Official Gooners Thread - A New Hope

[Dinny Breen]

I think it's kicking in now as I could have sworn I saw Mertesacker score.

End of season is when you judge. Be careful what you wish for as they say.

[Walter Cronc]

Madness taking jenkinson off. He offers threat in behind. Giroud is bi-polar. Either great or awful. Get podolski on and Walcott up top!

[muppet]

[ONeill]

End of season is when you judge. Be careful what you wish for as they say.

What does that actually mean Dinny? What do you wish for?

Wenger to remain and finish top 4 again, and again, and again whilst all the time getting further away from winning the league, champions' league or anything for that matter? Is that it? Is that what we want?

Wenger's genius in the early years will never be forgotten but the club needs a new direction now, even if that means finishing outside the top 4 for a while. This top 4 thing - what has it actually done for the club? I cannot see Arsenal luring world class players or the money being used to keep their best. Every year they're getting tanked in the knock-out stage now. What's the point of finishing in the top four if there's nothing to show for it - to the point that the standard of football is worsening.

I'd rather get a new man in with a new approach - we know what Wenger can do and the football he wants to produce but if the club are happy with 3rd or 4th every year without even coming close to winning anything - well - there's something cowardly in that.  It's repetitively boring and the gradual slide is hard to watch.

[trileacman]

End of season is when you judge. Be careful what you wish for as they say.

What does that actually mean Dinny? What do you wish for?

Wenger to remain and finish top 4 again, and again, and again whilst all the time getting further away from winning the league, champions' league or anything for that matter? Is that it? Is that what we want?

Wenger's genius in the early years will never be forgotten but the club needs a new direction now, even if that means finishing outside the top 4 for a while. This top 4 thing - what has it actually done for the club? I cannot see Arsenal luring world class players or the money being used to keep their best. Every year they're getting tanked in the knock-out stage now. What's the point of finishing in the top four if there's nothing to show for it - to the point that the standard of football is worsening.

I'd rather get a new man in with a new approach - we know what Wenger can do and the football he wants to produce but if the club are happy with 3rd or 4th every year without even coming close to winning anything - well - there's something cowardly in that.  It's repetitively boring and the gradual slide is hard to watch.

Methinks you'll beg for the Wenger days to return not long after he leaves. Like Armagh post-Kernan you'll look back with fondness at the time you were competitors even if back then not everything was golden. Ask any Liverpool fan. Were we happier with a clueless Benitez ingraining a "hoof-to-Torres" mantra whilst playing CL football or are we now better off with a potentially good but unproven passing manager settling us in to mid-table mediocrity? I'd have Carragher and Kuyt earning an often underserved 4th everyday over the flipside of supporting a team and saying "our football deserves more than 8th".

[ONeill]

What are these 'Wenger days'? Keeping the club in the top 4 whilst travelling at speed away from the top?

I know it's miraculous what he's done over the last 16 years but it's stagnant now. There's no sign of improvement or returning to the days when world class players gave the club a chance of competing at the highest level.

It all depends on what Arsenal want. Wenger might keep them at the top table indefinitely but a blind man can see the gradual decline.

[rodney trotter]

Who would be the best man to lead Arsenal forward? If the Arsenal board decided to part company with Wenger.

Not a Arsenal fan, but how could they get they get any momentum from one seaon to the next when the best players leave every summer. Can't be all for Financial reasons, Arsenal don't pay as high as wages as other clubs, and are generating money from the CL every season, reaching the knockout stages most years.

Since Petit and Overmas, its been a constant flow Leaving Le Arsenal..

[ONeill]

It's been clear recently that it's not financial alone. Wenger's judgement on players has been worsening each year. The list of sub-standard signings is lengthening. The you have players who seem to be going backwards at the club. Vermaelen, Gervinho, Rosicky, Ramsey, Gibbs, Mertesecker, Diaby, Koscielny. Players like Chamakh and Gervinho came to the club with glowing reputations but wilted at Arsenal. Santos FFS. That fella Park? What was that. Bendtner. I fear for Cazorla, Podolski, Giroud and Oxlade Chamberlain - that they might depreciate as players here.

As for Wilshere - how does he feel when he looks around that the shower around him.

[Walter Cronc]

Who would be the best man to lead Arsenal forward? If the Arsenal board decided to part company with Wenger.

Not a Arsenal fan, but how could they get they get any momentum from one seaon to the next when the best players leave every summer. Can't be all for Financial reasons, Arsenal don't pay as high as wages as other clubs, and are generating money from the CL every season, reaching the knockout stages most years.

Since Petit and Overmas, its been a constant flow Leaving Le Arsenal..

I'd love to see either Jurgen Klopp from Dortmund or Diego Simone from Athletico Madrid. Both teams break with pace and play fast counter attacking football. This style works best in the premiership. If your going to play the passing style then you need 11 players with excellent technique. Arsenal maybe have 2-3 players that can play to that level. Look at Mertesacker, Ramsey, Giroud, Podolski to name but a few. Not that style of player. Can someone tell me what the hell has the ox done wrong not to get a game. This theory that Wenger is great at bringing through young players is a myth. Fabregas and Wilshere are just super talents. Nothing to do with Wenger!

[rodney trotter]

Who would be the best man to lead Arsenal forward? If the Arsenal board decided to part company with Wenger.

