Time to Split Dublin

Started by Dont Matter, September 22, 2013, 05:28:16 PM

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Is it right that Dublin got 7 million to implement a plan to dominate the GAA World?

Yes
42 (29%)
No
103 (71%)

Total Members Voted: 145

The Hill is Blue

Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 06:05:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 18, 2018, 02:43:43 PM
Adults playing football, stripping out the non-Dubs playing in Dublin, would be a better comparison. We'd still have the most, but the discrepancy wouldnt be near as high.

That's because Dublin clubs are a ridiculous size.


Quote from: westbound on September 18, 2018, 02:54:02 PM
Comparing professional sports is actually a terrible comparison. Players can freely move clubs in professional sports therefore neutralising the population discrepancy.

yes and no. Big teams buy big players and these are in big cities in general.

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
How about amalgamating counties who feel they can't compete?

There are a range of counties of very broadly the same size; Kerry, Mayo, Meath, Tyrone etc  and there are some a bit smaller who compete well at times, like Monaghan or Offaly, and a few whose small population makes it difficult. If the smaller counties wish to combine there is a case for this. But they mostly affect themselves. Having one ridiculously big county undermines competition in the normal counties in a way that a few small counties do not.

But all this stuff about soccer and small counties does nothing to support Dublin's position, stop trying to divert debate .

A couple of questions - what's a "normal" county and are you saying that the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc will never be able to compete with Dublin again?
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

Syferus

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 06:05:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 18, 2018, 02:43:43 PM
Adults playing football, stripping out the non-Dubs playing in Dublin, would be a better comparison. We'd still have the most, but the discrepancy wouldnt be near as high.

That's because Dublin clubs are a ridiculous size.


Quote from: westbound on September 18, 2018, 02:54:02 PM
Comparing professional sports is actually a terrible comparison. Players can freely move clubs in professional sports therefore neutralising the population discrepancy.

yes and no. Big teams buy big players and these are in big cities in general.

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
How about amalgamating counties who feel they can't compete?

There are a range of counties of very broadly the same size; Kerry, Mayo, Meath, Tyrone etc  and there are some a bit smaller who compete well at times, like Monaghan or Offaly, and a few whose small population makes it difficult. If the smaller counties wish to combine there is a case for this. But they mostly affect themselves. Having one ridiculously big county undermines competition in the normal counties in a way that a few small counties do not.

But all this stuff about soccer and small counties does nothing to support Dublin's position, stop trying to divert debate .

A couple of questions - what's a "normal" county and are you saying that the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc will never be able to compete with Dublin again?

You ask questions but never like the answers..

armaghniac

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
A couple of questions - what's a "normal" county and are you saying that the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc will never be able to compete with Dublin again?

A normal county is one within striking distance of the average population and where football is fairly popular, rather than only hurling.
Some of these counties will compete with Dublin some years, but that doesn't change the unfairness of the situation.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

priceyreilly

Deflect, deflect, deflect. Bertie's children.  ;D It's time to take it out of their hands. They took the money, no one forced them too. They've brought the game into disrepute. They must be split and then we can start to repair our games.

The Hill is Blue

Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
A couple of questions - what's a "normal" county and are you saying that the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc will never be able to compete with Dublin again?

A normal county is one within striking distance of the average population and where football is fairly popular, rather than only hurling.
Some of these counties will compete with Dublin some years, but that doesn't change the unfairness of the situation.

If you're a county that can compete then compete. Otherwise amalgamate.
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

Syferus

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 19, 2018, 12:09:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
A couple of questions - what's a "normal" county and are you saying that the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc will never be able to compete with Dublin again?

A normal county is one within striking distance of the average population and where football is fairly popular, rather than only hurling.
Some of these counties will compete with Dublin some years, but that doesn't change the unfairness of the situation.

If you're a county that can compete then compete. Otherwise amalgamate.

You're about as genuine a debater as Fox Commander or that WUM account in the Mayo LGFA thread.

TheGreatest

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 19, 2018, 12:09:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
A couple of questions - what's a "normal" county and are you saying that the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone etc will never be able to compete with Dublin again?

A normal county is one within striking distance of the average population and where football is fairly popular, rather than only hurling.
Some of these counties will compete with Dublin some years, but that doesn't change the unfairness of the situation.

If you're a county that can compete then compete. Otherwise amalgamate.

100%, talks of slitting teams up because of success is cheap talk, loser talk, defeatist. Sligo, Leitrim could be a good example and could work.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
The basic point here is that an increasing population requires the State to sub divide counties in Dublin.  Are those who defend Dublin arguing that the GAA should simply ignore an increasing population imbalance, no matter how great it becomes?

How about amalgamating counties who feel they can't compete?
If the only reason for amalgamating a number of counties would be to field the strongest senior team for the new entity, then the move would probably be a positive one.

But if that's the only reason to do so, there are many others than that would damage the best interests of the GAA and that's putting it mildly.
For starters, if, say, three counties come together there would then be just one county board where there were three before the amalgamation.
A lot of  intercounty players would lose out as there would now be only one intercounty panel instead of three. The numbers playing at club level in any grade would also be dramatically reduced for the same reason.
Clubs would also have to amalgamate in order to survive and to do so, would cause other problems. In most rural areas, there is a strong bond between a club and the local community. The Parish Rule is very important for those clubs.
This rule has its own drawbacks but, on the whole, it's the main reason for the existence of those clubs in the first place.
If clubs are forced to amalgamate in order to survive, the bond between each club and it main support base would no longer exist. Boys (or girls also) would be less willing to join any club if it's located in another parish and they know few if any those already there.
And to cap it all, there's another snag that most Jackeens probably never have heard of.
There's usually a lot of animosity between adjoining parishes and that has been the ways for generations, certainly long before the GAA was founded.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Farrandeelin

Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 19, 2018, 06:32:04 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
The basic point here is that an increasing population requires the State to sub divide counties in Dublin.  Are those who defend Dublin arguing that the GAA should simply ignore an increasing population imbalance, no matter how great it becomes?

