Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin has said Fianna Fáil should change its leader before the General Election.
He said he has offered his resignation to the Taoiseach Brian Cowen. His resignation has not been accepted.
Speaking to the media this evening, he said that throughout his time as a Minister he has given his views in an honest open way.
He said that he has reluctantly concluded that Fianna Fáil should change its leader before the General Election.
He welcomed the Taoiseach's announcement this evening to table a vote of confidence in his leadership.
However, he said he will be voting against the vote of confidence and has offered his resignation to the Taoiseach.
He said the continuing decline of the party was a reason for his offering his resignation. Latest opinion polls, resignations post Christmas and the absence of direction of late has led him to the move. He said 'survival of the party is at stake'.
He said low morale within the party and unhappiness amongst the public was also a reason.
dunno why the former future leader of FF would really want to be the future leader of FF, at least now - it's like Willie Hague, I could never understand why he took the job when he did, there was little to gain. I don't think FF will be electable for at least two general elections (now that might not take too much time).
Personally I don't like the man, he's even more arrogant than most FFers, he's not going to bring anything new to the table, I suppose he reckons he needs the party leader's allowance to make up for the shortfall in income by not resigning?
The whiley Mayoman Pat Rabbitte hit the nail on the head during the week. He reckons that there is no point from a FF point of view in challenging Cowan in a leadership challenge now. Instead in typical FF style they will try and give an impression of potential next leader without having failed in a challenge, hopefully increasing their chances of re-election. This will also act as a shield to try and distance himself from Fianna Fáil, which is a joke as all current FF Ministers & T.D.'s share the guilt of the Fianna Fáíl party.
I see Baby Doc is going back to Haiti.
Will see a push to get Bertie back in charge of FF?
Martin has made a complete balls of this. Makes Richard Bruton's attempt to oust Enda look professional. If you offer your resignation you have to insist it's accepted FFS. At least the likes of Albert and (God forgive me) Pee Flynn had the courage of their convictions back in the early 90s when they opposed CJ.
Mary Hanafin has 24 hours to save her seat here in Dun Laoghaire. If she doesn't come out agin Cowen she is finished and the watery Barry Andrews will get the sole FF seat (prob on the last count).
Willie O'Dea on News at One confirming that he will be voting against the motion of confidence in Cowen.
Minister for Agriculture Brendan Smith confirming that will be voting for the motion of confidence.
Of those who have come out publicly so far, there is still a lot more backing Cowen than against him.
Heard Prof John Crown on the radio this morning, he reckons Martin was the worst Health Minister he has experienced and Harney the best (but he did say that the bar was extremely low), he talked a lot of sense I thought, very impressive.
He said Martin was worse even than Cowen, that Martin's response to everything to was to set up a committee to investigate the issue, thus puching it down the road for another minister to have to make a decision on. He did commend him on the smoking ban though.
Quote from: Tubberman on January 17, 2011, 01:19:58 PM
Willie O'Dea on News at One confirming that he will be voting against the motion of confidence in Cowen.
Minister for Agriculture Brendan Smith confirming that will be voting for the motion of confidence.
Of those who have come out publicly so far, there is still a lot more backing Cowen than against him.
Its easy to say it in public, but with a private ballot, i'm sure a few will switch. I have met Martin a couple of times through work and i have to say what an under-whelming experience, i dont think he is the man FF are looking for. As for not resigning from the cabinet, he is f****d. I think Mary Hanifin is the one to watch here, especially after the election. Who better to lead FF that a conservative catholic, sure she might get the church back in to the tent with her instead of the builders. They still have plenty of money and land!!
FF lost whatever veneer of competence they might have had in November over one week when Mary Hanafin said she gave assurance about there being no bailout without having been briefed and then blamed it on jetlag, Dick Roche told Prime Time "but without the guarantee we'd be in an awful state now, Miriam", Pat Carey got bitchslapped on live TV by Pat Rabbitte , Baz Andrews defended the bailout and the protection of bondholders as in the best interest of the taxpayer and Tony Killeen lost his cool with Fintan O Toole in front of the nation. And where were the senior ministers? Nowhere to be seen.
