Can I just say that Joe Duffy is a man of the people. He deals with the day in, day out top issues and is worth every penny of the €400k he receives from RTE.
He deals with all issues in a totally unbiased way.
Not alone is he a top presenter, he is also a rather talented comedian.
Presenters like him are well worth selling off the family Silver to hold onto.
It's hard to believe RTE do not give him more air-time.
Nothing like a bit of sarcasm on a Monday evening. I just switch him off. Pure drivel and the only thing worse are the idiots that call into him.
Not in the same league as Nolan up here though, given that he also brings a large dose of divisiveness to add to the copious amounts of pious self-importance.
The mans a ledge. Better than listening to Andea Gilligan and Niall Boylan.
Quote from: reillycavan on February 08, 2021, 08:00:40 PM
The mans a ledge. Better than listening to Andea Gilligan and Niall Boylan.
Yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah.
David McSavage did a sketch on Joe years ago, pretty accurate with emphasis on how Joe gets off on peoples misery.
Off the point completely, think the Tommy Tiernan show is good viewing on a Saturday night, like his unscripted, patient style of interviewing.
I don't watch it much but turned it over to it when Stephen Rea was on. That was a tough enough watch.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 08:59:53 PM
I don't watch it much but turned it over to it when Stephen Rea was on. That was a tough enough watch.
It was, he let him talk though unlike Tubridy who would be looking at his watch and ticking a set list of questions off. Thought the Brian O Driscoll interview was good to.
https://youtu.be/L8z7jehjDi4
McSavage is loon. ;D
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2021, 09:36:44 PM
https://youtu.be/L8z7jehjDi4
McSavage is loon. ;D
Sure isn't he Tubridy's cousin.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 08, 2021, 11:36:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2021, 09:36:44 PM
https://youtu.be/L8z7jehjDi4
McSavage is loon. ;D
Sure isn't he Tubridy's cousin.
I think he is the black sheep of the family. He certainly isnt the darling of RTE like Tubridy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0MVaCOIfQI
'McSavage' is the son of David Andrews isnt that correct?? The Savage eye is one of the funniest comedy shows i've ever watched.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 09, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
'McSavage' is the son of David Andrews isnt that correct?? The Savage eye is one of the funniest comedy shows i've ever watched.
+1
Joe Duffy peaked with the Derrytresk v Dromid fight when the Kerry ones started to ring in to complain. Gobshites calling a Gobshite.
McSavage did a brilliant sketch (actually a song) on the late late about Irish ones buying foreign property in the peak of the boom. One of the better comedians out there & does'nt pander to the number crunchers.
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 09, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
'McSavage' is the son of David Andrews isnt that correct?? The Savage eye is one of the funniest comedy shows i've ever watched.
+1
Joe Duffy peaked with the Derrytresk v Dromid fight when the Kerry ones started to ring in to complain. Gobshites calling a Gobshite.
It was good, but was it as good as the morning after "Young People" was shown on the national broadcaster?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2021, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 09, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
'McSavage' is the son of David Andrews isnt that correct?? The Savage eye is one of the funniest comedy shows i've ever watched.
+1
Joe Duffy peaked with the Derrytresk v Dromid fight when the Kerry ones started to ring in to complain. Gobshites calling a Gobshite.
It was good, but was it as good as the morning after "Young People" was shown on the national broadcaster?
Do you mean Normal People? I forgot about that tbf.
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 12:13:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 09, 2021, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 09, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
'McSavage' is the son of David Andrews isnt that correct?? The Savage eye is one of the funniest comedy shows i've ever watched.
+1
Joe Duffy peaked with the Derrytresk v Dromid fight when the Kerry ones started to ring in to complain. Gobshites calling a Gobshite.
It was good, but was it as good as the morning after "Young People" was shown on the national broadcaster?
Do you mean Normal People? I forgot about that tbf.
Yes you're right actually. Well the point of the callers on the show was that they were too young to be at that carryon.
The JD show sent up one of their researchers to Monaghan courthouse Nov 2000, on the day of the court case of GAA honcho and school teacher Michael Feeney, the pedophile who had finally pleaded guilty after years of denial. She hung around the steps outside and made contact with many of the witnesses. The whole show the next day was devoted to an array of peoples' experiences. This was the only radio show that gave voice, an important voice, to those rarely heard victims of abuse.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 08, 2021, 11:36:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2021, 09:36:44 PM
https://youtu.be/L8z7jehjDi4
McSavage is loon. ;D
Sure isn't he Tubridy's cousin.
2 of his brothers were senior FF politicians. I think he had dyslexia and an aversion to conformity.
His brothers lost their seats despite following the rules.
Quote from: Rudi on February 09, 2021, 12:10:32 PM
McSavage did a brilliant sketch (actually a song) on the late late about Irish ones buying foreign property in the peak of the boom. One of the better comedians out there & does'nt pander to the number crunchers.
Eddie Hobbs was on the radio years ago in relation to buying/selling foreign property when a man rang up to boast about how he bought and sold property in Turkey. "Mr. X" said he bought and sold a property in Turkey, made a nice profit and thought this was a great way to make money. Eddie asked him about paying tax in Turkey on the sale and he told Eddie he paid his 2 or 3%. Eddie then replies that was Turkey's version of property tax he had to pay and he was also required to pay their version of capital gains tax on the sale to which the caller didn't reply. Eddie then asked if the caller had filed an Irish tax return and declared the profits from the sale that he brought back to the Ireland and at this point the caller hung up for some reason
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
Duffy is a heinous individual.
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
She was probably too positive for him, he loves misery, he could be a writer for eastenders.
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
I listened to the show segments on wednesday and thursday on the beauty pageant topic and I didn't hear what you claimed happened.There was one comment by the current Miss Ireland that she wouldn't shed a tear should she be stripped of her title.
Quote from: Main Street on February 20, 2021, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
I listened to the show segments on wednesday and thursday on the beauty pageant topic and I didn't hear what you claimed happened.There was one comment by the current Miss Ireland that she wouldn't shed a tear should she be stripped of her title.
Happened on Fridays show so you must have missed it!
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 20, 2021, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 20, 2021, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
I listened to the show segments on wednesday and thursday on the beauty pageant topic and I didn't hear what you claimed happened.There was one comment by the current Miss Ireland that she wouldn't shed a tear should she be stripped of her title.
Happened on Fridays show so you must have missed it!
I'm interested in the debate because some years ago my daughter was in a World pageant held in China and bits of what was discussed on Liveline apply but overall my daughter really enjoyed the experience and made friends for life.
I just listened to that bit from Friday's show. The girl Katie ran rings around Joe pointing out the defects from the previous days conversations and she got exasperated with his obstinacy - his refusal to take on board her rational points such as 4 judges vote plus (only) 1 vote from online poll, but Katie's tear was when she referred to the online abuse she received from people saying she should be ashamed of herself. Katie handled Joe quite well,very composed and intelligent, stayed strong to her line of argument and royally kicked ass.
Quote from: Main Street on February 20, 2021, 08:23:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 20, 2021, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 20, 2021, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Joe Duffy fairly bullied and belittled a young girl on his show who is competing in the Miss Ireland competition. Sent her to tears. Had to back track, call and break and change subject to a different earlier covered topic.
I listened to the show segments on wednesday and thursday on the beauty pageant topic and I didn't hear what you claimed happened.There was one comment by the current Miss Ireland that she wouldn't shed a tear should she be stripped of her title.
Happened on Fridays show so you must have missed it!
I'm interested in the debate because some years ago my daughter was in a World pageant held in China and bits of what was discussed on Liveline apply but overall my daughter really enjoyed the experience and made friends for life.
I just listened to that bit from Friday's show. The girl Katie ran rings around Joe pointing out the defects from the previous days conversations and she got exasperated with his obstinacy - his refusal to take on board her rational points such as 4 judges vote plus (only) 1 vote from online poll, but Katie's tear was when she referred to the online abuse she received from people saying she should be ashamed of herself. Katie handled Joe quite well,very composed and intelligent, stayed strong to her line of argument and royally kicked ass.
Joe conveniently ignored the popular Rose of Tralee covered by RTE during these discussions. I'm sure they have a few dodgy rules.
As others have said on here the Tommy Tiernan show is the best thing on rte at the minute .
Quote from: FermGael on February 20, 2021, 10:49:59 PM
As others have said on here the Tommy Tiernan show is the best thing on rte at the minute .
Just thinking there, does TT ever mention the word
Covid or ask about
Covid or lead into a theme about
Covid?
I think the answer is no!
Commendable
(https://www.independent.ie/news/42811/40102176.ece/AUTOCROP/w800/Livelines%20Joe%20Duffy.%20PicMark%20Condren%208.5.2020)
Joe's show hit a new low today.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 06, 2021, 06:14:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 06, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
Joe's show hit a new low today.
Go on....
looking at twitter, Joe not happy with sport players choosing not to get vaccinated and he lost the run of himself by saying non vaccinated people shouldn't go outside there own house. Anti vaxxers as expected are all over those comments like a bad rash.
If he's winding up anti vaxxer sh1te then he's gone up in my estimation ;D
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
People seem to pretend that this somehow makes the vaccine less useful when it's contribution is to reduce the transmission of the virus.
Seatbelts do not prevent you getting killed in a road accident, but they are still compulsory.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA)
Quote from: armaghniac on October 08, 2021, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
People seem to pretend that this somehow makes the vaccine less useful when it's contribution is to reduce the transmission of the virus.
Seatbelts do not prevent you getting killed in a road accident, but they are still compulsory.
Last time I checked in with the experts on this (through work) this was actually a matter of debate and still considered a bit of an unknown. I have seen a white paper on Johnson vaccine i think that showed it did prevent transmission.
Regardless of transmission. Without the vaccine you are much more likely to be a drain on an already banjaxed health service if you get COVID. So instead of clapping at the door try and do something that will actually help the NHS, plus you get the added bonus of less chance of dying. Win win.
Quote from: Thastheball on October 08, 2021, 09:30:57 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 08, 2021, 02:12:06 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA)
What bit of that did you not understand Mik? He stated a fact, yet you try to belittle him?
Has anyone, anywhere, ever claimed that the vaccine stops you from getting or transmitting the virus? The point is that you are much more likely to catch/transmit the virus if you have not been vaccinated.
A new study from Oxford was discussed on BBC yesterday which found that people who got the AZ vaccine are about 36% less likely to transmit covid than unvaccinated people are, while those who got the Phfizer vaccine are around 65% less likely to transmit the virus than the unvaccinated.
So the reality is that if you choose not to be vaccinated, then you
are consciously putting those around you at increased risk - and scarily, are doing so because you are that arrogant that you genuinely believe you know more about the effectiveness and the safety of the vaccine than the global scientific and biomedical community.
If only to stop our health service from collapsing and folk with acute conditions being turned away in their droves, everyone who can take the vaccine should be doing their bit. With people mixing alot more this autumn / winter, increased levels of flu will be added into the mix. 75% (BMJ) of covid hospital admissions are unvaccinated. It's a no brainer. Social media really is a balls sometimes
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/millions-watch-video-of-homeless-person-destroying-anti-vaxxers-argument-in-six-words-40929082.html
Castigating people who don't have a position on vaccines as anti-vax is a common position for vaccine fascists.
