Over the past week, the people of the north came together to unite in grief, even the dinosaurs in the main Unionist parties offered kind words, words that did not go unnoticed by anyone here.
Do you have any interest in the GAA or are you merely here to stir things up?


Agreed, considering I have had mine "banned"!

Anyways not to detract from the humour that is the Irish League...here's a bit of excitement for yiz all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvj65FE6uMM&NR=1
To find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God!

screenexile

Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2011, 12:50:25 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PMSweet jezuz, I've been subsumed in a sea of logorrhoea! (As per usual.)

Just taking this one (of your responses), however, since the only one that seems to attempt to stay on point:
"the only one that seems to attempt to stay on point" or the only one which you think you can challenge?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
According to http://ulster.gaa.ie/ , the 6 NI counties have the following number of affiliated Gaelic football or dual football/hurling clubs:
Antrim - 40
Armagh - 44
Derry - 38
Down - 45
Fermanagh - 21
Tyrone - 48
Total - 236

By contrast, the IFA has over 1,500 affiliated clubs:
http://www.irishfa.com/the-ifa/about-the-ifa/

That proves that there may be more affiliated soccer clubs than GAA clubs, that's all it proves. What you've omitted here are the numbers affiliated with each club, i.e., the membership, and without which absolutely nothing can be proven.
Unless the average Gaelic football club has over 6 times more playing members than the average soccer club, then soccer must have greater participation.

Which would make sense, seeing as soccer is played pretty much equally by Prods/Unionists and RC's/Nationalists, whereas GAA is played  hardly at all by the former population (the larger of the two, btw).

Which is only a reflection of the fact that many (Nationalist) predominantly GAA players also play a bit of soccer, whereas hardly any (Unionist) predominantly soccer players also play a bit of GAA.

And many soccer clubs have Reserve teams (some even 3rds, 4ths etc), such that there are even dedicated Reserves Leagues. Does GAA have Reserve Leagues of its own?

And how do you account for the fact that the NI Schools soccer Cup attracts 10 times as many entrants as its GAA equivalent (MacRory)?

And, of course, Womens' football in NI is sufficiently widespread to accommodate 7 separate Leagues/Divisions playing regularly during the seasonand is growing all the time:
http://www.niwfa.org/
Care to enlighten me on the equivalent figures for Womens' Gaelic Football in NI?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
Further, there are quite a few people who play soccer on an unaffiliated basis i.e. schools, parks, leisure centres, works teams, 5-a-side etc. Because of the nature of the game and the need for suitable pitches etc, like rugby, Gaelic football cannot have the same amount of unafiliated play.
Regarding the 'suitable' facilities for GAA and unaffiliated players... you're betraying your ignorance of school set-ups, for example, not to mention parks, etc.
I did not claim that there is no unaffiliated GAA played in NI.

However, there can be no doubt that due to the respective natures of the two games, plus the need for more specialised playing facilities etc, it is much easier to play soccer informally than GAA (just as it is for soccer versus rugby or cricket etc).

Oh and btw, I think you'll find soccer attracts more participants than Gaelic football in the Republic of Ireland, too, despite its not having a 54% block of the population which is largely indifferent towards GAA...

Right Evil Genius you are completely losing the run of yourself here. You've fired out a number of wild accusations which are completely unfounded.

I will start with some of your misconceptions.

The GAA has many Reserve Leagues. In Derry alone we have 3 Reserve Leagues along with the 4 1st Team Leagues. A number of clubs also have 3rds teams as well so wind your neck in!

Your point about the MacRory cup is also wrong as not any Tom Dick or Harry can enter the competition. There are 3 Sections for College's Football in Ulster which incorporate school's from every county. Within each County there are separate Vocational School's competitions which again will be tiered towards A, B & C Championships. My guess is numbers of schools would be on a par.

As for your comments about Womens Football well that is even more laughable!! NI have 7 Womens leagues playing at the minute?? Compare that with JUST Tyrone who have 4 Divisions that all play regularly not to mention the same for Minor, U16, U14 and a flourishing Ulster School's competition for that also. Derry who are a Junior County (C Grade on the All Ireland Scale) have 3 Divisions of Ladies football themselves!

