Money, Dublin and the GAA

[Hound]

I think the 'financial doping' accusation is pretty appropriate in this context.
Take a supremely fit athlete, who trains hard, eats all the right food, gets 8 hours sleep etc.
Now, give him steroids, growth hormone, EPO etc.
He was already a brilliant athlete, working as hard as he could, now you've made him unbeatable.
This is what a lot of Dublin fans don't seem to understand.
Nobody is saying this Dublin team, and by extension the county board, haven't put in trojan work over many years to reach this point.
In the same way the Kilkenny county board had their systems & structures in place for their glory years.
The difference between the two examples is the massive injection of money that Dublin received, which (per capita) is far in excess of that available to other counties.
You can replicate hard work.
You can't replicate money.

Think you're way too harsh on us Jinxy.

"The money" doesn't go to the elite players! At any level.

Yes, our senior players are extremely well looked after due to the AIG and other sponsors' money. They don't have to waste time and energy fundraising, like they used to have to, and other counties still do. I'm sure Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone senior players are very well looked after too. All players in every county still have to do their day job, and Dublin are absolutely no better off in that regard than anyone else, with the exception of a key advantage of all our lads working and living in probably a 30 mile radius.

"The money" goes into capital projects and trying to increase numbers playing and goes to both codes equally.

People can believe what they want, and if they want to believe that the main reason Dublin have won 4 All Irelands in a row is because of development grant money, then they can kid themselves all they want. And they can ignore the fact we have the best manager in the country, a top freetaker, the most intelligent team we've ever had, some lads with frightening pace, athleticism and fielding ability, no team works harder, and the best keeper ever to play the game. The 16m development funds played not a single part in those attributes. 

At 5-1 down, the lightening fast, inch perfect, kickout by Cluxton right into the path of the bullet-like McCaffrey as he charged down the field, the intelligent run and leadership qualities of Kilkenny to demand the ball, and the ability to stick it over the black spot. Back in the game.
You'd wanna be fairly bitter to really believe that money bought that. 

[screenexile]

I think the 'financial doping' accusation is pretty appropriate in this context.
Take a supremely fit athlete, who trains hard, eats all the right food, gets 8 hours sleep etc.
Now, give him steroids, growth hormone, EPO etc.
He was already a brilliant athlete, working as hard as he could, now you've made him unbeatable.
This is what a lot of Dublin fans don't seem to understand.
Nobody is saying this Dublin team, and by extension the county board, haven't put in trojan work over many years to reach this point.
In the same way the Kilkenny county board had their systems & structures in place for their glory years.
The difference between the two examples is the massive injection of money that Dublin received, which (per capita) is far in excess of that available to other counties.
You can replicate hard work.
You can't replicate money.

Think you're way too harsh on us Jinxy.

"The money" doesn't go to the elite players! At any level.

Yes, our senior players are extremely well looked after due to the AIG and other sponsors' money. They don't have to waste time and energy fundraising, like they used to have to, and other counties still do. I'm sure Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone senior players are very well looked after too. All players in every county still have to do their day job, and Dublin are absolutely no better off in that regard than anyone else, with the exception of a key advantage of all our lads working and living in probably a 30 mile radius.

"The money" goes into capital projects and trying to increase numbers playing and goes to both codes equally.

People can believe what they want, and if they want to believe that the main reason Dublin have won 4 All Irelands in a row is because of development grant money, then they can kid themselves all they want. And they can ignore the fact we have the best manager in the country, a top freetaker, the most intelligent team we've ever had, some lads with frightening pace, athleticism and fielding ability, no team works harder, and the best keeper ever to play the game. The 16m development funds played not a single part in those attributes. 

At 5-1 down, the lightening fast, inch perfect, kickout by Cluxton right into the path of the bullet-like McCaffrey as he charged down the field, the intelligent run and leadership qualities of Kilkenny to demand the ball, and the ability to stick it over the black spot. Back in the game.
You'd wanna be fairly bitter to really believe that money bought that.

Even if we take it that the lads playing now aren't seeing the benefit of that money surely you have to see that the current crop of Elite players were taking advantage of the money pumped into the grass roots in the last 10 years!!!

[Hound]

Even if we take it that the lads playing now aren't seeing the benefit of that money surely you have to see that the current crop of Elite players were taking advantage of the money pumped into the grass roots in the last 10 years!!!

That's exactly it, they weren't!

Every lad would be coached by parents during their club careers. Then when they go onto Dublin development panels, they'd be coached by unpaid ex Dubs players.