The fact Duffy still has a job is telling about RTE.
Quote from: Thastheball on October 08, 2021, 11:52:30 AM
This is my worry lads, regardless of you looking down your nose at people like me who are not anti vac
https://nomoresilence.world/pfizer-biontech/arooj-imtiaz-lughmani-pfizer-severe-adverse-reaction/ (https://nomoresilence.world/pfizer-biontech/arooj-imtiaz-lughmani-pfizer-severe-adverse-reaction/)
Nobody is denying a story like this. It is that it is so, SO rare that it should not be in the discussion at all. There is a background risk with every single drug, vaccine, medical device etc. It is not a reason to ban it completely.
Anti vaxxers are incapable of balancing the probability of getting a reaction from a vaccine (extremely rare) vs the chance of suffering bad with covid (not as rare).
Look at it this way. How many people do you know who have been hospitalised with covid? Now how many people do you know who have been hospitalised because of the vaccine?
Quote from: Thastheball on October 08, 2021, 11:52:30 AM
This is my worry lads, regardless of you looking down your nose at people like me who are not anti vac
https://nomoresilence.world/pfizer-biontech/arooj-imtiaz-lughmani-pfizer-severe-adverse-reaction/ (https://nomoresilence.world/pfizer-biontech/arooj-imtiaz-lughmani-pfizer-severe-adverse-reaction/)
These cases are extremely rare. People will have reactions to all kinds of medication TTB
You won't get a jab because you read an article about someone who took a reaction after the jab? Are you for real?
I assume you've never had any vaccines then?
Quote from: Thastheball on October 08, 2021, 11:52:30 AM
This is my worry lads, regardless of you looking down your nose at people like me who are not anti vac
https://nomoresilence.world/pfizer-biontech/arooj-imtiaz-lughmani-pfizer-severe-adverse-reaction/ (https://nomoresilence.world/pfizer-biontech/arooj-imtiaz-lughmani-pfizer-severe-adverse-reaction/)
But the list of people who were anti vaxx who caught Covid and died doesn't register? Why?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 08, 2021, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
People seem to pretend that this somehow makes the vaccine less useful when it's contribution is to reduce the transmission of the virus.
Seatbelts do not prevent you getting killed in a road accident, but they are still compulsory.
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination. There is also no research to bare that out. I am fully vaccinated to minimise the potential impact if I contract covid but I don't see how this is an obligation for anyone.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 08, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 08, 2021, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
People seem to pretend that this somehow makes the vaccine less useful when it's contribution is to reduce the transmission of the virus.
Seatbelts do not prevent you getting killed in a road accident, but they are still compulsory.
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination. There is also no research to bare that out. I am fully vaccinated to minimise the potential impact if I contract covid but I don't see how this is an obligation for anyone.
This is why most folk have it, they are looking out for their family, friends, community, health service.Those who choose not too are looking out for themselves and themselves alone. They literally could not be anymore selfish.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 08, 2021, 06:23:15 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 08, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 08, 2021, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
People seem to pretend that this somehow makes the vaccine less useful when it's contribution is to reduce the transmission of the virus.
Seatbelts do not prevent you getting killed in a road accident, but they are still compulsory.
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination. There is also no research to bare that out. I am fully vaccinated to minimise the potential impact if I contract covid but I don't see how this is an obligation for anyone.
This is why most folk have it, they are looking out for their family, friends, community, health service.Those who choose not too are looking out for themselves and themselves alone. They literally could not be anymore selfish.
Most people I know did so to primarily protect themselves. The Vaccine was sold as a protection against the virus and a minimisation of the effect if contracted. After that there was a array of reasons - including people wanting to return to normality, people want to protect vulnerable people in their lives, People feeling under pressure to conform, guilt trips and people who just did not question anything.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 08, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 08, 2021, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 07, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
People seem incapable of understanding that the vaccine neither prevents you from contracting the virus nor prevents you from transmitting the virus.
People seem to pretend that this somehow makes the vaccine less useful when it's contribution is to reduce the transmission of the virus.
Seatbelts do not prevent you getting killed in a road accident, but they are still compulsory.
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination. There is also no research to bare that out. I am fully vaccinated to minimise the potential impact if I contract covid but I don't see how this is an obligation for anyone.
The vaccine DOES reduce transmissibility and Oxford University have just carried out the research showing the extent to which it reduces transmissibility. The Pfizer jab reduces transmissibility by around 65%.
To not get vaccinated is stupid, arrogant and selfish.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 08, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination.
Wha?
Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2021, 08:07:36 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 08, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination.
Wha?
If you believe otherwise you might produce the evidence. The vaccine minimizes symptoms, stops people getting really sick and in turn reduces the pressure on health services. Anything else is wishful thinking and propaganda.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 09, 2021, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2021, 08:07:36 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 08, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Transmission suppression has never been a reason for vaccination.
Wha?
If you believe otherwise you might produce the evidence. The vaccine minimizes symptoms, stops people getting really sick and in turn reduces the pressure on health services. Anything else is wishful thinking and propaganda.
It also reduces the rate of transmissibility. That is not a matter of opinion or "wishful thinking". It has been scientifically proven to be the case. The Pfizer jab reduces transmissibility by 65%. AZ jab by 35%.
Again, that isn't wishful thinking, it's proven fact. So to suggest otherwise is to spread dangerous misinformation. And to know that the jab reduces transmissibility and still not get it is a deeply arrogant, selfish decision to make.
The issue here is one of totalitarianism.
Robinson has had Covid twice, he's a fit and healthy young man, it hasn't caused him any great effect.
The data on Covid is freely available. In the north, there's been 13 deaths of u40s in around 150k positive cases, the likelihood is those 13 who died probably had underlying health conditions like obesity or something else. Anyone with an underlying health condition or in an at risk category should be encouraged to get a vaccine as the benefits outweigh the positives. But trying to coerce, shame, force a fit and healthy u40 into getting a vaccine that has fairly negligible benefits for them is crazy, it's disgusting.
I listened to the interview with Robinson, he was articulate, calm and measured in his response. He seems to have looked at the data and decided the vaccine doesn't really offer him anything, he's had experience of Covid, it hasn't caused him any major bother. Top athletes across all sports are pretty hesitant toward it, they are fit and healthy young men and women so they don't really need the vaccine.
The greatest irony is that the vaccine fascists are the ones who seemingly have little faith in the effectiveness of the vaccine as surely it should only be the vulnerable who need vaccinated? They are happy to misrepresent someone like Robinson as an anti-vaxxer, he's nothing of the sort - he is happy for people to get the vaccine if he wants, he hasn't advised anyone not to, he's just made his own person choice on the issue with regard to his own health and we have some really nasty commentary from hacks with no scientific background or medial background trying to portray a very wrong and unfair image of him.
Joe Duffy is a prime example of this, he really is a sewer rat of a man. His comments were quite spiteful and nasty, wholly unprofessional and on a subject he doesn't have the foggiest idea about, not that it stopped him trying to initiate a pile on on young Robinson. This let us not forget is an RTE employee on the guts of 400k a year with no discernible talent, who was gaming the tax system by being subcontracted so he could cut his tax exposure, who was recently the subject of a defamation case due to comments he made on the airwaves which was settled for a 6 figure sum. A six figure sum that the taxpayer foots the bill for, not fat Joe Duffy. Now I don't know about you guys but if I cost my employer a 6 figure sum, I'd likely be sacked. But what happens Joe Duffy, er nothing.
That's RTE folks, insidious corporation.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 10:38:34 AM
The issue here is one of totalitarianism.
Robinson has had Covid twice, he's a fit and healthy young man, it hasn't caused him any great effect.
The data on Covid is freely available. In the north, there's been 13 deaths of u40s in around 150k positive cases, the likelihood is those 13 who died probably had underlying health conditions like obesity or something else. Anyone with an underlying health condition or in an at risk category should be encouraged to get a vaccine as the benefits outweigh the positives. But trying to coerce, shame, force a fit and healthy u40 into getting a vaccine that has fairly negligible benefits for them is crazy, it's disgusting.
I listened to the interview with Robinson, he was articulate, calm and measured in his response. He seems to have looked at the data and decided the vaccine doesn't really offer him anything, he's had experience of Covid, it hasn't caused him any major bother. Top athletes across all sports are pretty hesitant toward it, they are fit and healthy young men and women so they don't really need the vaccine.
The greatest irony is that the vaccine fascists are the ones who seemingly have little faith in the effectiveness of the vaccine as surely it should only be the vulnerable who need vaccinated? They are happy to misrepresent someone like Robinson as an anti-vaxxer, he's nothing of the sort - he is happy for people to get the vaccine if he wants, he hasn't advised anyone not to, he's just made his own person choice on the issue with regard to his own health and we have some really nasty commentary from hacks with no scientific background or medial background trying to portray a very wrong and unfair image of him.
Joe Duffy is a prime example of this, he really is a sewer rat of a man. His comments were quite spiteful and nasty, wholly unprofessional and on a subject he doesn't have the foggiest idea about, not that it stopped him trying to initiate a pile on on young Robinson. This let us not forget is an RTE employee on the guts of 400k a year with no discernible talent, who was gaming the tax system by being subcontracted so he could cut his tax exposure, who was recently the subject of a defamation case due to comments he made on the airwaves which was settled for a 6 figure sum. A six figure sum that the taxpayer foots the bill for, not fat Joe Duffy. Now I don't know about you guys but if I cost my employer a 6 figure sum, I'd likely be sacked. But what happens Joe Duffy, er nothing.
That's RTE folks, insidious corporation.
Super post & selfish for not getting the vaccine, Jaysus wept.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 10:38:34 AM
The issue here is one of totalitarianism.
Robinson has had Covid twice, he's a fit and healthy young man, it hasn't caused him any great effect.
The data on Covid is freely available. In the north, there's been 13 deaths of u40s in around 150k positive cases, the likelihood is those 13 who died probably had underlying health conditions like obesity or something else. Anyone with an underlying health condition or in an at risk category should be encouraged to get a vaccine as the benefits outweigh the positives. But trying to coerce, shame, force a fit and healthy u40 into getting a vaccine that has fairly negligible benefits for them is crazy, it's disgusting.
I listened to the interview with Robinson, he was articulate, calm and measured in his response. He seems to have looked at the data and decided the vaccine doesn't really offer him anything, he's had experience of Covid, it hasn't caused him any major bother. Top athletes across all sports are pretty hesitant toward it, they are fit and healthy young men and women so they don't really need the vaccine.
The greatest irony is that the vaccine fascists are the ones who seemingly have little faith in the effectiveness of the vaccine as surely it should only be the vulnerable who need vaccinated? They are happy to misrepresent someone like Robinson as an anti-vaxxer, he's nothing of the sort - he is happy for people to get the vaccine if he wants, he hasn't advised anyone not to, he's just made his own person choice on the issue with regard to his own health and we have some really nasty commentary from hacks with no scientific background or medial background trying to portray a very wrong and unfair image of him.
