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Messages - seafoid

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18361
Tom friedman is a moron. so the world is flat now is it.

Here is a very good article from the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz.www.haaretz.com

Strenger than Fiction / Israel's bunker mentality
Israel is stuck in the belief that it is right, and everybody else is wrong and hence incapable of admitting that its policy vis-ŗ-vis the Palestinians has been disastrous.
By Carlo Strenger
There are two profound psychological blocks that do not allow Israelís leadership to get off its disastrous course, once again proven by the Gaza flotilla disaster: one is sheer fear, the other is self-righteousness.
Israel has real enemies like Iran and Hezbollah. Human psychology is such that fear often leads to freezing and hanging on to the same course of action, even if it proves disastrous time and again. As a result Israel doesnít listen to criticism - either from inside or from outside.
This inability to listen is reinforced by self-righteousness: Israel is stuck in the belief that it is right, and everybody else is wrong and hence incapable of admitting that Israeli policy vis-ŗ-vis the Palestinians has been disastrous; that Israel should have engaged with the Arab League peace initiative years ago, and that a U turn needs to be made. Admitting that one has been wrong is always difficult; but Israelís need for self-righteousness makes it even more difficult.
Israel fails to see the difference between its friends that care, but criticize Israel for its wrongheadedness and those who hate Israel and want its demise. Time and again Europeans who care for Israel tell me Ďwe want to support you; we want Israel to be a thriving country. We are in favor of the Zionist dream. But please tell us: why is your government so intent to harm Israel? Why does it drive away its friends? Why canít it listen to our advice? Is there anything we can do or say that will reach the hearts and minds of your leaders?í
This exasperation has been expressed publicly by French philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy, one of Israelís staunchest friends, who has been taking on Israelís critics from the European extreme left with force and courage for years. He writes that the state of mind of Israelís leadership that says Ďthe world doesnít understand usí and Ďdamn if we do and damn if we donít, so weíll just do what we wantí has reached the level of what he calls political autism.
When asked what could turn around Israelís leadership I am at a loss for an answer, because Israel doesnít even listen to critics from the inside. Some reacted to the Flotilla debacle emotionally. David Grossman wrote a moving piece in which he speaks of the shame he feels about Israelís actions. He expresses his pain about how far Israel has declined.
Others wrote in a more analytical vein. Amos Oz in a judicious op-ed in the New York Times speaks of the importance of realizing the limits of force; that Israel must start understanding that there is no way to defeat Hamas by military means, and that Israel can stop the current deterioration only by moving quickly towards a peace agreement with Fatah about a Palestinians state with East Jerusalem as its capital.
But Israelís leadership has gone into a bunker mentality. Like a city besieged in the times before telecommunications, nothing reaches its hearts and minds. To the extent they will even read Grossman, Oz, Levy and countless others, the reaction will be "all these pundits and intellectuals; what do they know about the world! We need to stick to our inner truth; we know whatís right for Israel. We donít need the usual gibberish of intellectuals; soft-hearted, unrealistic people who donít have a clue about how the real world works."
It may be more surprising that Israelís leadership doesnít even listen to its own professional intelligence echelon. During the media frenzy of the last days a crucial headline has received close to no attention: Mossad chief Meir Dagan told the Knessetís Foreign Relations Committee that Israel is gradually turning from a strategic asset into a liability for the United States of America.
As itís a bit difficult to brush aside Dagan as a softheaded idealist, our policy makers will find another way not to listen. They will say, "this would never have happened under George W. Bush; this is only because the Obama administration is not friendly towards Israel. We simply need to wait for Obama to end this term; he wonít get reelected."

Nothing could be further from the truth. I have heard warnings that Israel is becoming a strategic liability for the U.S. from Americans, including high ranking members of the George W. Bush administration, for years. The only difference is that during the Bush years, nobody in the administration would say this on record or for attribution.
I doubt the government will listen even to Dagan: Netanyahu is frozen; Moshe Ya'alon believes in Israelís eternal right to the Greater Israel; Eli Yishai has no clue about international relations; and Barak seems to have lost the ability to think clearly a long time ago.
I wish I could end on a note of optimism; I wish I could point out a psychological mechanism that will unblock Israelís leadership from fear and self-righteousness. But I share David Grossmanís despair. All that is left for those of us who want to save Israel from itself - whether Israelis, Jews in the Diaspora or gentiles - is to continue the call to reason, even if we donít know if, when and how it will be heard.


