Official Gooners Thread - A New Hope

[Orangemac]

my mate is a gooner and he always points to the fact that wenger built on the foundations of graham and he has never rebuilt a proper defence since.

The Wenger '04 defence of Lauren - Campbell - Toure - Cole was possibly their best ever and not a patch of Graham on it. Conceded 26 goals in 38 games and went through the season unbeaten. There's something else amiss. He knows how to build a team that can win things.

Unfortunately I doubt Wenger is going to get the 2/3 years he will need to rebuild another team.

Anyone see the Piers Morgan V Frimpong scrap on Twitter last night. Morgan is one irritating twat.

[Dinny Breen]

my mate is a gooner and he always points to the fact that wenger built on the foundations of graham and he has never rebuilt a proper defence since.

The Wenger '04 defence of Lauren - Campbell - Toure - Cole was possibly their best ever and not a patch of Graham on it. Conceded 26 goals in 38 games and went through the season unbeaten. There's something else amiss. He knows how to build a team that can win things.

Arsenal are stuck in a cycle - something has to change, maybe the manager certainly plenty of players have to leave - but there is something wrong with the culture of the club. Nobody likes losing but the last 2 displays have been pretty gutless...

[ONeill]

What has caused this? When Brian Clough's judgement was shot his alcoholism was a possible excuse. Is it the Dein factor with Arsene? His ability to spot a Ljungberg, Pires or Henry seems to have left him.

[Dinny Breen]

What has caused this? When Brian Clough's judgement was shot his alcoholism was a possible excuse. Is it the Dein factor with Arsene? His ability to spot a Ljungberg, Pires or Henry seems to have left him.

Many put forward that theory, has merit I think, he left in 2007 and it is certainly a factor in the decline along with the stadium debt, the billions at City and Chelsea, the rise of Barca, Wenger's failings as a coach and the failure of certain players to deliver...

It's frustrating watching from the outside, there seems to be a clear lack of leadership at Arsenal from the pitch to the boardroom, Wenger has now endured the longest period an Arsenal manager has ever gone without winning a trophy, still a bit short of the 18 years without a trophy between 53 and 70 mind. In the current climate it's hard to see Wenger been in charge come August, for his own sanity he probably should move on..

[screenexile]

What has caused this? When Brian Clough's judgement was shot his alcoholism was a possible excuse. Is it the Dein factor with Arsene? His ability to spot a Ljungberg, Pires or Henry seems to have left him.

Many put forward that theory, has merit I think, he left in 2007 and it is certainly a factor in the decline along with the stadium debt, the billions at City and Chelsea, the rise of Barca, Wenger's failings as a coach and the failure of certain players to deliver...

It's frustrating watching from the outside, there seems to be a clear lack of leadership at Arsenal from the pitch to the boardroom, Wenger has now endured the longest period an Arsenal manager has ever gone without winning a trophy, still a bit short of the 18 years without a trophy between 53 and 70 mind. In the current climate it's hard to see Wenger been in charge come August, for his own sanity he probably should move on..

José then in a look back to the Graham days  built on consitency rather than flair?!!

[Dinny Breen]

What has caused this? When Brian Clough's judgement was shot his alcoholism was a possible excuse. Is it the Dein factor with Arsene? His ability to spot a Ljungberg, Pires or Henry seems to have left him.

Many put forward that theory, has merit I think, he left in 2007 and it is certainly a factor in the decline along with the stadium debt, the billions at City and Chelsea, the rise of Barca, Wenger's failings as a coach and the failure of certain players to deliver...

It's frustrating watching from the outside, there seems to be a clear lack of leadership at Arsenal from the pitch to the boardroom, Wenger has now endured the longest period an Arsenal manager has ever gone without winning a trophy, still a bit short of the 18 years without a trophy between 53 and 70 mind. In the current climate it's hard to see Wenger been in charge come August, for his own sanity he probably should move on..

José then in a look back to the Graham days  built on consitency rather than flair?!!