While there's the odd exception, the vast majority of the paid coaches are young people, with little or no experience. They wouldn't be let near the senior teams or better underage teams. Most of their time is spent going to National Schools giving PE classes to primary school children and encouraging them to join the club where the parents take over. They'll run classes "train the trainer" type for the volunteer parents have little/no experience to teach them the basic skills and how to teach the basic skills. Nothing about tactics, etc. The parents with senior playing experience or who have coached for a while would tend not to go with those, as they'd know more than the young paid coach.

[Maroon Manc]

I wonder how viewing figures for this years football championship games compare with figures from the last 10 years.

[Dinny Breen]

Hound giving Joseph Goebbels a run for his money.

This amused me on Twitter.

To be fair, this Dublin team are a great example of what can be achieved with attitude, physicality, home advantage, professional coaching and 10 times the development money of your nearest rivals for last 15 years.

I think Jim Gavin said that, after saying these guys don't benefit financially from playing for Dublin, just before he drove off to the Gibson Hotel in his Subaru before flying out today with Aer Lingus to America.

[screenexile]

Even if we take it that the lads playing now aren't seeing the benefit of that money surely you have to see that the current crop of Elite players were taking advantage of the money pumped into the grass roots in the last 10 years!!!

That's exactly it, they weren't!

Every lad would be coached by parents during their club careers. Then when they go onto Dublin development panels, they'd be coached by unpaid ex Dubs players.

While there's the odd exception, the vast majority of the paid coaches are young people, with little or no experience. They wouldn't be let near the senior teams or better underage teams. Most of their time is spent going to National Schools giving PE classes to primary school children and encouraging them to join the club where the parents take over. They'll run classes "train the trainer" type for the volunteer parents have little/no experience to teach them the basic skills and how to teach the basic skills. Nothing about tactics, etc. The parents with senior playing experience or who have coached for a while would tend not to go with those, as they'd know more than the young paid coach.

Yes these young coaches who have probably gone through a rigorous selection programme which would demand a lifetime in the GAA and a University education then upon obtaining the role they are delivering the the best funded coaching programme the sport has ever seen!!

I was in Dublin 2006 and Enda McNulty was the Coaching officer for Ballyboden and they had 2 at that stage for one club. . . You can't tell me that the younger lads on the Dublin team have not been receiving the benefit from it it's crazy to suggest otherwise!!

[seafoid]

Hound giving Joseph Goebbels a run for his money.

This amused me on Twitter.

To be fair, this Dublin team are a great example of what can be achieved with attitude, physicality, home advantage, professional coaching and 10 times the development money of your nearest rivals for last 15 years.

I think Jim Gavin said that, after saying these guys don't benefit financially from playing for Dublin, just before he drove off to the Gibson Hotel in his Subaru before flying out today with Aer Lingus to America.

If a few counties refused to take part next year would it help?
The championship has its own momentum which distracts from the problem with the system. So do the crowds at the final and all the media excitement. The GAA doesn't seem to know what to do.

[Saffronista]

I think the 'financial doping' accusation is pretty appropriate in this context.
Take a supremely fit athlete, who trains hard, eats all the right food, gets 8 hours sleep etc.
Now, give him steroids, growth hormone, EPO etc.
He was already a brilliant athlete, working as hard as he could, now you've made him unbeatable.
This is what a lot of Dublin fans don't seem to understand.
Nobody is saying this Dublin team, and by extension the county board, haven't put in trojan work over many years to reach this point.
In the same way the Kilkenny county board had their systems & structures in place for their glory years.
The difference between the two examples is the massive injection of money that Dublin received, which (per capita) is far in excess of that available to other counties.
You can replicate hard work.
You can't replicate money.

Think you're way too harsh on us Jinxy.

"The money" doesn't go to the elite players! At any level.

Yes, our senior players are extremely well looked after due to the AIG and other sponsors' money. They don't have to waste time and energy fundraising, like they used to have to, and other counties still do. I'm sure Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone senior players are very well looked after too. All players in every county still have to do their day job, and Dublin are absolutely no better off in that regard than anyone else, with the exception of a key advantage of all our lads working and living in probably a 30 mile radius.

"The money" goes into capital projects and trying to increase numbers playing and goes to both codes equally.

People can believe what they want, and if they want to believe that the main reason Dublin have won 4 All Irelands in a row is because of development grant money, then they can kid themselves all they want. And they can ignore the fact we have the best manager in the country, a top freetaker, the most intelligent team we've ever had, some lads with frightening pace, athleticism and fielding ability, no team works harder, and the best keeper ever to play the game. The 16m development funds played not a single part in those attributes. 