How about amalgamating counties who feel they can't compete?
If the only reason for amalgamating a number of counties would be to field the strongest senior team for the new entity, then the move would probably be a positive one.

But if that's the only reason to do so, there are many others than that would damage the best interests of the GAA and that's putting it mildly.
For starters, if, say, three counties come together there would then be just one county board where there were three before the amalgamation.
A lot of  intercounty players would lose out as there would now be only one intercounty panel instead of three. The numbers playing at club level in any grade would also be dramatically reduced for the same reason.
Clubs would also have to amalgamate in order to survive and to do so, would cause other problems. In most rural areas, there is a strong bond between a club and the local community. The Parish Rule is very important for those clubs.
This rule has its own drawbacks but, on the whole, it's the main reason for the existence of those clubs in the first place.
If clubs are forced to amalgamate in order to survive, the bond between each club and it main support base would no longer exist. Boys (or girls also) would be less willing to join any club if it's located in another parish and they know few if any those already there.
And to cap it all, there's another snag that most Jackeens probably never have heard of.
There's usually a lot of animosity between adjoining parishes and that has been the ways for generations, certainly long before the GAA was founded.

Well said Lar, parish rule, despite its drawbacks is keeping smaller clubs, such as Kilfian, Moygownagh and Lacken from North Mayo alive despite underage amalgamations. Also I'm heading to see one of the biggest rivalries, my own club and Crossmolina within in Ballina in a relegation playoff. There's certainly no love lost between the two teams.  :D
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

reillycavan

I honestly don't know why any Dub would object to being split either. I lived there for many years and there's no community spirit whatsoever. So much of the capital is transient labour because of the tech firms. So it's different from the 31 other counties in that sense.
For example, if you were from Swadlinbar, and you were out trekking in the mountains of Peru, and you met a lad from Cornafean, you'd have a natural affinity with him, because you're both Cavan men. But if you were from Ballymun and you met a lad from Ranelagh, you just wouldn't have the same bond, because like I said, a city doesn't have a sense of community. So split them up and let them whinge if they like, they've had their time in the sun and it's time for change.

From the Bunker

Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 04:18:50 PM
I honestly don't know why any Dub would object to being split either. I lived there for many years and there's no community spirit whatsoever. So much of the capital is transient labour because of the tech firms. So it's different from the 31 other counties in that sense.
For example, if you were from Swadlinbar, and you were out trekking in the mountains of Peru, and you met a lad from Cornafean, you'd have a natural affinity with him, because you're both Cavan men. But if you were from Ballymun and you met a lad from Ranelagh, you just wouldn't have the same bond, because like I said, a city doesn't have a sense of community. So split them up and let them whinge if they like, they've had their time in the sun and it's time for change.

So who takes Credit for the 29 AI titles? Or the 50 odd Leinsters?

Does it stop at those figures?

So if South Dublin won an AI, would their tally be 1 or 30?

LeoMc

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 04:18:50 PM
I honestly don't know why any Dub would object to being split either. I lived there for many years and there's no community spirit whatsoever. So much of the capital is transient labour because of the tech firms. So it's different from the 31 other counties in that sense.
For example, if you were from Swadlinbar, and you were out trekking in the mountains of Peru, and you met a lad from Cornafean, you'd have a natural affinity with him, because you're both Cavan men. But if you were from Ballymun and you met a lad from Ranelagh, you just wouldn't have the same bond, because like I said, a city doesn't have a sense of community. So split them up and let them whinge if they like, they've had their time in the sun and it's time for change.

So who takes Credit for the 29 AI titles? Or the 50 odd Leinsters?

Does it stop at those figures?

So if South Dublin won an AI, would their tally be 1 or 30?
What happens with every other amalgamation and split up and down the County. Dublin won them, Dublin take the credit. If South Dublin win one, that is 1 to South Dublin.

From the Bunker

Quote from: LeoMc on December 12, 2020, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 12, 2020, 04:18:50 PM
I honestly don't know why any Dub would object to being split either. I lived there for many years and there's no community spirit whatsoever. So much of the capital is transient labour because of the tech firms. So it's different from the 31 other counties in that sense.
For example, if you were from Swadlinbar, and you were out trekking in the mountains of Peru, and you met a lad from Cornafean, you'd have a natural affinity with him, because you're both Cavan men. But if you were from Ballymun and you met a lad from Ranelagh, you just wouldn't have the same bond, because like I said, a city doesn't have a sense of community. So split them up and let them whinge if they like, they've had their time in the sun and it's time for change.

So who takes Credit for the 29 AI titles? Or the 50 odd Leinsters?

Does it stop at those figures?

So if South Dublin won an AI, would their tally be 1 or 30?
What happens with every other amalgamation and split up and down the County. Dublin won them, Dublin take the credit. If South Dublin win one, that is 1 to South Dublin.

Is that one in total for South Dublin or 1+29?

You see one of the biggest worries for Kerry is that Dublin are catching up to them in regards to who has the most. Splitting Dublin puts their current total of 29 on pause! 

hoynevalley

9 more full time coaches by January! Offaly very quickly going in the right direction