A valid point, when you look at Man United after they were hammered by City, Ferguson went all defensive, they grounded out a ridiculous amount of 1-0 victories and confidence was restored and the flair is returning, Wenger use to do that a bit,  most memorable on the way to the 2006 UCL final. He hasn't since as his philosophy seem to take control and pragmatism went out the window.

Mourhino is not an Arsenal type manager, the board would never accept him..

[Captain Scarlet]

Jaysus my mate isnt much of a fan so. and i just agreed. he must be just a stubborn hoor. like everyone says he is an intelligent man but for the last five years everyone knew they needed a powerhouse CM player, keeper and CB.
feck me like they could have bought cahill umpteen times.
bergkamp was saying they have too many similar players and then you hear they are after another creative midfielder in the form of hazard. they have enough of his type already.
although the worst thing i always found about aresenal in recent years is they come across as moany holes. like when chelsea came on the scene i remember utd tried to bully them and were kicked back. arsenal need some bite.
if spurs do a job on them wenger is in big trouble.

[Main Street]

There's an interesting transfer table here,  from 2003-2011.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2003-2011.html

[From the Bunker]

There's an interesting transfer table here,  from 2003-2011.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2003-2011.html

Interesting reading, but stats like this can often lie. Since the emergence of Bosman and players allowed to move on a free, transfer fees go away from the clubs and into the pockets of the players. You may get a player for 'Free', but you could end p paying million extra in wages.

The footnote to all this is that Arsenal usually don't follow this model!

[Evil Genius]

Any Arsenal fans want two spare tickets for their End-of-Season party which I've just been offered?

I can't use them myself because I've already got a prior engagement for tomorrow...

[muppet]

Any Arsenal fans want two spare tickets for their End-of-Season party which I've just been offered?

I can't use them myself because I've already got a prior engagement for tomorrow...

A Rangers Wind Up?

[Main Street]

There's an interesting transfer table here,  from 2003-2011.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2003-2011.html

Interesting reading, but stats like this can often lie. Since the emergence of Bosman and players allowed to move on a free, transfer fees go away from the clubs and into the pockets of the players. You may get a player for 'Free', but you could end p paying million extra in wages.

The footnote to all this is that Arsenal usually don't follow this model!

Of course there are many things to consider. Free signings are listed in the team transfer details.
Wage bill and income are other matters.
If you see the table since 2006 -11,  http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
Arsenal  have spent less than most teams in the EPL and in the last 3 years have hemorrhaged talent.
However, spending for this season hit the roof,  Gervinho, Arteta, Santos, Mertesacker, Chamberlain and a few others.
What Wenger has achieved at Arsenal is proven way beyond doubt. But Arsenal FC are asking him to keep performing miracles in the transfer market year after year.
Sign 6 or 7 players and have them up to Arsenal speed in a few months.
No top 4 (or even a top 6 manager) can be expected to do that year after year, make a profit for the club on transfer fees at the same time and remain competitive for a top 4 place. It is inevitable there will be a slide.

[ONeill]

Arsène Wenger has only £55 million to spend this summer to strengthen Arsenal's underperforming squad

Arsène Wenger will have only £55 million with which to reconstruct his Arsenal squad in the close season, and much less if they fail to qualify for the next Champions League campaign.


That is the message from Arsenal's small shareholders, who shed light on the financial constraints Wenger must operate under as he strains to guide his team into the top four.
The north London club declared in their accounts last November that their cash reserves stood at £160 million. Although this might suggest they are thriving, much of those funds were spoken for before the season.
A detailed breakdown by the Arsenal Supporters' Trust (AST) ahead of the football club's release of interim accounts later this week reveals that about two-thirds of what the club holds at the bank is to meet unavoidable costs.
Prepaid season-ticket money accounts for £65 million but disappears over the course of the season as Arsenal service their £125 million-plus player-wage bill.
Tax demands drain another £13 million. A further £36 million is ring-fenced to repay future debts on the Emirates Stadium and to pay operating costs on ongoing property developments near the ground.