Joe Duffy is a prime example of this, he really is a sewer rat of a man. His comments were quite spiteful and nasty, wholly unprofessional and on a subject he doesn't have the foggiest idea about, not that it stopped him trying to initiate a pile on on young Robinson. This let us not forget is an RTE employee on the guts of 400k a year with no discernible talent, who was gaming the tax system by being subcontracted so he could cut his tax exposure, who was recently the subject of a defamation case due to comments he made on the airwaves which was settled for a 6 figure sum. A six figure sum that the taxpayer foots the bill for, not fat Joe Duffy. Now I don't know about you guys but if I cost my employer a 6 figure sum, I'd likely be sacked. But what happens Joe Duffy, er nothing.
That's RTE folks, insidious corporation.
Super post!
Thumbs up!
I think it is selfish. However, I have absolutely no gra for Duffy. I was the subject of part of one of his shows a good few years ago after dealing with a customer where I worked. It wasn't him but his stand in, he tried to put words in the callers mouth to sensationalise an issue he had, lucky the caller was a decent lad and wasn't having any of it and just wanted to air his actual issue.
We're all selfish though.
We all do things on a daily basis that are solely in our own benefits. We could choose to walk by a homeless person on the street, ignore them and walk into a pub or restaurant or shop and go and treat ourselves. That's selfish, we might justify it by saying it's our money, but it's Callum Robinson's body, it's his sports career, it's his hard work and dedication that have got him to where he is so that's probably why he looks out for and he's no more selfish about it than you or I am. It's also selfish for you to demand someone do something against their will, that is of negligible benefit to them so that it sates yours and others views.
But staying on point, fully agree on Duffy. He has neither talent or decent human qualities, he is indicative of his employers.
did you previously post as angelo... It is similar style and therefore ive no interest in responding other to say we agree he is selfish and I never demended he take it either as you claim.
Joe Duffy is an over paid establishment man. He interviewed a friend of mine last year on his radio station and thought he would take a hand out of him. Big mistake on his end. .My friend was to learned for his "Gerry Springer" approach.it actually back fired on him. Duffy is snide, rude and condescending spineless whizling.
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on October 09, 2021, 03:35:33 PM
Joe Duffy is an over paid establishment man. He interviewed a friend of mine last year on his radio station and thought he would take a hand out of him. Big mistake on his end. .My friend was to learned for his "Gerry Springer" approach.it actually back fired on him. Duffy is snide, rude and condescending spineless whizling.
Duffy grew up in Ballyfermot, establishment he ain't.
And he got where he is purely on merit.
It really annoys lads when this is pointed out.
Callum Robinson making that sc**bag Duffy eat his words now.
Well done young man.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 05:41:39 PM
Callum Robinson making that sc**bag Duffy eat his words now.
Well done young man.
good for him , won't shut up the Karen's though.
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
The only people Callum Robinson stuck it to were the Azerbaijanis, and and I'm glad he did that, as somebody who has attended Ireland matches since 1987.
He remains 100% wrong in his decision not to be vaccinated, as are the other Irish players who have made the same decision, and in this regard has "stuck it" to precisely nobody.
Joe Duffy and everybody else who has called out this decision are wholly correct.
It is a deeply selfish, evidence rejecting decision which affects the whole of society in a negative way.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.
The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?
People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.
If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?
There are three types of people in this debate
1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.
How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.
I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.
Anybody who refuses the vaccine is arrogantly flicking a two fingers sign at frontline medical staff.
They're deliberately making their lives much harder, for no reason except wanton, selfish ignorance.
This "Tres Bien" character is one of those.
Sid - tres bien. Tred bien - sid.
Although i think yous have met before
;D
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 09, 2021, 09:26:14 PM
Sid - tres bien. Tred bien - sid.
Although i think yous have met before
;D. Angelo has the big sister's laptop back.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 09, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 09, 2021, 09:26:14 PM
Sid - tres bien. Tred bien - sid.
Although i think yous have met before
;D. Angelo has the big sister's laptop back.
4 weeks on and you're still greeting.
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.
The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?
People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.
If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?
There are three types of people in this debate
1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.
How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.
I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.
People under 50 are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised if they are unvaccinated. That one fact alone is reason enough to do your bit to help the nhs when all the data points to the vaccine being safe.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.
The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?
People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.
If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?
There are three types of people in this debate
1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.
How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.
I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.
Except the bit you don't seem to get is that the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is a not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of proven scientific fact.
So to say the views of people who don't want to take it deserve respect is just complete nonsense. Why does such a view deserve respect when there is simply no good reason for not taking the vaccine and so many reasons to take it?
Akin to saying we should respect people who decide they are OK to drink and drive because they are of
the opinion that alcohol doesn't impair driving. Such an opinion doesn't deserve respect. Not taking the vaccine and willfully putting others at risk because you perhaps believe you know better than the world's scientific and biomedical community about its safety, is an opinion that doesn't deserve respect.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 09, 2021, 10:31:02 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.
The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?
People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.
If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?
There are three types of people in this debate
1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.
How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.
I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.
People under 50 are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised if they are unvaccinated. That one fact alone is reason enough to do your bit to help the nhs when all the data points to the vaccine being safe.
18x what?
You're talking very broadly there.
People should make choices on the vaccine with regard to their health. I would say if you're young, fit and healthy then the chances of you needing to be hospitalised are beyond remote, can still happen but very unlikely.
People who are elderly are more susceptible to severe illness than people who are young to Covid.
People who have underlying health conditions are far more likely to be susceptible to severe illness than people who don't to Covid.
People who are unhealthy, overweight or inactive are far more likely to be susceptible to severe illness than people who are to Covid.
These are the three factors that should impact a person's decision, the chances of you dying if you are young, fit and healthy from Covid are so, so, so remote. Have a look at the stats on the Covid dashboard, 13 deaths of u40s in 18 months in around 150k positive cases. I'd hazard a guess obesity would have been present in a lot of those 13 deaths.
People who tick any of the vulnerable category boxes should look after themselves and get the vaccine, if they don't then the upside is really negligible.
You don't take a one size fits all approach to this, you determine it to your own circumstances but some people want to stand their screaming and shouting at others about something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Robinson has had Covid twice in the past year, doesn't seem to have had much of an impact on a young, fit healthy man. Has it? It didn't seem to have a great impact on the Tyrone team this year. It didn't seem to have a great impact on the Spanish side at the Euros. Nor did it seem to have a great impact on Novak Djokovic when he got it last year.
Covid is very dangerous to some categories, it is of minimal threat to other groupings so we should tailor our outlook, attitude and approach to what the data tells us - that is what a rational, pragmatic and sensible person will do. A hysterical, reactionary person might just scream that everyone follow what they did and cast allegations and assertions on others who choose not to. I know which side I'd like to be on in that discussion.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 09, 2021, 10:31:02 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.
The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?
People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.
If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?
There are three types of people in this debate
1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.
How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.
I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.
People under 50 are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised if they are unvaccinated. That one fact alone is reason enough to do your bit to help the nhs when all the data points to the vaccine being safe.
18x what?
You're talking very broadly there.
People should make choices on the vaccine with regard to their health. I would say if you're young, fit and healthy then the chances of you needing to be hospitalised are beyond remote, can still happen but very unlikely.
People who are elderly are more susceptible to severe illness than people who are young to Covid.
People who have underlying health conditions are far more likely to be susceptible to severe illness than people who don't to Covid.
People who are unhealthy, overweight or inactive are far more likely to be susceptible to severe illness than people who are to Covid.
These are the three factors that should impact a person's decision, the chances of you dying if you are young, fit and healthy from Covid are so, so, so remote. Have a look at the stats on the Covid dashboard, 13 deaths of u40s in 18 months in around 150k positive cases. I'd hazard a guess obesity would have been present in a lot of those 13 deaths.
People who tick any of the vulnerable category boxes should look after themselves and get the vaccine, if they don't then the upside is really negligible.
You don't take a one size fits all approach to this, you determine it to your own circumstances but some people want to stand their screaming and shouting at others about something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Robinson has had Covid twice in the past year, doesn't seem to have had much of an impact on a young, fit healthy man. Has it? It didn't seem to have a great impact on the Tyrone team this year. It didn't seem to have a great impact on the Spanish side at the Euros. Nor did it seem to have a great impact on Novak Djokovic when he got it last year.
Covid is very dangerous to some categories, it is of minimal threat to other groupings so we should tailor our outlook, attitude and approach to what the data tells us - that is what a rational, pragmatic and sensible person will do. A hysterical, reactionary person might just scream that everyone follow what they did and cast allegations and assertions on others who choose not to. I know which side I'd like to be on in that discussion.
A unvaccinated u50 person is 18 x more likely to be hospitalised than an vaccinated u50.
Nuff said.
At least one of those Tyrone players that "weren't that impacted" was hospitalised. Hospitals are under undue pressure because so many people won't get vaccinated.
Given that we know for a scientifically verifiable fact that the vaccine is:
(i) Safe
(ii) Effective
(iii) Reduces transmission rates dramatically
Then where is there even one good reason for not getting it?
I wonder did Angelo go to the funeral of the lad from Donegal
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 10:34:42 PM
Except the bit you don't seem to get is that the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is a not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of proven scientific fact.
So to say the views of people who don't want to take it deserve respect is just complete nonsense. Why does such a view deserve respect when there is simply no good reason for not taking the vaccine and so many reasons to take it?
Akin to saying we should respect people who decide they are OK to drink and drive because they are of the opinion that alcohol doesn't impair driving. Such an opinion doesn't deserve respect. Not taking the vaccine and willfully putting others at risk because you perhaps believe you know better than the world's scientific and biomedical community about its safety, is an opinion that doesn't deserve respect.
You're contradicting yourself now and you're actually telling lies.
I can google furiously, show you incidents where people died from a reaction to the vaccine, show you incidents where the vaccine has been linked to hospitalisations and illnesses, show you incidents of medical authorities banning certain vaccines in age groups due to cases of illnesses and deaths associated with the vaccine, show you incidents of medical authorities limiting use of certain vaccines due to illness and deaths associated with them. They exist but it's a tit for tat worthless display. You have your subjective bias that thinks your opinion should be enforced dogmatically and anyone who disagrees be labelled negatively. It's easy find that and you want to selectively say the vaccines are safe and then ignore real life incidents that have shown they have caused deaths, have caused severe illnesses - the BBC lady being one specific example, an example that came to light 5 months after she died when the coroner ruled the vaccine caused her death.
For fear of being labelled an anti-vax nut without any foundation, I'll avoid that. If I was over 50, had health ailments or didn't look after myself I'd have no problem getting the vaccine. I'm not though, I'm under 40, I look after myself, I don't do drugs, I've never smoked, I'm physically active, I eat well and have a low body fat %. So the need for the vaccine for me is different to someone else and we have to look at through a lens of rationality and perspective. I look at this debate with respect for people's own situations, not just ramming my views down another person's throat.