There is also some nonsense about 6k people going to the Semi Professional teams each week. . . you are having a complete Giraffe there son! There is not a mission that there is any more than 3.5-4k MAX at ANY Irish League game barring Linfield Glentoran!

You can talk about numbers of clubs blah blah blah, but any GAA Club will field a minumum of 10 teams in any one season and some a lot more than that. My own Club fields 30 teams in all codes and there are many bigger than ours, tell me how many 'affiliated' IFA Clubs would you have to produce before you get that many teams??!!



Niall Quinn

Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
According to http://ulster.gaa.ie/ , the 6 NI counties have the following number of affiliated Gaelic football or dual football/hurling clubs:
Antrim - 40
Armagh - 44
Derry - 38
Down - 45
Fermanagh - 21
Tyrone - 48
Total - 236

By contrast, the IFA has over 1,500 affiliated clubs:
http://www.irishfa.com/the-ifa/about-the-ifa/

Further, there are quite a few people who play soccer on an unaffiliated basis i.e. schools, parks, leisure centres, works teams, 5-a-side etc. Because of the nature of the game and the need for suitable pitches etc, like rugby, Gaelic football cannot have the same amount of unafiliated play.

Below is a summary of the 'List of association football clubs in Northern Ireland' page from Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs_in_Northern_Ireland):
                                                                                                                                # Clubs
IFA Premiership                                                                                                             12
IFA Championship 1                                                                                                       14
IFA Championship 2                                                                                                       15
League of Ireland First Division                                                                                         1
Mid-Ulster Football League Int A                                                                                      12
Mid-Ulster Football League Int B                                                                                      12
Mid-Ulster Football League Div 1                                                                                      13
Ballymena & Provincial Intermediate League                                                                     14
Northern Ireland Intermediate League                                                                             12
Northern Amateur Football League - Premier Division                                                        14
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1A                                                               14
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1B                                                               13
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1C                                                               10
Derry and District League Northwest Saturday Morning League - Premier Division                10
Derry and District League Northwest Saturday Morning League - First Division                     12
Derry and District League Senior Sunday Morning League - Premier Division                       12
Derry and District League Senior Sunday Morning League - First Division                            13
Coleraine and District League - Premier League                                                                 9
Coleraine and District League - Morning League                                                               10
Total                                                                                                                           222
Back to the howling old owl in the woods, hunting the horny back toad

Maguire01

The 'participation' issue is bull in my opinion. How many of those who play soccer would have even a passing interest in seeing local soccer on the TV? They'e all watching the Premiership.

Banana Man

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 18, 2011, 08:06:24 AM
The 'participation' issue is bull in my opinion. How many of those who play soccer would have even a passing interest in seeing local soccer on the TV? They'e all watching the Premiership.

Not only that but all you need to be a soccer club is a set of jerseys and 11 players (that's right EG 4 less than a GAA team for a start, you also forgot to extrapolate that out). 11 lads that drink in a boozer can set up a soccer club by using the council pitch, a high schools' pitch or even a tech pitch, a lot of clubs exist for around 10 years or so then fall away, you aren't comparing apples with apples.

Also your childish remark regarding the ''bigger of the 2 populations'' is pathetic. It also clearly illustrates the high level of insecurity that you have that the big bad Fenian's are nearly on level pegging with you now and your complete detachment from reality.

take_yer_points

#51
Quote from: Niall Quinn on January 18, 2011, 04:00:00 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
According to http://ulster.gaa.ie/ , the 6 NI counties have the following number of affiliated Gaelic football or dual football/hurling clubs:
Antrim - 40
Armagh - 44
Derry - 38
Down - 45
Fermanagh - 21
Tyrone - 48
Total - 236

By contrast, the IFA has over 1,500 affiliated clubs:
http://www.irishfa.com/the-ifa/about-the-ifa/

Further, there are quite a few people who play soccer on an unaffiliated basis i.e. schools, parks, leisure centres, works teams, 5-a-side etc. Because of the nature of the game and the need for suitable pitches etc, like rugby, Gaelic football cannot have the same amount of unafiliated play.

