Official Gooners Thread - A New Hope

[Asal Mor]

Big win for Arsenal today led by Aaron Ramsey. You could argue that the only difference between Arse and Liverpool this year was a few big injuries, most especially the ones to Ramsey and Walcott. It could also be that Arsenal, with Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Walcott and Chamberlain are on the verge of something big and it would be a huge mistake to lose Wenger. Obviously, you need a squad but that involves throwing the same kind of money at it as City and Chelsea.

[AZOffaly]

Liverpool have had more than enough injuries, so I don't know about that. Gerrard missed a fair few, Suarez had a self inflicted absence, Sturridge was out for a good few games as well. Add in injuries to Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Lucas and it's not exactly as if they've been praying at Lourdes.

[Main Street]

Liverpool have had more than enough injuries, so I don't know about that. Gerrard missed a fair few, Suarez had a self inflicted absence, Sturridge was out for a good few games as well. Add in injuries to Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Lucas and it's not exactly as if they've been praying at Lourdes.

Missing all your big players for the important games in the last 1/4 of the season is different than random injuries throughout the season  that Liverpool suffered but who pretty much have had a near full selection available for the last 1/4.

[deiseach]

If me aunt had balls etc

[deiseach]

On a less flippant note, Liverpool's points tally this season has already exceeded Arsenal's total in each of the last four seasons. What was Arsenal's excuse in those years for not getting up to the level required to have a proper shot at it?

[Main Street]

On a less flippant note, Liverpool's points tally this season has already exceeded Arsenal's total in each of the last four seasons. What was Arsenal's excuse in those years for not getting up to the level required to have a proper shot at it?

Less flippant for you, still has you in the kids playground

[AZOffaly]

Liverpool have had more than enough injuries, so I don't know about that. Gerrard missed a fair few, Suarez had a self inflicted absence, Sturridge was out for a good few games as well. Add in injuries to Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Lucas and it's not exactly as if they've been praying at Lourdes.

Missing all your big players for the important games in the last 1/4 of the season is different than random injuries throughout the season  that Liverpool suffered but who pretty much have had a near full selection available for the last 1/4.

Daniel Sturridge missing today. A 20 goal striker.

[deiseach]

On a less flippant note, Liverpool's points tally this season has already exceeded Arsenal's total in each of the last four seasons. What was Arsenal's excuse in those years for not getting up to the level required to have a proper shot at it?

Less flippant for you, still has you in the kids playground

[Asal Mor]

Fair enough lads, Liverpool have had their fair share. Hopefully they'll finish the job and they'll be very deserving champions if they do.

I just wanted to make the point about Wenger and how Arsenal, if Ramsey in particular hadn't gotten injured, would probably still be in contention. Arsenal definitely need to strengthen their squad, but getting rid of Wenger(if it could be avoided) might be a huge mistake.

[From the Bunker]

Fair enough lads, Liverpool have had their fair share. Hopefully they'll finish the job and they'll be very deserving champions if they do.

I just wanted to make the point about Wenger and how Arsenal, if Ramsey in particular hadn't gotten injured, would probably still be in contention. Arsenal definitely need to strengthen their squad, but getting rid of Wenger(if it could be avoided) might be a huge mistake.

The same probably would have been said of Moyes when he left Everton. But Martinez has bred new life and ambition into Everton as well as good football.

[ONeill]

Good to see Ramsey back.

I don't think Ramsey would have prevented the hammerings. Ozil and Wilshere play in that nightmare opening 20 minutes v Liverpool and could do nothing about it.

[Asal Mor]

This site has a lot of stats regarding how much clubs have spent in the Premiership. http://transferleague.co.uk/

It's an old argument but Wenger's Arsenal have been outside the big 5 spenders and have overachieved. The Ozil signing was an aberration and one they were pressured into by the fans. If they replace Wenger, and spend proportionately the same as they did in his time there, I'd be surprised if they continue to be a top four side. Speaking as a Newcastle fan(stuck in endless mid-table oblivion to the point of barely caring anymore), Arsenal fans should be careful what they wish for. 

[ONeill]

Arsenal fans are very well aware of the risks.

You can stick with the status quo - continuous top 4 finishes. Champions' League football. Exit last 16. Best players leave. Replace with a lesser light (eg Giroud for Van Persie....Gervinho for Nasri etc). Play nice football against the bottom half but fold embarrassingly against a top side. And repeat. And repeat.

Or, you can thank Arsene for his brilliance but decide to take the club in another direction. It might mean a couple years of being a Spurs but hopefully not.

Arsene's time at Arsenal saw three fine sides. The first one was the inherited defence & Bergkamp coupled with his own buys (Vieira/Petit/Overmars). It coincided with France winning things. Arsenal had some of the best players in the world and that was down to Arsene's nationality and timing. That team was built around Bergkamp/Vieira/Adams and it matched Utd for talent and drive.

Then came the attempt at total football spearheaded by Henry and Pires. That 2003-2006 side should have lifted the big one. They played the best football I'll ever see a side play outside of the recent Barca team. From 05-06 they started creaking and depended on Henry pulling them out in big games. The CL final saw that side break up and he built his third side around Fabregas and Van Persie. I think it was around '08 they came up just short in the league and the CL. Wenger was so close to building his third great successful side. I think they were 1-0 up at Old Trafford and threw it away with a penalty and a free kick. Unfortunately they won nothing year after year, culminating in that horrible defeat to Birmingham. Chelsea and City arrived on the scene with their endless cash. The French talent dried up. Best players were leaving in their prime. Cesc, Nasri, RVP, Flamini...even Hleb.

Arsene has one way of playing football - no matter if they are playing Barcelona or Barnet. For years it worked because they had some of the best players in the world playing his way. He never played to limit another side's strengths. But now that he has a squad full of average to good players they simply cannot just turn up and roll sides over. They think they can and this happens: 8-2 v Utd. 6-3 v City. 5-1 v Liverpool. 6-0 v Chelsea. Playing his way.

It is now 10 years since the Invincibles. Do Arsenal fans wait around to see if that can happen again? Should they remain content with 4th place and a few hammerings? Maybe. Personally I'd like to see a new era ushered in. Whatever it is. Groundhog Day is shit.

[ONeill]

http://transferleague.co.uk/data/team/team-53.htm

This says a lot about Wenger's attitude to ruining a sustainable business. There's definitely something admirable about that. I'm sure the owners are delighted.

However, I don't really care that much. I'd rather watch 40m Suarez to free-transfer Chamakh.

[muppet]

http://transferleague.co.uk/data/team/team-53.htm

This says a lot about Wenger's attitude to ruining a sustainable business. There's definitely something admirable about that. I'm sure the owners are delighted.

However, I don't really care that much. I'd rather watch 40m Suarez to free-transfer Chamakh.

One of the problems with that profit/loss transfer analysis is that it completely lacks context.

For example, if a club buys 10 good young players and sells 2 at 25 years of age, for a fortune, it is clearly good business financially. But football wise is it good for a club to sell Ronaldo, Bale, Cesc etc before they reach their individual peaks?

Wenger's transfer acumen was beyond admirable when titles followed. But nowadays is it a credible argument for 4th place if you point to the profit on Cesc and RVP?