Are vaccines effective? You say they are? Great. If they're effective then and we have >90% of the groupings who are at risk of severe illness and death from Covid then why are you so vociferous about people who have such an absolutely minimal chance of getting severely ill or dying from Covid vaccinated? It's a contradictory viewpoint. You tell us the vaccines are effective and then basically say they aren't worth a shite. Which is it?
Effective or ineffective? You seem to saying they are effective but the argument you put forwards says they aren't worth a damn. Do you want us vaccinating 6 and 7 year olds with this next? Where does it stop?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2021, 10:52:49 PM
I wonder did Angelo go to the funeral of the lad from Donegal
Ah look. This isn't even debate.
This is just misrepresentation from a poster incapable of anything intelligent.
You clearly fall into category 3.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
I agree with that and it's entirely sensible. I'm not arguing for or against people to get vaccine or not. I think for some people vaccines have enormous upside, it's well established now which groupings (elderly, ill, obesity, those with auto-immunity issues etc) are at risk - unquestionably these people should be encouraged to get the vaccine for their own benefit. But people who are outside those categories? It's seem to be a very illogical argument to force or coerce these people, against their will, to get a vaccine that has negligible positive impacts for them.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
which lifestyle choices can be substantially sorted with two 3 minute injections?
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 10:52:20 PM
At least one of those Tyrone players that "weren't that impacted" was hospitalised. Hospitals are under undue pressure because so many people won't get vaccinated.
Given that we know for a scientifically verifiable fact that the vaccine is:
(i) Safe
(ii) Effective
(iii) Reduces transmission rates dramatically
Then where is there even one good reason for not getting it?
Hospitals are under pressure for lots of reasons. This seems to be the first time I've ever heard of a public backlash on a grouping in society for the hospital being under pressure.
You want to start picketing take aways now for the hospitals being under pressure? How about pubs? Maybe vaping shops? You want to look at sweet shops?
I'd hazard a guess that more deaths and hospitalisations this year are probably down to poor lifestyle choices and diet than people who choose not to get the vaccine so it's a spurious logic.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 09, 2021, 11:05:25 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
which lifestyle choices can be substantially sorted with two 3 minute injections?
What would two 3 minute injections have sorted for Callum Robinson?
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 11:00:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2021, 10:52:49 PM
I wonder did Angelo go to the funeral of the lad from Donegal
Ah look. This isn't even debate.
This is just misrepresentation from a poster incapable of anything intelligent.
You clearly fall into category 3.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
So that's a no? I didn't think so, Angelo falls into category of rather people dying than have a vaccine that could prevent it. I wonder what that family are thinking now
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 10:58:10 PM
I can google furiously
Nobody doubts that for a second. ;D
But you are unable to think.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2021, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 11:00:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2021, 10:52:49 PM
I wonder did Angelo go to the funeral of the lad from Donegal
Ah look. This isn't even debate.
This is just misrepresentation from a poster incapable of anything intelligent.
You clearly fall into category 3.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
So that's a no? I didn't think so, Angelo falls into category of rather people dying than have a vaccine that could prevent it. I wonder what that family are thinking now
This is hysterical and doesn't warrant any entertaining or indulging your misrepresentations.
I've stated my position very clearly, I'm not anti-vax. I think vulnerable groupings should make get vaccinated and should be encouraged to do so. In the case of Donegal, it was clearly anti-vax nutters and it was sad that the ill man was removed from hospital and not treated.
You're being extremely disingenuous here, debating in bad faith and trying to frame something completely at odds with what I said and the question any sensible or reasonable minded poster would ask when they read your post is what is your motive here?
Why did you interject here, use hysterical and emotive cases to spin something completely with odds to what the poster actually said?
I could go down your rabbit hole, focus on a vaccine related death and attribute it to your vaccine fascism mindset. There's no sensibility in that kind of polarising and dishonest debate though which is why I'll be ignoring any of your contributions from here on in.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 10:58:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 10:34:42 PM
Except the bit you don't seem to get is that the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is a not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of proven scientific fact.
So to say the views of people who don't want to take it deserve respect is just complete nonsense. Why does such a view deserve respect when there is simply no good reason for not taking the vaccine and so many reasons to take it?
Akin to saying we should respect people who decide they are OK to drink and drive because they are of the opinion that alcohol doesn't impair driving. Such an opinion doesn't deserve respect. Not taking the vaccine and willfully putting others at risk because you perhaps believe you know better than the world's scientific and biomedical community about its safety, is an opinion that doesn't deserve respect.
You're contradicting yourself now and you're actually telling lies.
I can google furiously, show you incidents where people died from a reaction to the vaccine, show you incidents where the vaccine has been linked to hospitalisations and illnesses, show you incidents of medical authorities banning certain vaccines in age groups due to cases of illnesses and deaths associated with the vaccine, show you incidents of medical authorities limiting use of certain vaccines due to illness and deaths associated with them. They exist but it's a tit for tat worthless display. You have your subjective bias that thinks your opinion should be enforced dogmatically and anyone who disagrees be labelled negatively. It's easy find that and you want to selectively say the vaccines are safe and then ignore real life incidents that have shown they have caused deaths, have caused severe illnesses - the BBC lady being one specific example, an example that came to light 5 months after she died when the coroner ruled the vaccine caused her death.
For fear of being labelled an anti-vax nut without any foundation, I'll avoid that. If I was over 50, had health ailments or didn't look after myself I'd have no problem getting the vaccine. I'm not though, I'm under 40, I look after myself, I don't do drugs, I've never smoked, I'm physically active, I eat well and have a low body fat %. So the need for the vaccine for me is different to someone else and we have to look at through a lens of rationality and perspective. I look at this debate with respect for people's own situations, not just ramming my views down another person's throat.
Are vaccines effective? You say they are? Great. If they're effective then and we have >90% of the groupings who are at risk of severe illness and death from Covid then why are you so vociferous about people who have such an absolutely minimal chance of getting severely ill or dying from Covid vaccinated? It's a contradictory viewpoint. You tell us the vaccines are effective and then basically say they aren't worth a shite. Which is it?
Effective or ineffective? You seem to saying they are effective but the argument you put forwards says they aren't worth a damn. Do you want us vaccinating 6 and 7 year olds with this next? Where does it stop?
I'm at low risk of dying from covid, but if I caught covid, but is not all about me. I also got vaccinated because it makes me dramatically less likely to spread it to someone who has not been vaccinated. Someone who may be vulnerable. Its not that complicated.
And of course you can use Google to find instances of people taking did effects from the vaccine! I mean is that seriously your argument? Lots of people have taken control of a car while under the influence and didn't have an accident. That didn't mean its a safe thing to do. The number of cases of severe side effects from the vaccine is negligible against the number of people who feel no side effects. People take side effects from all vaccines, as you could also discover from Google. Does that mean no vaccine is safe to take? Cop yourself on ffs
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.
Like ignoring the facts that vaccinated people of all ages have a better chance of survival if contracting the virus, and less chance of pass it in if they do have it!
If they are fit and want to take a chance and selfish enough to pass it on to others then that's just weird.
We'll fail to prepare and we'll go and we'll do our worst
We'll Put 'Em Under Pressure
Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah
Covid denial is about, being offensive, being aggressive, winning a debate in your own head, getting on with fillin' the hospitals
We'll Put 'Em Under Pressure
No way, No way, No way, No way, No way, No way
We're all part of Angelo's Army, we're all pretend from Italy, and we'll really shake them up, when the Covid deaths go up, 'cause Ireland's gonna refuse the vaccine
Put 'Em Under Pressure
Well it's not gonna be easy for us but it's not gonna be easy for the Gardai either
(pushin, pushin' people, pushin' people, pushin' people, pushin' people)
Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah
We inflict our stupidity onto people
Put 'Em Under Pressure
Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah
We've got a culture war to win, culture war to win, culture war to win
Put 'Em Under Pressure
No way, No way, No way, No way, No way, you're gay
We're all part of Angelo's Army, we're all pretend from Italy, and we'll really shake them up, when we win the World Cup, for stupid deaths from Covid-19
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 10:58:10 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 10:34:42 PM
Except the bit you don't seem to get is that the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is a not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of proven scientific fact.
So to say the views of people who don't want to take it deserve respect is just complete nonsense. Why does such a view deserve respect when there is simply no good reason for not taking the vaccine and so many reasons to take it?
Akin to saying we should respect people who decide they are OK to drink and drive because they are of the opinion that alcohol doesn't impair driving. Such an opinion doesn't deserve respect. Not taking the vaccine and willfully putting others at risk because you perhaps believe you know better than the world's scientific and biomedical community about its safety, is an opinion that doesn't deserve respect.
You're contradicting yourself now and you're actually telling lies.
I can google furiously, show you incidents where people died from a reaction to the vaccine, show you incidents where the vaccine has been linked to hospitalisations and illnesses, show you incidents of medical authorities banning certain vaccines in age groups due to cases of illnesses and deaths associated with the vaccine, show you incidents of medical authorities limiting use of certain vaccines due to illness and deaths associated with them. They exist but it's a tit for tat worthless display. You have your subjective bias that thinks your opinion should be enforced dogmatically and anyone who disagrees be labelled negatively. It's easy find that and you want to selectively say the vaccines are safe and then ignore real life incidents that have shown they have caused deaths, have caused severe illnesses - the BBC lady being one specific example, an example that came to light 5 months after she died when the coroner ruled the vaccine caused her death.
For fear of being labelled an anti-vax nut without any foundation, I'll avoid that. If I was over 50, had health ailments or didn't look after myself I'd have no problem getting the vaccine. I'm not though, I'm under 40, I look after myself, I don't do drugs, I've never smoked, I'm physically active, I eat well and have a low body fat %. So the need for the vaccine for me is different to someone else and we have to look at through a lens of rationality and perspective. I look at this debate with respect for people's own situations, not just ramming my views down another person's throat.
Are vaccines effective? You say they are? Great. If they're effective then and we have >90% of the groupings who are at risk of severe illness and death from Covid then why are you so vociferous about people who have such an absolutely minimal chance of getting severely ill or dying from Covid vaccinated? It's a contradictory viewpoint. You tell us the vaccines are effective and then basically say they aren't worth a shite. Which is it?
Effective or ineffective? You seem to saying they are effective but the argument you put forwards says they aren't worth a damn. Do you want us vaccinating 6 and 7 year olds with this next? Where does it stop?
I'm at low risk of dying from covid, but if I caught covid, but is not all about me. I also got vaccinated because it makes me dramatically less likely to spread it to someone who has not been vaccinated. Someone who may be vulnerable. Its not that complicated.
And of course you can use Google to find instances of people taking did effects from the vaccine! I mean is that seriously your argument? Lots of people have taken control of a car while under the influence and didn't have an accident. That didn't mean its a safe thing to do. The number of cases of severe side effects from the vaccine is negligible against the number of people who feel no side effects. People take side effects from all vaccines, as you could also discover from Google. Does that mean no vaccine is safe to take? Cop yourself on ffs
Exactly, it's not all about you.