18362
Israeli society is autistic. I had lunch with an Israeli on Monday and he started going on about Gaza and how the world hates the Jews and the only time they cared was after the war but that there was no sincerity in it and since then they don't care and they will leave Israel defenceless and so Israel has to do it all by itself like the little red hen and the world can go f**k itself. That was it in a nutshell. It's the zionist meme. You can read it on any website where Zionists write. Word for word. That is how people are educated to think in Israel. Palestinians are an inferior and a defeated people. gideon Levy said that Israelis are really nice people and would help an old lady across the road but that something switches when it comes to the Palestinians. there can be no recognition of them as equals. Otherwise the whole structure of Zionism is in danger of collapse.   

You take the kids and conscript them in an army for 3 years where their job is to button down the population so that more settlements can be built. They whup the Palestinians so that Settlers can run around the west bank like they own the place. you can't do that to your kids and expect there to be no mental damage afterwards. The violence inherent in the occupation is corrupting Israeli society. It's unsustainable - you can't run a society on hatred for very long.   

Zochrot is a very interesting charity supported by Trocaire which exists to educated Israelis about what happened in 1948. they have some class videos on youtube. they run seminars and visits to sites of destroyed Palestinian villages and do things like put up replica street signs from the days when the villages existed, as a form of remembering.

Israel officialdom can't tolerate the signs. Zionism is too fragile. That is why they lash out the way they do. They cannot acknowledge the right of the Palestinians to be there.  They cannot acknowledge that Israel was founded as a settler colony which expelled the natives.  They cannot acknowlege that the land did not belong to them or their forebears.

18363
Isn't it mad that in this part of the world that Taig=Palestine Hun=Israel.

Mad.

If you go to Israel and fly into the airport in Lod you can see hills in the distance. That is where all the Taigs live. Israel took all the best land by the sea and shunted the Taigs into the hills. It was exactly the same during the plantation of Ulster. the taigs were shunted off the best land which was then given to the huns and the Taigs had to live in the hills.

there is one significant difference through. The Brits never herded Taigs into a concentration camp such as Gaza which is effectively a holding pen for all the Taig refugees south of Jaffa who were pushed out to make way for a land without a people for a  people without a land .  Even at their worst the Brits still had some decency.

18364
Hurling Discussion / Re: The gap between Munster and Leinster hurling
« on: June 01, 2010, 09:32:54 PM »
Interestingly, next year's Division 1 will have 4 Leinster teams in it (Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Offaly) and Galway from the Leinster Championship. There will only be 3 Munster teams in it. 

Munster hurling is clearly in crisis, is a disgrace, is on its knees, needs outside coaches from Leinster, needs something drastic!  ;D

Offaly and Wexford are going straight down again.  Offaly need Jose Mourinho and Wexford need a good strawberry season.
1-up, 1-down. They'd want to widen the trapdoor.

Offaly should play in NAMA then

18365
I'm still wondering what our government is doing about the kidnap of Irish citizens and their abduction to Israel, a place they had no intention of going to. Why is the Irish ambassador to the UN not raising the kidnap of Irish citizens at the security council, and demanding international sanctions against the perpetrators?

The abuse of our passports by Israeli agents was an indirect compromising of the security of our citizens. The seizure of our citizens on the high seas is an act of piracy and is an order of magnitude more serious. We should reasonably expect our government to defend our right to travel without let or hindrance and to protect us against attack, kidnapping and abduction. What did I pay Ä80 for a passport for?

No other state has molested Irish citizens in this way. When Irish citizens are kidnapped by guerillas or terrorists in other countries, we have Department Of Foreign Affairs officials, consuls and ambassadors on the job immediately. Where are they now? At the very least, we should be doing what Turkey is doing and telling the Israelis that an Air Corps plane will be landing in Tel Aviv in five hours time and they had better produce our citizens.

Compare Hillary Clinton's response to that torpedoed South Korean ship 10 days ago and what Israel did to those ships going to Gaza.
It's double standards all round.