Below is a summary of the 'List of association football clubs in Northern Ireland' page from Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs_in_Northern_Ireland):
                                                                                                                                # Clubs
IFA Premiership                                                                                                             12
IFA Championship 1                                                                                                       14
IFA Championship 2                                                                                                       15
League of Ireland First Division                                                                                         1
Mid-Ulster Football League Int A                                                                                      12
Mid-Ulster Football League Int B                                                                                      12
Mid-Ulster Football League Div 1                                                                                      13
Ballymena & Provincial Intermediate League                                                                     14
Northern Ireland Intermediate League                                                                             12
Northern Amateur Football League - Premier Division                                                        14
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1A                                                               14
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1B                                                               13
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1C                                                               10
Derry and District League Northwest Saturday Morning League - Premier Division                10
Derry and District League Northwest Saturday Morning League - First Division                     12
Derry and District League Senior Sunday Morning League - Premier Division                       12
Derry and District League Senior Sunday Morning League - First Division                            13
Coleraine and District League - Premier League                                                                 9
Coleraine and District League - Morning League                                                               10
Total                                                                                                                           222

You're missing quite a few there - a look at the drop down in the link below would give a more comprehesive list of the leagues.

http://www.nifootball.co.uk/index.php/clubs

I'm involved in a soccer club in Belfast - we have 2 teams and sometimes struggle to get enough players to play (and I know this is common across teams at the same standard). On the other hand, in the Gaelic club at home we field 8 teams in football and 2 camogie teams. I'm from a small village and we'd be considered a small club so I don't think it would be totally suprising if the average Gaelic club was 6 times (or more) bigger than the average soccer club.


snatter

Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2011, 12:50:25 AM

Which would make sense, seeing as soccer is played pretty much equally by Prods/Unionists and RC's/Nationalists, whereas GAA is played  hardly at all by the former population (the larger of the two, btw).


Highly debatable, EG, as to whether there actually is a Prods/Unionist majority in the north of Ireland of a playing age.

If the upper age limit of participants in both sports is a reasonable 40, and that the vast majority of participants are school aged (say aged between 6 and 16), it is probably the  RC/Nationalist population that is "the larger of the two".

From the much missed ulstersdoomed blog:

QuoteSince 50.4% of the 21 year-olds in 2001 were from a Catholic community background (against 46.3% who were from a Protestant community background), it is likely that the proportion of the children born in 2009 into a Catholic community background exceeds the proportion born into a Protestant community background. The size of the Catholic community lead is hard to measure at this stage, but the results of the Schools Census suggest that it could be as high as 10%. The next decennial census (in 2011) will throw more light on this.










deiseach

Quote from: Bogball XV on January 17, 2011, 10:09:08 PM
They probably shouldn't bother televising it tbh, do they have a choice though?  Is it all packaged with the summer olympics (many sports).

All that said the argument about coverage misses the point, I thought this thread was about the pointlessness or otherwise of local soccer.  It's obviously not pointless and the skill levels etc aren't bad, but, what should be questioned is the whether or not it should be professional?  Obviously it's up to each club to determine their own business plans and as long as they aren't going bust every few weeks like they do in the south, fair play to them. 
I like to see them get a few decent results in europe, cliftonville got a fantastic result against a croatian/serbian? side this year iirc and it's good to dream.  Overall the product could do with a lot of work though, the stadia and image that the fans portray are very unappealing.