So respect Callum Robinson's decision. If you're worried about Covid, lock yourself up in a room - don't go down the Joe Duffy route of shaming, denigrating and ridiculing a guy because he made an informed personal decision about his own health. Let us not forget Duffy was screaming for Robinson not be allowed play a game of football because he had a different opinion on vaccination and made a different choice.
You don't seem to except any risk whatsoever, tell me what is acceptable risk? It's something that was never clarified because I'm very confused when I look back and society was willing to accept putting the elderly and vulnerable at risk every winter flu season without any real concern for the huge death tolls that would happen every winter.
Where does it end now? Where is the line with vaccinations? How far in age groupings do you want to go? Do we need to starting vaccinating 5 years olds? 8 year olds?
Maybe grow a bit more of acceptance to the views of others.
As they say, you can't argue with stupid. Lunacy
Quote from: JoG2 on October 09, 2021, 11:49:10 PM
As they say, I just lack the ability to frame a coherent argument
Fixed that for you.
Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?
You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.
I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 11:56:45 PM
Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?
You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.
I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?
Just your views so? Glad we have sorted that out - you're the medical and scientific expert here are you?
You're making analogies there that further undermine your own position. You either believe vaccines work or they don't. You want everyone vaccinated, with no respect for their own wishes, with regard to what benefit they get out of getting a vaccine, because it gives you peace of mind? That's selfish.
People take the vaccines to protect themselves, that's the whole point of them - if they don't protect you then why take them? If you don't believe they protect you then why do you want others to take them? It's utterly illogical the fervour some people are placing on others doing the same as them, against that person's own individual will.
The reasons to or not too get vaccinated isn't a catch all question? It's a unique question for every individual and their own circumstances, like most things in life which is why I'd dread to live in the sort of totalitarian society you seem to be supporting. Anyone who makes a choice on whether to get or not to get an injection now is subject to your judgement or vilification if their choice differs to yours? Do you think that's a healthy outlook for society? Rather than trying to understand people and their decisions - let's just shame them and judge them, right?
Robinson was very articulate and reasonable when he spoke to the media, sadly some people have instigated a witch hunt against him, because God forbid, his decision on whether or not he got an injection into his own body, a choice about his own personal health, differed from what they decided to do with their body.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 11:56:45 PM
Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?
You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.
I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?
Just your views so? Glad we have sorted that out - you're the medical and scientific expert here are you?
You're making analogies there that further undermine your own position. You either believe vaccines work or they don't. You want everyone vaccinated, with no respect for their own wishes, with regard to what benefit they get out of getting a vaccine, because it gives you peace of mind? That's selfish.
People take the vaccines to protect themselves, that's the whole point of them - if they don't protect you then why take them? If you don't believe they protect you then why do you want others to take them? It's utterly illogical the fervour some people are placing on others doing the same as them, against that person's own individual will.
The reasons to or not too get vaccinated isn't a catch all question? It's a unique question for every individual and their own circumstances, like most things in life which is why I'd dread to live in the sort of totalitarian society you seem to be supporting. Anyone who makes a choice on whether to get or not to get an injection now is subject to your judgement or vilification if their choice differs to yours? Do you think that's a healthy outlook for society? Rather than trying to understand people and their decisions - let's just shame them and judge them, right?
Robinson was very articulate and reasonable when he spoke to the media, sadly some people have instigated a witch hunt against him, because God forbid, his decision on whether or not he got an injection into his own body, a choice about his own personal health, differed from what they decided to do with their body.
More straw man arguments. I didn't take the vaccine for the psychological peace of mind. I took it to help protect myself and those I come into contact with.
And I'm not claiming to be a scientific/medical expert - I'm saying that I trust those who are. I'm saying that if the almost unanimous findings of those people who ARE scientific and medical experts, across the whole wide world, is that the vaccine is safe, effective, and necessary; then they are probably right.
You are the one challenging the conclusion of the world's scientific community, not me. So front up with the research you have carried out that refutes their conclusions, or else just admit that you just think you know better than them.
He's a mate that works in the big pharmaceutical companies
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 09, 2021, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.
The vaccine either works or it doesn't.
You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?
Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.
There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.
If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.
I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.
And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.
It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.
To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.
They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.
The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?
People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.
If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?
There are three types of people in this debate
1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one
Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.
How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.
I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.
Yep, good post
Not a good post really.
Why does a case need to die for you to take it seriously?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 10, 2021, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 09, 2021, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.
Yet, these people could decide not to start smoking, start drinking, start abusing drugs, start eating shite. But, fully aware that these things put a strain on the health service, they "selfishly" do it anyway and they get a free ride for it in comparison to the unvaccinated.
One drink does not cause a problem. It's when addition takes hold. And by that stage it can be too late. There is no comparison.
Yep, fail to see how it's a good post. Take this bit of nonsense, for instance:
"I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat."
1. Of course your age means you are at a reduced risk of dying if you catch covid, however, because you are unvaccinated, you are still then at a higher risk of catching it which means that:
2. If you do catch it, you are up to two thirds more likely to transmit it than someone who was vaccinated, making you a significantly greater threat to the health of those around you than if you had been vaccinated.
So like I say, your decision for not getting jabbed is seemingly down to the selfish idea that catching covid doesn't pose a big threat to you and thats all that matters so who cares about the vulnerable person you are at an increased risk of transmitting it to.
My primary reason for getting jabbed was not because I weighed up how at risk I felt from dying of covid. I got it because I understood that it dramatically reduces the potential of me infecting vulnerable people around me if I did catch it..
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 10, 2021, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 09, 2021, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.
Yet, these people could decide not to start smoking, start drinking, start abusing drugs, start eating shite. But, fully aware that these things put a strain on the health service, they "selfishly" do it anyway and they get a free ride for it in comparison to the unvaccinated.
Yet the concept of taking two five second jabs to greatly reduce your chance of getting Covid - and greatly reduce your chances of having serious symptoms and spreading it if you do get it - is lost on you.
Do you think frontline medical staff - you know, doctors and nurses - the people that were clapped on streets - would prefer if the population were vaccinated or unvaccinated heading into this winter?
What do you think?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 10, 2021, 09:00:56 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 07:48:43 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 10, 2021, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 09, 2021, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 09, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.
Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.
Yet, these people could decide not to start smoking, start drinking, start abusing drugs, start eating shite. But, fully aware that these things put a strain on the health service, they "selfishly" do it anyway and they get a free ride for it in comparison to the unvaccinated.
One drink does not cause a problem. It's when addition takes hold. And by that stage it can be too late. There is no comparison.
You do not need to be addicted to alcohol for it to have a negative impact on your health, which will eventually lead to you requiring medical services. Many peoples social drinking will do this. The government issue guidelines on how many units you shouldn't go beyond etc and they do this with good reason. They are routinely ignored by many people (and by me often enough).
The reason for this is that in many cases it can be hard to identify that it was solely the drink that caused the health issues. It can be one contributing factor. You tend to find that those who are alcoholics also have a stigma attached and do not get a free ride.
Plus if there was a vaccine that would prevent illness from drink. People would rightly take it.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 10, 2021, 08:57:13 AM
It is not lost on me. I got it. I encourage people to get it.
The point is that people "selfishly" do lots of things that have a crippling effect on our health service. We just choose to accept some of them.
Obesity and alcohol addiction and smoking addiction do not spread in the air and kill others rapidly in epidemics and overwhelm the health system and cripple societies within weeks.
Covid does, and retains the potential to cripple our societies again, it is currently crippling other societies - Romania had 385 Covid deaths the other day in a population of 19 million.
It has to be wilful stupidity at this stage how people can't see this.
This remains an existential crisis for societies.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 10, 2021, 09:39:11 AM
That, I get. The spreading it to other people is the problem.
That said. I am fully vaccinated. I got Covid and I passed it on to others. I'm not sure that leaves me in a position to pontificate to the unvaccinated.
The word "pontificate" is not an argument.
The fact is that Covid is an existential threat to the functioning of society and it's an existential threat to the functioning of our health services.
We are all asked to get two five second jabs to do our bit towards preventing this from happening - as well as greatly helping to protect both ourselves and our loved ones and anybody we come into contact with.
The simple fact is if a person falls into the great majority of people who are eligible to be vaccinated, there is no good reason not to get vaccinated.
All the "arguments" against vaccination have been blown out of the water.
Anybody who refuses vaccination is doing so based on either false information or a completely wrong risk/benefit analysis. They are WRONG.
I cannot comprehend of what motivation would lead somebody to make this wrong decision, other than stupidity, selfishness, or a nihilistic desire to see society collapse.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2021, 01:16:37 AM
Not a good post really.
Why does a case need to die for you to take it seriously?
Benny's seal of approval ;D
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
I'm 100% behind vaccinations due to strong evidence but until we see out this winter, vaccinations alone will not protect the nhs. People still need to practice as much Covid safety as possible, but get closer to
Normalisation so that people don't get burnt out. There are fairly easy wins in terms of Covid safety , like distancing , hygiene, stay outdoors, wear masks where appropriate , and avoid complacency . Only those measures in conjunction with maximum vaccination will give us our best chance. We're not over this yet, but we can be.
Quote from: 6th sam on October 10, 2021, 10:54:03 AM
I'm 100% behind vaccinations due to strong evidence but until we see out this winter, vaccinations alone will not protect the nhs. People still need to practice as much Covid safety as possible, but get closer to
Normalisation so that people don't get burnt out. There are fairly easy wins in terms of Covid safety , like distancing , hygiene, stay outdoors, wear masks where appropriate , and avoid complacency . Only those measures in conjunction with maximum vaccination will give us our best chance. We're not over this yet, but we can be.
I thoroughly agree with this - even when all restrictions are lifted, people have to exercise responsibility - but as soon as somebody says anything like this, the anti-vaxxers jump on it as crude, reductionist "proof" that "the vaccines don't work - even those who are in favour of vaccination say so!!!!"
Either these crude reductionists are genuinely stupid in that they have ZERO understanding of nuance - or they are outright nihilist disinformation peddlers - which is, let's not beat around the bush - evil.
It's very hard not to get angry at such arrant nonsense. And in a way that's the anti-vaxxers' game - that they can play the victim - always the victim. "You're bullying us!!!!"
In reality what they want is an extreme form of political correctness where categorically WRONG opinions are given equal standing to facts.
The cancer of false balance.
And if you don't give these opinions equal respect - as you shouldn't - it's "bullying!!!!!"
See the reaction to Callum Robinson. Robinson voluntarily disclosed he was not vaccinated and quite understandably this provoked some negative reaction in society at large. As soon as Robinson disclosed he was not vaccinated he is then 100% fair game for questions about why he is not vaccinated. He could not give one good reason.
Whatever wrong opinion led Callum Robinson and other players to not get vaccinated is not worthy of respect. And he is categorically NOT being bullied. He either believes wrong information or he is just downright selfish in a way that when applied to a wider section of the population, has seriously harmful consequences for society.
And that must be called out.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?
Quote from: Eire90 on October 10, 2021, 11:13:45 AM
Anyone that drives a car is being selfish the act of you driving a car increases the chances of road accidents why are you not calling out car drivers.
