The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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Gmac

Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?
also if you have 99 employees you are ok but 100 means mandates needed , no provision for natural immunity either , here in California newsoms 2 biggest donors Pge who are burning the place down year after year and keep hiking rates and the TEACHERS union , no end go the corruption.

J70

Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 06:27:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 06:16:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 23, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
Yes j70 I believe mandates are wrong.

Just the covid mandates, or all vaccine mandates?
covid
in your current job did you have to disclose your vaccination status before now ?

Why just covid?

I don't think I did on this one, but other jobs I've had to, yes. I've had to get annual PPD tests on my both my current and last job though.

When I began my current job, there wasn't a pandemic taking place.

As I said in an earlier post, when the circumstances change, then the response needs to also.

J70

Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2021, 07:48:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?
also if you have 99 employees you are ok but 100 means mandates needed , no provision for natural immunity either , here in California newsoms 2 biggest donors Pge who are burning the place down year after year and keep hiking rates and the TEACHERS union , no end go the corruption.

100 people is the cut-off for loads of federal regulations. They have to draw a line somewhere, and it is typically what they use to differentiate big and small companies. I've no idea if that comes from some statute or if it's simply traditional practice at this point. And people at those companies have the option of weekly testing anyway.

What provision SHOULD there be for natural immunity? How would you measure that? How long does it last? Does the level of protection vary with the severity of the infection?

I would imagine that that WILL come into it a bit down the line IF the data supports it. The only logical reason why it wouldn't is if you're a subscriber to some big-government-wants-to-control-us insanity.

J70

#22263
Addendum to my last post (and another example of how personal, anecdotal experience doesn't necessarily extrapolate):

The feds draw the line all over the place when setting thresholds above which a particular reg will apply. The field I'm in often uses 100, but that's not always or even usually the case.

https://www.sullivan-benefits.com/wp-content/uploads/Federal-Employment-Laws-by-Employer-Size-03.17.171.pdf
https://www.hrplusinc.com/employment-laws-regulations/

The Times just did an article about this issue a few days ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/business/smallbusiness/small-business-vaccine-mandate-threshold.html

But, whatever threshold they use, they have to draw a hard line somewhere, unless they're going to make it universally applicable.


J70

#22264
Quote from: whitey on September 23, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
One of the key tenets of the sort of Ayn Rand style libertarianism publicly espoused by the Q Party is that employers should have the freedom to set conditions of employment and deny people access to their premises on a whim.

This is one of the very rare occasions where that sort of libertarian ideology is actually correct, because it holds that any business should be able to mandate vaccines for employees and anybody who enters the premises. Which is very sensible in terms of public health and the health of those who work and enter business premises.

But the people who publicly espouse libertarianism have suddenly renounced that, just because it doesn't suit them.

And they have renounced it because they don't actually believe libertarianism at all, they use it as a front for tyranny, as libertarianism has always been used.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated are being selfish bastards who care nothing for others. They don't care if they spread Covid to somebody and that person dies.

That is real tyranny.

No more needs to be said. And no false respect or nicety should be paid to such an ideology.

Because it's literally quite happy to kill you.

So what about the teachers unions suing to stop a vaccine mandate for employees who work exclusively with PEOPLE WHO CANT BE VACCINATED?

What do you think of them?

How many union members does it take to force the union to sue?

Honest question - I've no idea how much latitude exists. If 90% are ok with a mandate such as this, but the other 10 are not and want to file a grievance, does the union have to take it on?

More anecdotes from my end, but I've seen first hand how disruptive one or two disgruntled union employees can be and the lengths they can force a union to go to defend them for what most people would consider outrageous conduct (although such "defences" usually, again just talking my experience, come down to some HR technical mistake rather than the conduct itself being defensible).

whitey

Okay.....I'm not trying to be smart here. I'm hoping someone can actually explain this stuff in layman's terms. There's a big hullabaloo going on at a local high school over people being "misgendered" and students are being accused of hate speech for "deadnaming" other students.

https://springfield.edu/gender-pronouns

Don't!