Who cares who leads FF from now on? The party has failed the people.
Martin (and the other aspiring Fianna Fáil leaders) haven't shown themselves up in a terribly good light during this. They've shown themselves to be weak and indecisive. It looks like Cowen will pull through tomorrow but the damage to Fianna Fáil has already been done.
In many respects the biggest problem for the aspiring leaders will be getting re-elected. Martin in on shaky ground in Cork South Central, Hanifan on shaky ground in Dun Laoghaire and Lenihan fighting for a seat in a strong field in Dublin West. O Cuiv is the only one who would appear safe and he's a Cowen loyalist (ie won't stick the knife in but interested in the job). Indeed in listening to a relatively influential Fianna Fáiler the other day he seemed to think that O Cuiv could be kingmaker and that he was very influential within the party.
As regards taking the Fianna Fáil job on now, it could be argued that you couldn't be taking over at a better time. Enda Kenny took over from Michael Noonan in 2002 when Fine Gael were threatened by extinction and re-built the party. Whether he's the best option as leader now is irrelevent he's looking increasingly like the next Taoiseach. Fianna Fáil need someone now that wants to rebuild their organisation from the ground up. Get rid of the paper cumann and start again from scratch. Too long in government has set their organisation back years
Cowen is trying to imitate Mussolini, albeit some deranged barstool version. FF are between a rock and a hard place. Probably will end up with a litter of ineffectual party leaders like Martin.
Save the names and pictures before they disappear from irish politics forever
http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/listing/
I think we'll all be surprised at how well the party does in the next general election; they'll not win, but niether wiped out. Martin may have been part of a pre-election campaign? Who shot JFK?
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2011, 02:20:37 PM
FF lost whatever veneer of competence they might have had in November over one week when Mary Hanafin said she gave assurance about there being no bailout without having been briefed and then blamed it on jetlag, Dick Roche told Prime Time "but without the guarantee we'd be in an awful state now, Miriam", Pat Carey got bitchslapped on live TV by Pat Rabbitte , Baz Andrews defended the bailout and the protection of bondholders as in the best interest of the taxpayer and Tony Killeen lost his cool with Fintan O Toole in front of the nation. And where were the senior ministers? Nowhere to be seen.
Who cares who leads FF from now on? The party has failed the people.
That's it in a nutshell. It should be wound up.
These battles are marathons, not sprints. Way to early to call it at the moment.
I expect Martin to resign as Minister this week though one way or another.
QuoteWho cares who leads FF from now on? The party has failed the people.
That's exactly my feelings. I come from a FF family, but I don't see anyone rushing to vote for Calleary next time around... Martin says the future of FF is at stake, but who cares about the future of FF really, when the future of Ireland is much, much more important.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 17, 2011, 04:53:50 PM
QuoteWho cares who leads FF from now on? The party has failed the people.
failed the people? what make anyone think these shower ever cared about 'the people' they only care about themselves and their mates
Thought it was telling the night FF finally admitted the bailout he came out with " Sometimes the interest of the country comes before party".
For FF it seems to be that what is best for FF is best for the country.
I can't stand that weasel Barry Andrews future leader my arse.
Whole family of silver spooned knobs, Tubridy included.
Well, Hanafin bottled that one on The Frontline.
Interesting to see the yokes I'll have to decide to vote for soon.
Hobson's choice.
Shame the Christian Solidary Party candidate couldn't make it! Or the Shinners.
Have none of you copped on yet that it is not a failure of FF,FG,Labour etc that has brought the country to its current sad state. It is the rotten corrupt political system which needs fixing. The discourse from all parties, with one honourable exception, is centred on how to restore this rotten system to a workable state, as all the main parties benefit from it, in terms of Money,influence and power. The vast majority of citizens have been and will be kept outside of the power loop, while clienttelism will continue to reign supreme and ensure the continuance of the dynasties. Democratic election my arse. Rest assured none of you will be any better off after it.