Funny you mention that - because very soon we are all going to have to come to terms with the fact that economic activity in the world will have to reduce - or the planet faces climate catastrophe.
And it seems impossible to imagine anything other than humanity failing that test.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:15:12 AM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 09, 2021, 11:56:45 PM
Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?
You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.
I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?
Just your views so? Glad we have sorted that out - you're the medical and scientific expert here are you?
You're making analogies there that further undermine your own position. You either believe vaccines work or they don't. You want everyone vaccinated, with no respect for their own wishes, with regard to what benefit they get out of getting a vaccine, because it gives you peace of mind? That's selfish.
People take the vaccines to protect themselves, that's the whole point of them - if they don't protect you then why take them? If you don't believe they protect you then why do you want others to take them? It's utterly illogical the fervour some people are placing on others doing the same as them, against that person's own individual will.
The reasons to or not too get vaccinated isn't a catch all question? It's a unique question for every individual and their own circumstances, like most things in life which is why I'd dread to live in the sort of totalitarian society you seem to be supporting. Anyone who makes a choice on whether to get or not to get an injection now is subject to your judgement or vilification if their choice differs to yours? Do you think that's a healthy outlook for society? Rather than trying to understand people and their decisions - let's just shame them and judge them, right?
Robinson was very articulate and reasonable when he spoke to the media, sadly some people have instigated a witch hunt against him, because God forbid, his decision on whether or not he got an injection into his own body, a choice about his own personal health, differed from what they decided to do with their body.
More straw man arguments. I didn't take the vaccine for the psychological peace of mind. I took it to help protect myself and those I come into contact with.
And I'm not claiming to be a scientific/medical expert - I'm saying that I trust those who are. I'm saying that if the almost unanimous findings of those people who ARE scientific and medical experts, across the whole wide world, is that the vaccine is safe, effective, and necessary; then they are probably right.
You are the one challenging the conclusion of the world's scientific community, not me. So front up with the research you have carried out that refutes their conclusions, or else just admit that you just think you know better than them.
You took a personal choice to take the vaccine due to perceived benefits. That's fine, that's your decision and I respect that.
How about you do other people the same courtesy and afford that they have genuine reasons for not wanting to take the vaccine at this time? My arguments are not straw man arguments, yours certainly are as you are the one with blinkered, intolerant and contradictory viewpoints that circle round to why everyone should come to the same decision as yours.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
;D the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding
This morning John Bruton's son has been revealed by media to be a member of an extreme Catholic, far right, Holocaust denying group.
The exact same logic that says Callum Robinson is being "bullied" for being questioned over his stupid/selfish/wrong/whatever you're having yourself decision not to get vaccinated, would surely say that Bruton's son is being "bullied" too for his appalling decisions?
Yes?
Otherwise the "logic" falls flat on its face.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?
This is just incredible. You fully believe that in the past week there were 18 unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions compared for every vaccinated hospital admission.
If you look at the death stats for the past month, the overwhelming amount of deaths are over 60s. Are the vast majority of over 60s not fully vaccinated? Maybe upward of 80% of over 60s?
The next notable statistic is cases, the vast majority of cases are now school children, under the age of 14, it's been that way for over a good month? And these people are generally not been hospitalised and are clearly not dying.
So if you are repeating that statement and not even questioning the veracity of it then I think it tells you that you'd swallow anything you're told.
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/6/e6739991d4a5142c7c23f1640bbb673530c1ffc7.png)
That's the statistics on Covid cases at present. It's the 7 day average, it's been fairly steady at that over the past month.
Now, can you confirm the number of hospital admissions under the age of 15 (a wholly unvaccinated grouping). According to that we've had around 5k steady positive cases in each of the past 4 weeks. That's around 20k unvaccinated positive cases in under 15s in the past month, all unvaccinated - how many deaths in the past 4 weeks under 15? Zero deaths. How many hospital admissions of under 15 in the past 4 weeks? How many under 15s in ICU with Covid in the past 4 weeks?
Surely by your 18 to 1 assertion that you swallowed without questioning, it should be loaded with hospitalised under 15s as they are the ones getting Covid now and they are the ones who are unvaccinated?
The fact is you are incapable of probing and challenging what you're told, you just accept it and repeat and this is why you begin to look a little bit silly.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 10, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
;D the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/6/5/65988508a3b4d0061d452527b000b96eefce928b.png)
There's 35 people in ICU at present with Covid?
What's the breakdown of unvaccinated vs vaccinated of these 35 people?
Surely in order to make such a brazen and definitive assertion you must know? Because if you are speaking on matters with such authority on the basis of brazen ignorance then I would say it shows you have absolutely zero credibility on this subject and you badly undermine an argument to convince people that are hesitant to get a vaccine to change their mind.
You win people over with being honest and trying to encourage and convince people to your side with respect, you seem to want to demand people to take your side and use bullyboy tactics and misinformation.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
The justification for people not getting vaccinated is their personal choice. Should we vaccinate 8 year olds?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
Who is more likely to behave responsibly? Somebody who has already taken the responsible decision to get vaccinated, or somebody who has already taken the irresponsible decision to not get vaccinated?
Who is more likely to take the responsible decision to wear a seat belt? Somebody who has taken the responsible decision to remain sober while driving or somebody who has taken the irresponsible decision to drive while drunk?
Responsible decisions tend to go together. So do irresponsible ones.
You say the vaccine is "a help"? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the case that you aren't vaccinated?
If so, you recognise that society returning to normal depends on a very high vaccine take up among the population at large - but yet you yourself refuse to help?
Let's be clear what people who are not vaccinated are saying - they are saying they would have no problem at all if NOBODY was vaccinated and Delta continued to run absolutely rampant around an unvaccinated population, causing mass death on a much greater scale than we have already seen.
Because they themselves have taken the decision to not get vaccinated.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
The justification for people not getting vaccinated is their personal choice. Should we vaccinate 8 year olds?
If it is proven to be safe then absolutely.
Before the age of 8 a child is vaccinated against Hep B, Diptheria, Polio, Tetanus. MenB, MenC, whooping cough, rotavirus. Why should be covid be any different?
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:29:40 AM
You took a personal choice to take the vaccine due to perceived benefits. That's fine, that's your decision and I respect that.
How about you do other people the same courtesy and afford that they have genuine reasons for not wanting to take the vaccine at this time? My arguments are not straw man arguments, yours certainly are as you are the one with blinkered, intolerant and contradictory viewpoints that circle round to why everyone should come to the same decision as yours.
I. didn't take the vaccine for the "perceived" benefits. I took it for the scientifically verifiable benefits. That's the difference.
I'm not saying you should be forced to get vaccinated. I am saying that there is no logical reason not to, and that I should not have to respect your opinion that not getting the vaccine is a morally justifiable thing to do. It's a deeply stupid, selfish, arrogant thing to do. It's my right to believe as much.
You still haven't given one good reason for not getting vaccinated. You know why? Because there is no good reason. So why don't you just admit that you just think you are more qualified to talk about the vaccine than the world's scientific community?
Q1. Do you accept that the vaccine reduces your chances of catching covid?
Q2. Do you accept that the vaccine reduces you capacity to transmit covid to someone else by up to two thirds?
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Should we vaccinate 8 year olds?
If vaccines are deemed safe and approved for 8 year olds - and it seems certain vaccines are going to be deemed safe by the experts and approved for use for as low as 5 year olds in the US very soon - why would we
not vaccinate 8 year old children - or 5 year old children for that matter?
If and when the vaccines are approved for children down to 0 years old, why on earth would we
not vaccinate them too?
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
"Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine."
Those are mitigations that are still essential, even with the availability of a vaccine. But like I said, many many people have clearly given up on them once they've been jabbed. So are those people not being selfish? Are they not responsible for keeping rates high?
Quote from: JoG2 on October 10, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
;D the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding
This is just incredible.
It's easy comment for JOG2 to back up, there's currently 35 people in ICU with Covid. He has to have the data to support this, he should provide it here and along with his source or he should admit he's dealing in quite hysterical misinformation to support his viewpoint? It's simply and misinformation on Covid needs to be called out across the board. Vaccine fascists like JOG2 are polarising this debate every bit as much as the anti-vax nutters.
There's also the rather snide and crude terming of people who believe people's choices should be respected on whether or not to get the vaccine as anti-vax. Not deciding to get the Covid vaccine does not meant you are anti-vax, there's plenty of people who are quite happy to get vaccines but for whatever reasons have reservations or do not see the upside to getting this particular vaccine - that should be met with respect but the vaccine fascists prefer to gaslight people with an opposing viewpoint by putting incorrect and derogatory labels on them. This is misrepresentation and again I have to ask, what is the motive behind people who want to misrepresent other views and beliefs? Rather than the debate the issue with that person they want to make out they are arguing something they quite clearly are not. A number of posters like Milltown Row have engaged in this tactic already in this thread. You're another one.
It's embarrassing for you.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
The justification for people not getting vaccinated is their personal choice. Should we vaccinate 8 year olds?
If it is proven to be safe then absolutely.
Before the age of 8 a child is vaccinated against Hep B, Diptheria, Polio, Tetanus. MenB, MenC, whooping cough, rotavirus. Why should be covid be any different?
That's another falsehood. People have died and got seriously ill from the vaccine. No medical or scientific person would declare the vaccine is absolutely safe, it's officially acknowledged there are potential side effects that cause deaths and severe illnesses. You should correct your statement now to acknowledge that. They might be happy of the minimal chance of those incidents but vaccines have been limited from use already for long periods of time due to the severe incidents they were causing.
The data is there on the dashboard, we've had 13 deaths in ~150k cases in the under 40 category. We do not know how many of those 13 deaths had underlying health conditions, it would be brilliant if the NHS disclosed that information, it would allow people make more informed decisions. I'd personally love to know how many of that 13 suffered with obesity. From the early American figures, obesity seemed to be hugely linked to deaths of younger people from Covid.
Was at large scale vaccination program this morning, now I've only ever had the flu once and would be very healthy fit not over weight person, but the surgery is carrying out its flu jab program. Jab taken at 10.45 and I'm still alive surprisingly, I didn't check out the Facebook experts beforehand otherwise they'd have talked me out of it! no after effects just like the Covid vaccination.
Had to laugh though some aul boy was getting out of his car with his family, straight away feg in mouth as he was lining up at the queue for the flu jab!!
Bump
Quote from: JoG2 on October 09, 2021, 11:49:10 PM
As they say, you can't argue with stupid. Lunacy
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
The justification for people not getting vaccinated is their personal choice. Should we vaccinate 8 year olds?
If it is proven to be safe then absolutely.
Before the age of 8 a child is vaccinated against Hep B, Diptheria, Polio, Tetanus. MenB, MenC, whooping cough, rotavirus. Why should be covid be any different?
What's the upside of vaccinating an 8 year old against something that is of minimal threat to an 8 year old?
Would you vaccinate your 8 year old against the flu?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 12:00:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
I'm not saying social distancing etc isn't still essential. It is. But it's not the main weapon against the pandemic and the lack of social distancing is no justification for not getting vaccinated.
"Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine."