The OP's subject (what's the point?) bears no relationship to his first post (why does soccer get so much coverage?). You're quite right about 'the point', the Irish League is the highest level of soccer in Northern Ireland and it doesn't matter whether it is any good or not, if you were to abolish it you'd still have to have a highest level. As for the coverage thing, the OWCer's say the live coverage of championship matches compared to IL/Cup matches mean the GAA gets disproportionate coverage while GAA types think that amount of correspondents sent to IL/Cup matches means soccer gets disproportionate coverage. Never the twain shall meet.

seafoid

I thought the point of showing Norn Irn soccer on telly was to allow Jackie Fullerton to reminisce about his agreeable playing career with Distillery or Instonions or whoever it was.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Mario

The GAA definitely draws more crowds to watch that NI soccer, outside the top 2 divisions in NI soccer, attendances for the average match would be lucky to reach 50 people. Any Senior Club GAA game would have more than this.

I don't think there is any argument in the amount of people who play each sport, i'd say there is at least double the number of Adults in NI who play soccer in comparison with gaelic. For a lot of people particularly in the amateur soccer leagues, the game is just about enjoyment, its taken a lot less seriously than say a Junior GAA team. A lot of GAA players stop playing senior football a few years after minors usually due to work/family commitments and they can't give the necessary time to the GAA. I'd say the drop out rates 5 years after minors is well over 50%.
I'd the number of children playing each sport would be similar, given all the GAA teams would have about 5 underage teams.

I think its wrong of GAA fans to claim the IL gets more coverage than the GAA, as has been pointed out already there is only 1 live soccer match shown all year, and a very brief highlights show each saturday which i actually quite enjoy watching.

MW

Quote from: Niall Quinn on January 18, 2011, 04:00:00 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
According to http://ulster.gaa.ie/ , the 6 NI counties have the following number of affiliated Gaelic football or dual football/hurling clubs:
Antrim - 40
Armagh - 44
Derry - 38
Down - 45
Fermanagh - 21
Tyrone - 48
Total - 236

By contrast, the IFA has over 1,500 affiliated clubs:
http://www.irishfa.com/the-ifa/about-the-ifa/

Further, there are quite a few people who play soccer on an unaffiliated basis i.e. schools, parks, leisure centres, works teams, 5-a-side etc. Because of the nature of the game and the need for suitable pitches etc, like rugby, Gaelic football cannot have the same amount of unafiliated play.

Below is a summary of the 'List of association football clubs in Northern Ireland' page from Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs_in_Northern_Ireland):
                                                                                                                                # Clubs
IFA Premiership                                                                                                             12
IFA Championship 1                                                                                                       14
IFA Championship 2                                                                                                       15
League of Ireland First Division                                                                                         1
Mid-Ulster Football League Int A                                                                                      12
Mid-Ulster Football League Int B                                                                                      12
Mid-Ulster Football League Div 1                                                                                      13
Ballymena & Provincial Intermediate League                                                                     14
Northern Ireland Intermediate League                                                                             12
Northern Amateur Football League - Premier Division                                                        14
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1A                                                               14
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1B                                                               13
Northern Amateur Football League - Division 1C                                                               10
Derry and District League Northwest Saturday Morning League - Premier Division                10
Derry and District League Northwest Saturday Morning League - First Division                     12
Derry and District League Senior Sunday Morning League - Premier Division                       12
Derry and District League Senior Sunday Morning League - First Division                            13
Coleraine and District League - Premier League                                                                 9
Coleraine and District League - Morning League                                                               10
Total                                                                                                                           222

I play in the Down Area League.

Does my club not exist then? :o

Maguire01

Quote from: MW on January 18, 2011, 11:08:09 PM
I play in the Down Area League.

Does my club not exist then? :o
If it's not on wikipedia, it doesn't count.

MW

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 16, 2011, 07:28:42 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 16, 2011, 01:08:27 PM
When is this "blanket coverage" you speak of? Ten minutes on a Saturday evening?

Every Saturday afternoon there's a live commentary and updates from all the grounds. Its absolutely dire to listen to the BBC commentators trying to make exciting.

That doesn't really make sense.

If you were actually interested in any league, then commentary and score updates from that league would be exciting, given that over the course of the average week there will quite probably be late winners/equalisers, teams coming back from a losing position, sendings off, controversial incidents, teams overtaking each other in the league table, etc, etc.