Quote from: Orangemac on January 17, 2011, 11:26:46 PM
I can't stand that weasel Barry Andrews future leader my arse.
Whole family of silver spooned knobs, Tubridy included.
Baz's older brother is a comedian and he has more integrity than all of the
politicians in the family put together.
FF are incompetent. The great election winning machine is useless if the TDs can't protect the taxpayers' interest.
People say maybe they'll regroup under a new leader but what is to come economy wise is far worse than has been seen to date and it is entirely the fault of FF. The system is broken. FF broke it.
Lendahand backing Cl owen - One RTE news at 1
Did Lenihan mislead the back benchers?
John McGuiness who was a big supporter of Lenihan is turning on him. He said he did encourage dissent.
Blood on floor now. McGuinness accusing Lenny of conspiring against Cowen and finds his current support of Cowen to be "shocking".
They're saying Cowen reckons he has 40 votes, based on his conversations with parliamentary party members. I can't believe he's so naive, unless the 40 is already factoring in the minimum of 25% who have lied to him.
Quote from: Pangurban on January 18, 2011, 01:01:40 AM
Have none of you copped on yet that it is not a failure of FF,FG,Labour etc that has brought the country to its current sad state. It is the rotten corrupt political system which needs fixing. The discourse from all parties, with one honourable exception, is centred on how to restore this rotten system to a workable state, as all the main parties benefit from it, in terms of Money,influence and power. The vast majority of citizens have been and will be kept outside of the power loop, while clienttelism will continue to reign supreme and ensure the continuance of the dynasties. Democratic election my arse. Rest assured none of you will be any better off after it.
there's some truth in that, but name me a country where there is true democracy - even athens, the birthplace of democracy only allowed the elite to vote.
Quote from: Hardy on January 18, 2011, 02:55:33 PM
They're saying Cowen reckons he has 40 votes, based on his conversations with parliamentary party members. I can't believe he's so naive, unless the 40 is already factoring in the minimum of 25% who have lied to him.
I don't think so Hardy - Cowen is anything but naive. He has the numbers alright, otherwise there's no way that he would be cocky enough to call a confidence vote - by secret ballot - in himself. Getting Martin to bottle his resignation merely sealed the deal.
So today's a non-event, but it might be the beginning of the end for Cowen.
Biffo wins but what does he win ? FF are all over the place.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2011, 09:44:50 PM
Biffo wins but what does he win ? FF are all over the place.
Sure they're no different from Fine Gael's similar fiasco by Bruton last summer. They're all a complete bunch of pillocks IMO.
The other parties will be delighted with this. FF shot themselves in the foot.
Name 3 decent honourable politicians you'd vote for in the Rep of Ireland?
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 18, 2011, 09:54:23 PM
The other parties will be delighted with this. FF shot themselves in the foot.
i honestly think it's pretty irrelevant, if they get more than 35 seats it will be a miracle, if they get less than 30 seats it'll be the same. Today was extremely unlikely to change anything either way?
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 18, 2011, 10:01:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 18, 2011, 09:54:23 PM
The other parties will be delighted with this. FF shot themselves in the foot.
i honestly think it's pretty irrelevant, if they get more than 35 seats it will be a miracle, if they get less than 30 seats it'll be the same. Today was extremely unlikely to change anything either way?
Labour's no confidence motion looks more interesting now though. Can Martin and the other rebels vote for him as Taoiseach after saying he isn't fit to lead de party?
This the end of FF as we know it. It looks like Linehan has turned them all over, the bitterness has started. Martin has already had a few digs at Linehan on prime time. Its the end of the world as FF know it and good riddance. Enda and Gerry A. are popping the champagne corks tonight. FF will do well to hit the 14 per cent now. To look at the smug pus of Donie Cassidy tonight was enough to nearly make me vomit.
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 18, 2011, 09:59:07 PM
Name 3 decent honourable politicians you'd vote for in the Rep of Ireland?
Could say the same about your country
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 18, 2011, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 18, 2011, 09:59:07 PM
Name 3 decent honourable politicians you'd vote for in the Rep of Ireland?