Those are mitigations that are still essential, even with the availability of a vaccine. But like I said, many many people have clearly given up on them once they've been jabbed. So are those people not being selfish? Are they not responsible for keeping rates high?
Of course they re still essential, but the fact that people do it less doesn't make vaccination any less crucial.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2021, 11:52:48 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.
There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.
Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?
So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.
Another two people (regardless of vaccination status) meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.
Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?
You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!
So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.
Who is more likely to behave responsibly? Somebody who has already taken the responsible decision to get vaccinated, or somebody who has already taken the irresponsible decision to not get vaccinated?
Who is more likely to take the responsible decision to wear a seat belt? Somebody who has taken the responsible decision to remain sober while driving or somebody who has taken the irresponsible decision to drive while drunk?
Responsible decisions tend to go together. So do irresponsible ones.
You say the vaccine is "a help"? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the case that you aren't vaccinated?
If so, you recognise that society returning to normal depends on a very high vaccine take up among the population at large - but yet you yourself refuse to help?
Let's be clear what people who are not vaccinated are saying - they are saying they would have no problem at all if NOBODY was vaccinated and Delta continued to run absolutely rampant around an unvaccinated population, causing mass death on a much greater scale than we have already seen.
Because they themselves have taken the decision to not get vaccinated.
I've clearly seen it. As more and more people got vaccinated, all covid advice has disappeared. Mask wearing, distancing, hygiene, congregating etc. Alot of vccinated people think they are no longer st risk, and abandon all advice. The 'I'm alright jack' line of thinking. But yet it's unvaccinated people that get all the abuse.
I don't see the point in being vaccinated if you're going to abandon all guidelines about stopping transmission (because the vaccine doesn't stop transmission). A vaccinated person who is ignoring all covid guidance is more dangerous than an unvaccinated person who is following all the guidelines.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 12:02:30 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 10, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
;D the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding
This is just incredible.
It's easy comment for JOG2 to back up, there's currently 35 people in ICU with Covid. He has to have the data to support this, he should provide it here and along with his source or he should admit he's dealing in quite hysterical misinformation to support his viewpoint? It's simply and misinformation on Covid needs to be called out across the board. Vaccine fascists like JOG2 are polarising this debate every bit as much as the anti-vax nutters.
There's also the rather snide and crude terming of people who believe people's choices should be respected on whether or not to get the vaccine as anti-vax. Not deciding to get the Covid vaccine does not meant you are anti-vax, there's plenty of people who are quite happy to get vaccines but for whatever reasons have reservations or do not see the upside to getting this particular vaccine - that should be met with respect but the vaccine fascists prefer to gaslight people with an opposing viewpoint by putting incorrect and derogatory labels on them. This is misrepresentation and again I have to ask, what is the motive behind people who want to misrepresent other views and beliefs? Rather than the debate the issue with that person they want to make out they are arguing something they quite clearly are not. A number of posters like Milltown Row have engaged in this tactic already in this thread. You're another one.
It's embarrassing for you.
I would agree with that. Be more like 6th Sam JoG. Snide comments & mis information do nothing to add to this thread.
The vaccine no doubt is much better than the alternative for society, however its efficacy is disappointing, surely a more effective vaccine or treatment can be developed. Double Jabs & booster Jabs that don't offer anything close to full protection from Covid is not where we want to be. Surely science can do better?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 12:14:02 PM
I don't see the point in being vaccinated
You should have just left it there. It's obviously what you are determined to think.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2021, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 12:14:02 PM
I don't see the point in being vaccinated
You should have just left it there. It's obviously what you are determined to think.
That's right. You draw your own narrative from what I said ::)
Quote from: Rudi on October 10, 2021, 12:14:22 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 12:02:30 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 10, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
;D the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding
This is just incredible.
It's easy comment for JOG2 to back up, there's currently 35 people in ICU with Covid. He has to have the data to support this, he should provide it here and along with his source or he should admit he's dealing in quite hysterical misinformation to support his viewpoint? It's simply and misinformation on Covid needs to be called out across the board. Vaccine fascists like JOG2 are polarising this debate every bit as much as the anti-vax nutters.
There's also the rather snide and crude terming of people who believe people's choices should be respected on whether or not to get the vaccine as anti-vax. Not deciding to get the Covid vaccine does not meant you are anti-vax, there's plenty of people who are quite happy to get vaccines but for whatever reasons have reservations or do not see the upside to getting this particular vaccine - that should be met with respect but the vaccine fascists prefer to gaslight people with an opposing viewpoint by putting incorrect and derogatory labels on them. This is misrepresentation and again I have to ask, what is the motive behind people who want to misrepresent other views and beliefs? Rather than the debate the issue with that person they want to make out they are arguing something they quite clearly are not. A number of posters like Milltown Row have engaged in this tactic already in this thread. You're another one.
It's embarrassing for you.
I would agree with that. Be more like 6th Sam JoG. Snide comments & mis information do nothing to add to this thread.
The vaccine no doubt is much better than the alternative for society, however its efficacy is disappointing, surely a more effective vaccine or treatment can be developed. Double Jabs & booster Jabs that don't offer anything close to full protection from Covid is not where we want to be. Surely science can do better?
100%
My stance on Covid vaccine would be the same as my stance on the flu vaccine. Covid is clearly a major threat to people who are ill, elderly or in poor health. There's an incentive there for them to get the vaccine and give themselves the best possible protecting against contracting Covid and fighting it off. We know on the data and I'm at pains repeating myself here, 13 deaths in 150k~ cases in the u40 age bracket - unfortunately we have not been provided any further information on the breakdown of these 13 deaths, how many had underlying health conditions, how many were obese or overweight, were smokers. This is information in the public interest that should be shared.
Forcing, shaming and coercing sections of society into doing something against their will that the data says is of negligible benefit to them personally is wrong and those who engage in misrepresenting opposing, I think it tells you all you need to know about the lack of conviction they have in their own stance.
They want people to get a jab they seemingly have little faith actually works. It's anti-logic. Seemingly these people aren't worried for me (the unprotected), they're worried for themselves (the protected) and they want us to believe the vaccines are great yet they don't seem to have faith in them doing their job? Bizarre.
They do work. That is a matter if verifiable fact.
Your stance on the jab seems to be all about the risk of catching it. The jab is not just a way to prevent catching it, it's a way to prevent transmitting it.
When the world's scientists say it is effective, where is your evidence for disagreeing?
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:34:29 PM
They do work. That is a matter if verifiable fact.
Your stance on the jab seems to be all about the risk of catching it. The jab is not just a way to prevent catching it, it's a way to prevent transmitting it.
When the world's scientists say it is effective, where is your evidence for disagreeing?
Great so, why are you concerned if they work? Surely it's only those unvaccinated who in danger so and if they choose to be in danger then that's their problem.
My stance on the vaccine is that the data shows my chance of getting seriously ill or dying from Covid is absolutely minimal.
I acknowledge my chance of having an adverse reaction that could cause serious illness or death from the vaccine are more remote than the minimal chance of Covid.
I also factor in that I may never actually get Covid so may never actually get exposed to something that gives me that minimal chance in the first place whereas I would voluntarily be giving myself the thing that exposes me to a more remote chance of adverse side effect.
Finally I don't know anything about my own immunity, it's quite possible I've had Covid unknowingly already and have immunity. I can't understand why mass antibody testing hasn't been carried out.
I've considered all the above and arrived at a logical position for me. I am happy for people to do their own analysis of the situation and make their own personal decisions.
Unfortunately all the above is common sense, it's pragmatic, rational, logical and sensible and the biggest problem it seems for some people who have got the vaccine, it not only has it made them immune from Covid but a side effect is it has made them immune from common sense too.
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
You're the one demanding other people conform to your viewpoint with little regard for them making their own independent choices and no respect shown to them if they differ from you. That's the selfish part you ignore. It doesn't revolve around your viewpoint, people should have the freedom to make informed decisions without coercion or insults.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 10, 2021, 01:09:08 PM
Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.
What part of the vaccine went through all the normal drug approvals do people not understand?
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 10, 2021, 01:09:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.
That might be more credible if the same young people were not taking experimental pharmaceuticals in other contexts.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
The part youand others ignore is, if he is unvaccinated but taking all precautions necessary, then he's less of a risk of transmitting the virus than a vaccinated person who has given up adhering to any of the guidance.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?
This is just incredible. You fully believe that in the past week there were 18 unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions compared for every vaccinated hospital admission.
If you look at the death stats for the past month, the overwhelming amount of deaths are over 60s. Are the vast majority of over 60s not fully vaccinated? Maybe upward of 80% of over 60s?
The next notable statistic is cases, the vast majority of cases are now school children, under the age of 14, it's been that way for over a good month? And these people are generally not been hospitalised and are clearly not dying.
So if you are repeating that statement and not even questioning the veracity of it then I think it tells you that you'd swallow anything you're told.
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/6/e6739991d4a5142c7c23f1640bbb673530c1ffc7.png)
That's the statistics on Covid cases at present. It's the 7 day average, it's been fairly steady at that over the past month.
Now, can you confirm the number of hospital admissions under the age of 15 (a wholly unvaccinated grouping). According to that we've had around 5k steady positive cases in each of the past 4 weeks. That's around 20k unvaccinated positive cases in under 15s in the past month, all unvaccinated - how many deaths in the past 4 weeks under 15? Zero deaths. How many hospital admissions of under 15 in the past 4 weeks? How many under 15s in ICU with Covid in the past 4 weeks?
Surely by your 18 to 1 assertion that you swallowed without questioning, it should be loaded with hospitalised under 15s as they are the ones getting Covid now and they are the ones who are unvaccinated?
The fact is you are incapable of probing and challenging what you're told, you just accept it and repeat and this is why you begin to look a little bit silly.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-coronavirus-breakdown-shows-21779939.amp
QuoteAnd for adults under 50, whilst the numbers admitted to hospital are lower, an unvaccinated individual is almost 18 times as likely to need hospitalisation.
I'll take their word over yours.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 10, 2021, 01:09:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.
It's not an experimental vaccine. It has proven itself as safe as any other vaccine. That's precisely the sort of utter bullsh1t conspiracy theory misinformation that society is up against and that gullible people are at risk of falling for.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 01:39:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
You're the one demanding other people conform to your viewpoint with little regard for them making their own independent choices and no respect shown to them if they differ from you. That's the selfish part you ignore. It doesn't revolve around your viewpoint, people should have the freedom to make informed decisions without coercion or insults.
For the last time: I respect your right to choose for yourself. I reserve the right to not respect anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated.
I note in your reply that you again ignore my point: getting the jab is not just about whether YOU are at risk from covid, but about reducing your potential to transmit covid to others (some of whom may be vulnerable).
Why are you so determined to ignore that aspect? Guilty conscience?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 02:00:03 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.
The part youand others ignore is, if he is unvaccinated but taking all precautions necessary, then he's less of a risk of transmitting the virus than a vaccinated person who has given up adhering to any of the guidance.
So you think it's just the vaccinated who are disregarding social distancing? In my experience, it's the age group that is mostly unvaccinated (18-30) that are most carefree about social distancing/masks.