At 5-1 down, the lightening fast, inch perfect, kickout by Cluxton right into the path of the bullet-like McCaffrey as he charged down the field, the intelligent run and leadership qualities of Kilkenny to demand the ball, and the ability to stick it over the black spot. Back in the game.
You'd wanna be fairly bitter to really believe that money bought that.

Fully agree Hound, money can buy you all the best facilities, equipment, gear etc etc but without technical skill set, commitment, motivation and hunger it would be as well thrown into the Liffey!

Dublin are raising the bar, year on year, in terms of tactics, athleticism, fitness and skill... its up to the rest who wants to work to bridge the gap.

[Hound]

Hound giving Joseph Goebbels a run for his money.

This amused me on Twitter.

To be fair, this Dublin team are a great example of what can be achieved with attitude, physicality, home advantage, professional coaching and 10 times the development money of your nearest rivals for last 15 years.

I think Jim Gavin said that, after saying these guys don't benefit financially from playing for Dublin, just before he drove off to the Gibson Hotel in his Subaru before flying out today with Aer Lingus to America.

If none of Jim Gavin, Declan Darcy and Jason Sherlock get paid, is it still "professional coaching" because they are so much better than most others?
I think we pay a dietician or something. But so do a lot of other counties.
A lot of players in other counties get use of a car also, and any team that wins the All Ireland can count on a free holiday. Many that don't win it get a free holiday.
But glad that tweet cheered you up.

[Rossfan]

I think the 'financial doping' accusation is pretty appropriate in this context.
Take a supremely fit athlete, who trains hard, eats all the right food, gets 8 hours sleep etc.
Now, give him steroids, growth hormone, EPO etc.
He was already a brilliant athlete, working as hard as he could, now you've made him unbeatable.
This is what a lot of Dublin fans don't seem to understand.
Nobody is saying this Dublin team, and by extension the county board, haven't put in trojan work over many years to reach this point.
In the same way the Kilkenny county board had their systems & structures in place for their glory years.
The difference between the two examples is the massive injection of money that Dublin received, which (per capita) is far in excess of that available to other counties.
You can replicate hard work.
You can't replicate money.

Think you're way too harsh on us Jinxy.

"The money" doesn't go to the elite players! At any level.

Yes, our senior players are extremely well looked after due to the AIG and other sponsors' money. They don't have to waste time and energy fundraising, like they used to have to, and other counties still do. I'm sure Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone senior players are very well looked after too. All players in every county still have to do their day job, and Dublin are absolutely no better off in that regard than anyone else, with the exception of a key advantage of all our lads working and living in probably a 30 mile radius.

"The money" goes into capital projects and trying to increase numbers playing and goes to both codes equally.

People can believe what they want, and if they want to believe that the main reason Dublin have won 4 All Irelands in a row is because of development grant money, then they can kid themselves all they want. And they can ignore the fact we have the best manager in the country, a top freetaker, the most intelligent team we've ever had, some lads with frightening pace, athleticism and fielding ability, no team works harder, and the best keeper ever to play the game. The 16m development funds played not a single part in those attributes. 

At 5-1 down, the lightening fast, inch perfect, kickout by Cluxton right into the path of the bullet-like McCaffrey as he charged down the field, the intelligent run and leadership qualities of Kilkenny to demand the ball, and the ability to stick it over the black spot. Back in the game.
You'd wanna be fairly bitter to really believe that money bought that.

Fully agree Hound, money can buy you all the best facilities, equipment, gear etc etc but without technical skill set, commitment, motivation and hunger it would be as well thrown into the Liffey!

Dublin are raising the bar, year on year, in terms of tactics, athleticism, fitness and skill... its up to the rest who wants to work to bridge the gap.

Them lazy Laythrum hoors.....
If they'd only do a bit of work they could do 4 in a row too.

[highorlow]

1. Jim Gavin (manager): Since taking over in 2012, the former Under-21 manager has won three All-Irelands, four Leinster titles and four Allianz Leagues.

2. Brian Doyle (sports administrator): Works with head of high performance Bryan Cullen (not pictured).

3. Ray Boyne (head of performance analysis): On and off, the Ulster Bank employee has been crunching numbers for Dublin teams since 2003.

4. Mick Deegan (selector): Gavin's right-hand man since 2012, he is the manager's voice on the sideline - passing instructions to the players.

5. Jonathan Courtney (backroom team): The former Sarsfields (Kildare) manager is a former colleague of Gavin's in the defence forces.

6. Niall Barry (physio): The chartered physiotherapist has also worked with Leinster Rugby, Cricket Ireland and Clontarf Rugby.

7. Chris Farrell (cameraman): Involved with Gavin's All-Ireland winning Under-21s in 2012, he shoots match footage for analysis.