18366
Some interesting posts here already but Skull and Seafoid's in particular caught my attention.  I have been following the situation in the Middle East since 1975 when as  young lad I saw the start of the Lebanese civil war on the TV at  home.  Ever since I have tried to keep up to date with what has been going on and have met and discussed the situation with many arabs.  We get enough of the pro-fascist/zionist view in our "mainstream" media.
Ever since the fall of the Iron Curtain Israel has been forced more and more into the vanguard of American interests in the region.  In the 6-day war in 1967 Israel, acting on information supplied by the Yanks attacked Egypt, Syrian and Jordan pulverising their forces, especially the air forces.  the arab countries were stunned and dishevelled afterwards.  Sadat took over from Nasser and quietly started rebuilding with the help of the Soviets.  When the 1973 October war started, the arab coalition was on the point of defeating Israel that it took the intercession of Nixon and Brezhnev to call off Sadat's troops as they were afraid of the void that might be left.  Better the devil you know and all that there.
As the Cold War progressed it was in the US interests to keep Israel as their bulwark just as they did with Japan, and so it continues to today.  Israel acts with total disregard for what others say as it is the puppet and the US is the puppetmaster.  Don't fool yourselves into thinking this was a stand alone issue without any intervention on the part of the US.  They more than likely were aware of what was going to happen.  Think Google Earth!!! 
As I have stated before, it is my belief that the US is trying to suffocate the rising influence of the Rus Fed and the Chinese on the global energy market.  The US have dwindling resources and are in debt to the eyeballs to the Chinese which actually own America when you think about it.  One only has to look at a map and draw a line along all of Russia's and China's borders to notice that practically every country on the other side is an ally of the US...except ONE.  Iran, hence the alleged positioning of the nuclear sub near Iran.  The oil rich countries of central Russia want to get their oil out but how?  Through countries effectively controlled by the USA.  And in China's case, it is now well known that China is a major supplier of foreign aid to some of the most corrupt regimes in Africa...and who is supplying the arms to oppose such regimes???  And so the Status quo remains.

One final thought...those of you with Foxtel.  Consider how Murdoch is using your money.   He isn't supporting the Palestinians that's for sure.

Israel has been doing its own thing under US cover since 1967 but now is is danger of losing popular support in the US as the generation that produced Alan Dershowitz dies off and Israel's real face comes to be revealed to people who believe in the values of liberal democracy and don't buy the guff that Zionism is liberal, regardless of the Jerusalem gay pride parade.
The millitary industrial settler machine is unstoppable and is driving Israel into apartheid  . It's like the hydra and it is going to take down the Jewish state since the system becomes more grotesque and cruel by the year. Ultimately there aren't enough Jews who want to live in Israel or palestinians who want to leave  to make apartheid a success.

Moshe dayan said "treat them like dogs. those who want to can leave" and that is the policy Israel has been running since 1948. the palestinians were all supposed to have disappeared by now. They are now more numerous in I/P than Jews and the gap will only get wider. Israel is sponsored by the reducing secular Jewish population and they keep the whole show on the road. If those people decide to leave in large numbers a la the educated unionists in NI the game is up. There is no HM treasury to bankroll the country a la northern Ireland.  The future for Israel looks very grim.

18367
It doesn't make sense what the Israelis did here.  They have an extremely well oiled propaganda machine and usually have a they started it argument before they go in all guns blazing, even if for all the thousands of rockets they claim are being fired at Israel none ever seem to hit a built up area (considering how much of Israel is a built up area).  Do the Israelis have a bigger strategy or are they just saying now 'F&*k you all we will do what we want and we don't care about PR exercises or how it looks anymore'.

Israel had to stop those ships from getting to Gaza and unloading their cargos. It is a ghetto that is being maintained by Israel and they want it kept that way. It is the beginning of the end for the Israeli occupation if those shops are allowed in, so they were stopped.

Israel has backed itself into a corner over Gaza. The siege punishes the people rather than Hamas and is a failure. Israel can't back down because it has no plan B. When the siege eventually collapses Hamas win a massive PR boost along the lines of what happened when Hezbollah kicked Israel out of Lebanon in 2000.  Ha'aretz wrote yesterday that the Israeli people support the punishment of the people of Gaza because of the hostage Shalit. It's like something out of WW2. Israel can only lose in this case.  Apartheid is going nowhere.

18368
Hurling Discussion / Re: The gap between Munster and Leinster hurling
« on: June 01, 2010, 01:49:29 PM »
Interestingly, next year's Division 1 will have 4 Leinster teams in it (Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Offaly) and Galway from the Leinster Championship. There will only be 3 Munster teams in it. 