The departures of Cesc Fábregas, Gaël Clichy, Samir Nasri and others produced net summer transfer income of about £4 million after Mikel Arteta, Gervinho and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain were brought in.
The £55 million Wenger has available must cover the fees for any new signings as well as their wages. More revenues might flow if players can be moved on.

But as Wenger found last summer in his abortive attempts to find buyers for players such as Denilson, Nicklas Bendtner and Abou Diaby, the lavish salaries earned by Arsenal squad players makes underachievers difficult to move on.
There is also the pressing concern – reinforced by Sunday's north London derby which starts with Tottenham 10 points clear of their rivals – that Arsenal might not qualify for next season's Champions League. That, the AST estimates, would cost Arsenal about £45 million in prize money and match-day and media income.

Few other leading managers would operate under such constraints, but they arise as a result of Wenger's decision to pay his fringe players wages commensurate to those of Gareth Bale or Luka Modric.
"The wage bill of £130 million is sizeable and in the view of the AST there is clear inefficiency in wage spend evidenced by poor performances on the pitch and the number of players the club have either on loan (ie can't be sold) or deemed not good enough to play in the first team," the AST commented.

The precariousness of Arsenal's self-sustaining model was displayed at an AST meeting last night. Several fans who own executive seats threatened to withhold their season-ticket renewals until the club "shows some ambition".
If such disgruntled voices become more widespread and begin to vote with their feet, Arsenal's ability to meet their financial obligations will be under greater threat.

Simon Hill, the AST's financial analyst, said: "The great irony of Financial Fair Play is Arsenal run the club as break-even and fail to qualify for the Champions League and suffer a £40 million to £50 million drop in revenue and can't quickly lose players, they'll be the first club to fail to meet FFP."

Can someone explain that last paragraph for me.

[Main Street]

I can explain it, but I don't understand it   
In what way would Arsenal violate FFP if CL income doesn't come?  Isn't FFP is an assessment to be done over a few years?

I don't get why the Arsenal trust shareholders put the whole blame on Wenger for over-priced contracts.
"Few other leading managers would operate under such constraints, but they arise as a result of Wenger's decision to pay his fringe players wages commensurate to those of Gareth Bale or Luka Modric"

On another matters,
Arsenal made £46m pre-tax profits in 2008/9 and £56m in 2009/10, quite remarkable by EPL standards, maybe by any standards.

[Evil Genius]

Simon Hill, the AST's financial analyst, said: "The great irony of Financial Fair Play is Arsenal run the club as break-even and fail to qualify for the Champions League and suffer a £40 million to £50 million drop in revenue and can't quickly lose players, they'll be the first club to fail to meet FFP."

Can someone explain that last paragraph for me.

As I understand it, the FFP Rules broadly require clubs only to spend what they bring in by purely footballing means (i.e. no injection of cash by some Sugar Daddy).

In recent years the Arse have been almost unique amongst leading EPL clubs in matching their spending with their (football) revenue. However, in order to do so, much of that has depended on the £40m-odd they have got each year from qualifying for the CL. Therefore if they fail to qualify next time out, they'll either have to raise their (football) revenues and/or cut their spending.

The former is difficult (recession, fans resistance to higher ticket prices etc), though the latter could be achievable by cutting the wage bill, which is much higher than people imagine. For example, according to an analysis in tonights London Evening Standard, Arse have 71 (Seventy One) paid professionals on their books, including one Johan Djourou on £50k per week!  Further, they speculate that so bloated is their wage bill that the most they will be able to offer RVP is £100k per week, which may not be enough to keep him. That said, if he does sign, a four year contract, plus a £5m(?) re-signing fee will still cost them the thick end of £25m.

Of course, they could always sell Van Persie and raise a huge amount of dosh, but...    ... well I'm sure you know where that  would lead! 

Anyhow, here's that article I referred to:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-24037169-arsene-wenger-faces-being-left-with-just-pound-10m-to-rebuild-arsenal.do

Enjoy!