8. Tony Boylan (logistics): Looks after the transport of all kit and equipment.

9. Davy Byrne (goalkeeping coach): The former Dublin player has the happy task of honing the skills of Stephen Cluxton - who already held the number 1 shirt when Byrne retired in 2002.

10. James Cullen (physio): Working with the Dublin footballers since 2007, he also treats the Irish rugby team having previously been with Leinster for eight years.

11. Shane O'Hanlon (selector): The St Vincent's man is with Gavin since the Under-21 days and has been described by the manager as his 'operations manager'.

12. Jason Sherlock (forwards coach): The former 'Darling of the Hill' was a team-mate of Gavin's and has been working with the attackers for the past two years.

13. Declan Darcy (selector): Famously captained Leitrim to a Connacht title in 1994 before returning to his native Dublin. He and Deegan work mostly with the defenders in training.

14. Jim Gavin senior (backroom team): Provider of fatherly advice to the manager.

15. Bernard Dunne (lifestyle coach): Involved since 2013, the former WBA super bantamweight champion has described his role as "helping Jim in any way I can".

16. David Boylan (logistics): A son of Tony, he assists with the transport of Dublin's matchday equipment.

17. Daniel Davey (nutritionist): Like other members of the backroom team, Davey also works with Leinster Rugby. The former Sligo footballer tells them what to eat and when to eat.

18. Anne-Marie Kennedy (yoga teacher): Involved since 2013, Kennedy helps the players with breathing techniques and their mobility.

19. Mick Seavers (Dublin county board vice-chairman): The Erin's Isle man was elected in 2015.

20. Kieran O'Reilly (physio): Having previously worked with rugby and soccer professionals, O'Reilly is currently also involved with the Irish cricket team.

21. Frank Roebuck (stats): A clubmate of Gavin's at Round Towers, he assists Boyne in analysing the game data gathered.

22. Seamus McCormack (media manager): The former Erin's Isle footballer brings his Air Corps background to bare as he helps control the huge interest in Gavin and his team.

23. Ciaran O'Malley (doctor): Looks after the matchday medical needs of the squad.

That was the 'volunteer' backroom team in 2016, in anyways.

[Baile Brigín 2]

The logistical mans son is listed...

Every county has that sort of lineup.

League of Ireland soccer clubs have all that.

[highorlow]

The logistical mans son is listed...

Every country has that sort of lineup.

League of Ireland soccer clubs have all that.

Thank you. Your in agreement that the Dubs are as big as an International outfit.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Bernard Dunne (lifestyle coach).

A what now?

[Falcao]

I think the 'financial doping' accusation is pretty appropriate in this context.
Take a supremely fit athlete, who trains hard, eats all the right food, gets 8 hours sleep etc.
Now, give him steroids, growth hormone, EPO etc.
He was already a brilliant athlete, working as hard as he could, now you've made him unbeatable.
This is what a lot of Dublin fans don't seem to understand.
Nobody is saying this Dublin team, and by extension the county board, haven't put in trojan work over many years to reach this point.
In the same way the Kilkenny county board had their systems & structures in place for their glory years.
The difference between the two examples is the massive injection of money that Dublin received, which (per capita) is far in excess of that available to other counties.
You can replicate hard work.
You can't replicate money.

I just think to call athletes dopers, of any kind, isn't really on to be honest unless you have concrete evidence that they are in fact doped. I know in your post you mention hard work as well, but by calling them doped you are taking away all credit from them for anything they have achieved over the last few years.

The figures and graphs bandied about, like the latest article yesterday that talk about Dublin getting 16 million over the last 10 yrs and Tyrone only getting 560k. just aren't accurate and they have been debunked before and all come from the same source. Without doubt Dublin have money behind them but so do some of their competitors like Kerry and Tyrone. Even in the hurling, this years winners are bankrolled by a multi millionaire.

Take players from any of the top few inter county teams in football and hurling:
They all work with S&C specialists
They all work with Sports Psychologists
They all have access to Physio's and medical experts on tap
They all have backroom teams of approx 30 people give or take a couple
They all train in top facilities (Currans Centre, Garvaghey etc.)
They all get free cars
They all get free Holidays / Go on training camps
They all have underage coaching structures in place (some got them together later than others). See quote below from Tomas O'Se from the weekend
"You have to give a lot of credit to the structures they have within the county...Donal Daly organised everything. He has coaches under him who coach the coaches within the clubs, They have structures then for academy players, they start at under-14 level. They bring them through, they're giving the expertise that they have to them,"
They all work or study and train only in their spare time

Can you list the advantages that this Dublin team have got over their closest rivals due to an injection of massive amounts of money?
What are they getting out of this money that Kerry for example do not have?