Munster hurling is clearly in crisis, is a disgrace, is on its knees, needs outside coaches from Leinster, needs something drastic!  ;D

Offaly and Wexford are going straight down again.  Offaly need Jose Mourinho and Wexford need a good strawberry season.

18369
Hurling Discussion / Re: Munster 1st round Cork V Tipp
« on: June 01, 2010, 01:45:44 PM »
Babs out of order again but some home truths in there as well !!


Babs points finger at Tipp 'failures'


Tuesday June 01 2010

IN AN angry outburst, former manager Michael 'Babs' Keating has written off Tipperary's All-Ireland prospects

I love reading Babs interviews. He has no tact but is very entertaining.

18370
Normally Israel has a keen sense of Realpolitik, this suggests that they have become complacent. They have been particular allies of Turkey, yet they are treating the people on this ship in the same way as Palestinians.

the foreign minister is to the right of Putin and it is the most extremist government in the last 10 years. Even under a lefty government they went to war in 2006 and 2009.

18371
Quote
Someone said this is Israel's sharpeville. It will gain the attention of millions of people around the world. Things will never be the same again

I'd like to agree with you but I won't hold my breath. As for negative PR the Israelis couldn't give 2 F***s what the rest of the world thinks of them. I'm waiting to see what our esteemed TD Mr Shatter says about this.

Israel is like the moonies. It is a cult. Way out of line with what everyone else is thinking. It's getting worse with time. In the last 5 years there have been 2 wars, the 600 calorie a day Gaza diet, the Dubai assassination and now this.  Sanctions are only a matter of time. the generation who put the Holocaust above Arab human rights will soon be dead.  Israel is losing younger American Jews.  All it can rely on is the nutcase Christian right. I wouldn't put money on Israel making it to 100.

Sanctions against Israel will never happen.

Sanctions are inevitable. There will never be a Palestinian state. Israel has built to ensure there can't be.  Israel has a choice between giving the vote to the Palestinians or the alternative which is apartheid. Israel is now running a system of apartheid in the occupied territories. Liberal democracies won't touch it once the facade about peace runs out of road and the 2 state solution is seen for the dead letter it is.  Israel is no more rational than north Korea. Alan Shatter and Alan Dershowitz and the rest of that generation will stand up for Israel no matter what but once they die there will be nobody to replace them. the hypocrisy of the world's only Jewish democracy running a system of apartheid will turn off more and more people to the point where action will become inevitable.

Avigdor lieberman is just the start. In time Netanyahu will come to be seen as a moderate and Sahron as a visionary. That is how bad things will get for Israel.

the other thing is that nobody wants to emigrate to Israel any more. why not? It's not the kind of place you want to rear your children.
Put all of the trends into a formula and run them for 20 years. Israel is finished.   

18372
Quote
Someone said this is Israel's sharpeville. It will gain the attention of millions of people around the world. Things will never be the same again

I'd like to agree with you but I won't hold my breath. As for negative PR the Israelis couldn't give 2 F***s what the rest of the world thinks of them. I'm waiting to see what our esteemed TD Mr Shatter says about this.

Israel is like the moonies. It is a cult. Way out of line with what everyone else is thinking. It's getting worse with time. In the last 5 years there have been 2 wars, the 600 calorie a day Gaza diet, the Dubai assassination and now this.  Sanctions are only a matter of time. the generation who put the Holocaust above Arab human rights will soon be dead.  Israel is losing younger American Jews.  All it can rely on is the nutcase Christian right. I wouldn't put money on Israel making it to 100.

18373
it's a huge own goal for Israel. The PR was already bad after the attack on gaza in 2009.

There has been a serious drift to the right and with it a huge build up of hatred towards the Palestinians in Israel since the failure of the 2000 talks and it comes out in the open at times like this. The only answer is sanctions. 

Someone said this is Israel's sharpeville. It will gain the attention of millions of people around the world. Things will never be the same again.

18374
General discussion / Re: Teenage Cliques
« on: May 28, 2010, 11:19:14 AM »
Showing my age but there was a shower in my school that used to write the names of music bands/singers on their schoolbags.

There wasn't a canvas school bag in our school without the obligatory AC/DC, Iron Maiden or whoever painted and varnished over on the big flap lid.

Came in handy in the odd row as well as those metal buckle ends could do some damage.

where did all of those bikers go? What happened to all of those black leather jackets? 

18375
Tipp. used to be the Chateau Petrus of hurling and now you can buy a bottle for Ä3.99 in Centra in Thurles

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