Could say the same about your wee country
Corrected that for you. :P
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 18, 2011, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 18, 2011, 09:59:07 PM
Name 3 decent honourable politicians you'd vote for in the Rep of Ireland?
Could say the same about your country
It was not a dig at Ireland, it was a dig at politics in Ireland. Gerry Kelly, Michelle Gildernew and Conor Murphy do good jobs imo
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 18, 2011, 09:59:07 PM
Name 3 decent honourable politicians you'd vote for in the Rep of Ireland?
Jerry Cowley, Joe Higgins, Michael D Higgins
whos the new foreign affairs minister
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2011, 10:08:25 AM
Quote from: Big Puff on January 18, 2011, 10:28:54 PM
whos the new foreign affairs minister
Seanie Fitz
He's earmarked for Governor of the Central Bank.
Jackie Healy-Rae will be Foreign Affairs.
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2011, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 18, 2011, 10:01:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 18, 2011, 09:54:23 PM
The other parties will be delighted with this. FF shot themselves in the foot.
i honestly think it's pretty irrelevant, if they get more than 35 seats it will be a miracle, if they get less than 30 seats it'll be the same. Today was extremely unlikely to change anything either way?
Labour's no confidence motion looks more interesting now though. Can Martin and the other rebels vote for him as Taoiseach after saying he isn't fit to lead de party?
Yes.
FF have no shame, no morals and no regard for 'optics'. Their sole concern is staying in power.
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2011, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 18, 2011, 10:01:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 18, 2011, 09:54:23 PM
The other parties will be delighted with this. FF shot themselves in the foot.
i honestly think it's pretty irrelevant, if they get more than 35 seats it will be a miracle, if they get less than 30 seats it'll be the same. Today was extremely unlikely to change anything either way?
Labour's no confidence motion looks more interesting now though. Can Martin and the other rebels vote for him as Taoiseach after saying he isn't fit to lead de party?
Yes and of course they will. Party politics especially in this country is disgusting.
Quote from: HowAreYeGettinOn on January 19, 2011, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2011, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 18, 2011, 10:01:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 18, 2011, 09:54:23 PM
The other parties will be delighted with this. FF shot themselves in the foot.
i honestly think it's pretty irrelevant, if they get more than 35 seats it will be a miracle, if they get less than 30 seats it'll be the same. Today was extremely unlikely to change anything either way?
Labour's no confidence motion looks more interesting now though. Can Martin and the other rebels vote for him as Taoiseach after saying he isn't fit to lead de party?
Yes.
FF have no shame, no morals and no regard for 'optics'. Their sole concern is staying in power.
FF have a bad dose of the political equivalent of "boidín foolish". They just can't stop at this stage. Ruin awaits.
Twitter and p.ie getting all excited about some big political news RTE at 9.
My guess is that Mary Harney has been named at tight-head for Ireland in the re-shuffle.
It's Mary Harney alright. Quit as Minister and not standing for reelection.
'health' minister? Is she an Indo?
'Tis bad for them when the baby whales are jumping ship too.
Last of the PD Dinosaurs and the party dies (hopefully).
I can't take credit for this one, but it gave me a chuckle:
Mary Harney wanted to quit last week. Cowen put her on a waiting list.
Glad to see the back of this poisonous wench.
Harney sums up all that is wrong with politics.
13 years of being a minister. Can she list 5 achievements during this time?
Ruining the health service, getting a $400 haircut and riding in a car through New Zealand on St Patricks day like something that was let out for the weekend.
And now she will retire on 2 pensions and be appointed to some semi state board.
Pathetic, the only time she will ever do without is when McDonalds is shut.
Surely she is the best argument that ministers/politicians should only be allowed to serve for a max period.
Ahern, Dempsey and Killeen all officially gone now as well as Martin and Harney. That is 6 Cabinet seats to fill for Cowen.
The 4 lads and both of Harney's seats. ;D
Grenns to go today as well i'd say. Gogarty is on Morning Ireland now, more or less saying no new appointments or they will plug the plug.