Not a Arsenal fan, but how could they get they get any momentum from one seaon to the next when the best players leave every summer. Can't be all for Financial reasons, Arsenal don't pay as high as wages as other clubs, and are generating money from the CL every season, reaching the knockout stages most years.

Since Petit and Overmas, its been a constant flow Leaving Le Arsenal..

I'd love to see either Jurgen Klopp from Dortmund or Diego Simone from Athletico Madrid. Both teams break with pace and play fast counter attacking football. This style works best in the premiership. If your going to play the passing style then you need 11 players with excellent technique. Arsenal maybe have 2-3 players that can play to that level. Look at Mertesacker, Ramsey, Giroud, Podolski to name but a few. Not that style of player. Can someone tell me what the hell has the ox done wrong not to get a game. This theory that Wenger is great at bringing through young players is a myth. Fabregas and Wilshere are just super talents. Nothing to do with Wenger!

Yeah Klopp has been a breath of fresh air with the football Dortmund have been playing in the Bundesliga and CL. He is contracted there for another 2 years. The German League is getting stronger, starting to attract big name players again, and big name managers like Pep. German clubs. The German

Average age of the Dortmund side is 23, only way is up for them. Marco Reus joined Dortmund over Munich so that was a big statement.

[Walter Cronc]

Reus is an excellent player. Think he started his career at Dortmund. Big fan of the Bundesliga!!

[Billys Boots]

The Dortmund style is interesting in that they don't appear to be interested in the possession game - they regularly (comfortably) win games with less than 40% possession.  They are smash and grab artists, and are very good at it - I think they'll make the last 4 of the CL and who knows after that. 

[Dinny Breen]

End of season is when you judge. Be careful what you wish for as they say.

What does that actually mean Dinny? What do you wish for?

Wenger to remain and finish top 4 again, and again, and again whilst all the time getting further away from winning the league, champions' league or anything for that matter? Is that it? Is that what we want?

Wenger's genius in the early years will never be forgotten but the club needs a new direction now, even if that means finishing outside the top 4 for a while. This top 4 thing - what has it actually done for the club? I cannot see Arsenal luring world class players or the money being used to keep their best. Every year they're getting tanked in the knock-out stage now. What's the point of finishing in the top four if there's nothing to show for it - to the point that the standard of football is worsening.

I'd rather get a new man in with a new approach - we know what Wenger can do and the football he wants to produce but if the club are happy with 3rd or 4th every year without even coming close to winning anything - well - there's something cowardly in that.  It's repetitively boring and the gradual slide is hard to watch.

It means that that maybe just maybe that Arsenal have plateaued as a club and that no matter who you have as a manager results will not get better. Everyone knows Arsenal cannot compete with Man United, Chelsea and Man City on buying players and paying the kind of wages they pay, there is probably 30 players between those 3 clubs earning more than Arsenal's top player. There is no salary cap, it's not a fair market and that is a reality, Arsenal are at their level whether the fans like it or not.  I just can't see some magical appointment changing all that so for me it's definitely better the devil you know. 

You know this pressure from fans, this ludicrous sense of entitlement is having a negative affect on Arsenal, Arsenal are performing better away from home, why is that? 

Arsenal will probably still finish 3rd/4th, that to me is an achievement so when the stadium is finally paid off and some sort of FFP is in place then I think Wenger should be judged and only then. Just don't hold your breath waiting for FFP

[Premier Emperor]

End of season is when you judge. Be careful what you wish for as they say.

What does that actually mean Dinny? What do you wish for?

Wenger to remain and finish top 4 again, and again, and again whilst all the time getting further away from winning the league, champions' league or anything for that matter? Is that it? Is that what we want?

Wenger's genius in the early years will never be forgotten but the club needs a new direction now, even if that means finishing outside the top 4 for a while. This top 4 thing - what has it actually done for the club? I cannot see Arsenal luring world class players or the money being used to keep their best. Every year they're getting tanked in the knock-out stage now. What's the point of finishing in the top four if there's nothing to show for it - to the point that the standard of football is worsening.

I'd rather get a new man in with a new approach - we know what Wenger can do and the football he wants to produce but if the club are happy with 3rd or 4th every year without even coming close to winning anything - well - there's something cowardly in that.  It's repetitively boring and the gradual slide is hard to watch.

It means that that maybe just maybe that Arsenal have plateaued as a club and that no matter who you have as a manager results will not get better. Everyone knows Arsenal cannot compete with Man United, Chelsea and Man City on buying players and paying the kind of wages they pay, there is probably 30 players between those 3 clubs earning more than Arsenal's top player. There is no salary cap, it's not a fair market and that is a reality, Arsenal are at their level whether the fans like it or not.  I just can't see some magical appointment changing all that so for me it's definitely better the devil you know. 

You know this pressure from fans, this ludicrous sense of entitlement is having a negative affect on Arsenal, Arsenal are performing better away from home, why is that? 

Arsenal will probably still finish 3rd/4th, that to me is an achievement so when the stadium is finally paid off and some sort of FFP is in place then I think Wenger should be judged and only then. Just don't hold your breath waiting for FFP

Wages? I thought Wenger was earning more than Ferguson and that Arsenal tickets are the dearest in the Premier League.

[ONeill]

Robin must be kicking himself.