Don't refer to pronouns such as "they/them/their" or "ze/hir/hir" as "gender-neutral pronouns." While some people identify as gender-neutral, others see themselves as gendered in a nonbinary way. Better language is "nonbinary pronouns."
Don't describe the pronouns someone uses as "preferred pronouns." It is not a preference. The pronouns that a person uses are their pronouns and the only ones that should be used for them.
Don't say "male pronouns" and "female pronouns." Pronouns are not necessarily tied to someone's gender identity: some trans people use "he/him/his" or "she/her/her," but do not identify as male or female, respectively.
If you conform to (most) gender expectations and are not a transgender person, don't indicate that you "don't care what pronouns are used for me." Such statements reinforce the privilege of people who are gender conforming and not transgender because these people are not going to be misgendered and thus do not need to worry about the pronouns that people use for them. It also invalidates the experiences of gender nonconforming and transgender people, many of whom struggle with getting people to use their correct pronouns.



Gmac

Quote from: Gmac on June 26, 2021, 02:23:09 AM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on June 26, 2021, 12:40:26 AM
Point number 3 never fails. Either you are in total denial about the astronomical and wildly out of proportion black violence  in the United States as opposed to the other ethnic groups, or you are lying.
maybe the Democrats haven't changed at all from the party of slavery only  now their policy is let them all kill each other  .
this may be true no charges in Chicago if it's just combatants shooting each other.

Gmac

Happy Columbus Day to our US posters .

RedHand88

#22268
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

whitey

Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

J70

Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.

sid waddell

Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.




whitey

Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.

LOL


Manchin and Sienna are why McAuluffe lost and Murphy may lose in NJ?

Okay. Whatever you say!


whitey

#22273
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.

An elitist Democrat, who probably spent $1M+ sending his own kids to private schools, stating that parents should have no say in what their children's are being taught in school (while his own wife is on the board of his kids schools helping decide curriculum )

J70

Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2021, 06:43:37 AM
Bad night for Biden and the Democrats. Would expect to see GOP gains at the midterms now.

Republicans to take back the White Hoise in 2024?

If this doesn't cause the Democrats to wake the fvck up, they deserve what's coming

Hopefully it will wake them up.

Some of the progressive caucus in the House are in cloud cuckoo land, seemingly unaware that the Senate is on a knife edge, dependent on two red state Senators.

All the critical race theory horseshit (you have to hand it to the GOP for their complete mastery of culture war nonsense) wouldn't matter as much if they'd stop the self destruction.

NYC showed the way with a pragmatic centrist mayor, who was immune to the GOP bullshit, elected.
Manchin and Sinema are the problem. 100% corrupt, bought and paid for, extremist political hijackers.

Manchin is the pocket of fossil fuels. Sinema is in the pocket of slash and burn big business.

They are the reason for Biden not being able to get common sense legislation through.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema are getting elected next time anyway. Manchin will lose in West Virginia and Sinema will be primaried and lose.

America is fucked. Once the Republicans get in in 2022, the 2024 presidential election will be stolen, and it's bye bye democracy in America for the rest of our lifetimes.

1. I agree America is likely fucked. Trump and the GOP ARE putting the people and legislation in place to steal the next presidential election and they will likely succeed, especially as there are no obvious broad-appeal candidates around on the Democratic side who would win at the level needed to overcome such theft.

3. Hate Manchin and Sinema all you want (although I don't what the f**k Sinema's deal is; I don't know if anyone outside those who have presumably bought and paid for her do), but they're the only thing currently standing in the way of Mitch McConnell being back in charge and the GOP running all of the committees. There is simply no liberal Democratic majority to be had in the US Senate given the undemocratic design of that chamber. Its either the likes of Manchin or its a Trump whackjob. That's the choice, and its also the choice for three or four other states. Manchin is protecting his seat, and he's done so successfully for years in a very conservative state. Progressives can either rein in their ambitions or they can blow their wad on legislation which will either not pass the Senate or which will see them booted out of office and the legislation either revoked or simply not enforced by a GOP-controlled executive.