None of which changes the point that the biggest defence we have against the pandemic is vaccination.
Unless you are seriously saying "don't get it! you'll only stop all that social distancing you are being so particular about!"
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?
This is just incredible. You fully believe that in the past week there were 18 unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions compared for every vaccinated hospital admission.
If you look at the death stats for the past month, the overwhelming amount of deaths are over 60s. Are the vast majority of over 60s not fully vaccinated? Maybe upward of 80% of over 60s?
The next notable statistic is cases, the vast majority of cases are now school children, under the age of 14, it's been that way for over a good month? And these people are generally not been hospitalised and are clearly not dying.
So if you are repeating that statement and not even questioning the veracity of it then I think it tells you that you'd swallow anything you're told.
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/6/e6739991d4a5142c7c23f1640bbb673530c1ffc7.png)
That's the statistics on Covid cases at present. It's the 7 day average, it's been fairly steady at that over the past month.
Now, can you confirm the number of hospital admissions under the age of 15 (a wholly unvaccinated grouping). According to that we've had around 5k steady positive cases in each of the past 4 weeks. That's around 20k unvaccinated positive cases in under 15s in the past month, all unvaccinated - how many deaths in the past 4 weeks under 15? Zero deaths. How many hospital admissions of under 15 in the past 4 weeks? How many under 15s in ICU with Covid in the past 4 weeks?
Surely by your 18 to 1 assertion that you swallowed without questioning, it should be loaded with hospitalised under 15s as they are the ones getting Covid now and they are the ones who are unvaccinated?
The fact is you are incapable of probing and challenging what you're told, you just accept it and repeat and this is why you begin to look a little bit silly.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-coronavirus-breakdown-shows-21779939.amp
QuoteAnd for adults under 50, whilst the numbers admitted to hospital are lower, an unvaccinated individual is almost 18 times as likely to need hospitalisation.
I'll take their word over yours.
Exactly. You'll take their word for it without any basis for taking their word for it.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 11:43:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around 1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?
I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing, congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.
Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?
This is just incredible. You fully believe that in the past week there were 18 unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions compared for every vaccinated hospital admission.
If you look at the death stats for the past month, the overwhelming amount of deaths are over 60s. Are the vast majority of over 60s not fully vaccinated? Maybe upward of 80% of over 60s?
The next notable statistic is cases, the vast majority of cases are now school children, under the age of 14, it's been that way for over a good month? And these people are generally not been hospitalised and are clearly not dying.
So if you are repeating that statement and not even questioning the veracity of it then I think it tells you that you'd swallow anything you're told.
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/6/e6739991d4a5142c7c23f1640bbb673530c1ffc7.png)
That's the statistics on Covid cases at present. It's the 7 day average, it's been fairly steady at that over the past month.
Now, can you confirm the number of hospital admissions under the age of 15 (a wholly unvaccinated grouping). According to that we've had around 5k steady positive cases in each of the past 4 weeks. That's around 20k unvaccinated positive cases in under 15s in the past month, all unvaccinated - how many deaths in the past 4 weeks under 15? Zero deaths. How many hospital admissions of under 15 in the past 4 weeks? How many under 15s in ICU with Covid in the past 4 weeks?
Surely by your 18 to 1 assertion that you swallowed without questioning, it should be loaded with hospitalised under 15s as they are the ones getting Covid now and they are the ones who are unvaccinated?
The fact is you are incapable of probing and challenging what you're told, you just accept it and repeat and this is why you begin to look a little bit silly.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-coronavirus-breakdown-shows-21779939.amp
QuoteAnd for adults under 50, whilst the numbers admitted to hospital are lower, an unvaccinated individual is almost 18 times as likely to need hospitalisation.
I'll take their word over yours.
Exactly. You'll take their word for it without any basis for taking their word for it.
I know. Amazing.
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
Some figures.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/
67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
Some figures.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/
67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.
So, 67% are unvaccinated. 3% partially vaccinated.
And... the other 30% ?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2021, 08:18:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
Some figures.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/
67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.
So, 67% are unvaccinated. 3% partially vaccinated.
And... the other 30% ?
Are you being serious? I have to ask.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
Some figures.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/
67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.
You do realise 67% is exectively 2:1 unvaccinated to vaccinated not 18:1?
Yes?
So now do you see how ridiculous the assertion that you are 18x more likely to end up in hospital if you're unvaccinated is?
You do realise that that 67% comes from a around 25% of the population who are unvaccinated. I'm not a mathematician so someone else can work out the % of the current icu make up in relation to general population.
Plus that rate was for the U50's as we were chatting about you specifically as an U40.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:34:56 PM
You do realise that that 67% comes from a around 25% of the population who are unvaccinated. I'm not a mathematician so someone else can work out the % of the current icu make up in relation to general population.
Plus that rate was for the U50's as we were chatting about you specifically as an U40.
So 18x more likely?
18x of what?
What's the odds you end up in hospital if you're under 40, fit and healthy?
1 in 50,000 say?
So that then drops down to 1 in 3,000 if you aren't vaccinated and that's if they actually get Covid and if they haven't already got natural immunity? Can you see why people look at that information and come to the conclusion a vaccine offers negligible benefits to them?
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
You don't do irony, do you? Just about every scientist on the planet has tested the premise that the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccine and recommend we all take it, yet along comes you to tell us that you know better.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
You don't do irony, do you? Just about average scientist on the planet has tested the premise that the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccine and recommend we all take it, yet along comes you to tell us that you know better.
Nope. You don't do irony.
Science is conflicted on a lot of things, including Covid, including vaccines.
You seem to be selectively ignoring deaths associated with the vaccine, serious side effects associated with the vaccines, medical authorities in certain countries halting certain vaccines, suspending certain vaccines for use with particular age categories due to side effects associated with them that caused death and serious illness.
Now, why are you dealing in misinformation here? These are established facts, I don't deny the chances of this are extremely remote but we are talking about varying degrees of remoteness. The data clearly backs up that Covid is of minimal threat to fit and healthy u40s with no underlying medical conditions. If you want to have an argument over remoteness or probabilities you can't just completely dismiss one side of the story because it undermines your illogical position.
The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.
I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:51:58 PM
The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.
I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.
I think it's relevant that you give context.
I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.
I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.
You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 09:03:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:51:58 PM
The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.
I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.
I think it's relevant that you give context.
I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.
I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.
You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.
What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 09:04:56 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 09:03:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:51:58 PM
The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.
I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.
I think it's relevant that you give context.
I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.
I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.
You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.
What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?
Extremely remote I'd imagine. More remote than from Covid I'd say. I've no issue acknowledging that.
But not getting a vaccine doesn't mean you will get Covid, not getting the vaccine doesn't mean you don't already have immunity from it, it doesn't mean the immunity you get from the vaccine is better than what you have already have. So many variables, so many unknown.
It's one shade of remoteness vs another shade of remoteness. I've given the vaccine a lot of thought, for someone in my position I just don't see any real upside to it, the benefit is utterly negligible in my view. I've looked at it pragmatically and logically so I respect people who have came to their conclusions by doing the same as me if it led to a different outcome. If you're happy to get the vaccine, it's your choice and I'm not going to tell you did right or wrong. I just wish there was a respect and some people didn't deal in false narratives and propaganda.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 08:50:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 10, 2021, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
You don't do irony, do you? Just about average scientist on the planet has tested the premise that the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccine and recommend we all take it, yet along comes you to tell us that you know better.
Nope. You don't do irony.
Science is conflicted on a lot of things, including Covid, including vaccines.
You seem to be selectively ignoring deaths associated with the vaccine, serious side effects associated with the vaccines, medical authorities in certain countries halting certain vaccines, suspending certain vaccines for use with particular age categories due to side effects associated with them that caused death and serious illness.
Now, why are you dealing in misinformation here? These are established facts, I don't deny the chances of this are extremely remote but we are talking about varying degrees of remoteness. The data clearly backs up that Covid is of minimal threat to fit and healthy u40s with no underlying medical conditions. If you want to have an argument over remoteness or probabilities you can't just completely dismiss one side of the story because it undermines your illogical position.
The data also clearly shows that those who don't get the vaccine are up to two thirds more likely to transmit covid to someone else. That someone else might not be so lucky to be in the "sure as long as I'm OK" age bracket. To put it another way, of those who do get covid and get seriously ill or die, they are overwhelmingly more likely to have caught it from an unvaccinated person. Like you.
Yet AGAIN though, you don't seem to want to talk about transmission rates. Must be that guilty conscience.
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 09:04:56 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 09:03:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:51:58 PM
The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.
I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.
I think it's relevant that you give context.
I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.
I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.
You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.
What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?
Extremely remote I'd imagine. More remote than from Covid I'd say. I've no issue acknowledging that.
But not getting a vaccine doesn't mean you will get Covid, not getting the vaccine doesn't mean you don't already have immunity from it, it doesn't mean the immunity you get from the vaccine is better than what you have already have. So many variables, so many unknown.
It's one shade of remoteness vs another shade of remoteness. I've given the vaccine a lot of thought, for someone in my position I just don't see any real upside to it, the benefit is utterly negligible in my view. I've looked at it pragmatically and logically so I respect people who have came to their conclusions by doing the same as me if it led to a different outcome. If you're happy to get the vaccine, it's your choice and I'm not going to tell you did right or wrong. I just wish there was a respect and some people didn't deal in false narratives and propaganda.
I know you think this. As I said before I think you over estimate your intelligence. I'm not going to force you to take the vaccine.
Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 10:39:59 PM
Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.
Is the vaccinated rate as high as that? I didn't think so.
91% over 18 double vaccinated
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 10, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 10, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.
So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?
See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.
Some figures.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/
67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.
You do realise 67% is exectively 2:1 unvaccinated to vaccinated not 18:1?
Yes?
So now do you see how ridiculous the assertion that you are 18x more likely to end up in hospital if you're unvaccinated is?
;D ;D ;D
This is definitely Angelo. Always had bother with the old sums that lad.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 10:39:59 PM
Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.
Whereas you'd believe that fully, I'd question that. It doesn't add up when you look at death statistics in the north.
People under 40 are not dying in any number up north and they are highest proportion of unvaccinated by a huge percentage. They are the highest proportion of positive cases. They account for over 50% of cases in the past 6/7 weeks yet only account for 0.8% of deaths.
u40s - over 50% of cases, only 0.8% of deaths
over 40s - under 50% of cases 99.2% of deaths
u40s - the least vaccinated cohort
over 40s - the highest vaccinated cohort
Yet we are meant to believe that 67% of people in ICU are unvaccinated? Seems incredible. Do we have a huge amount of unvaccinated over 80s or something?
So how does it stack up that the highest vaccinated groupings are still the ones getting severely ill and dying from Covid, while the unvaccinated are not. That's why these claims simply crumble when scrutinised. Here's a snapshot for you.
This is from the 27th August:
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/5/85b9e2bdf32b47aa92caa8f12f1d26a1a17e99a4.png)
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/7/d/7d8652ea61d52452ff621d45abc965752e887dfd.png)
So at the 27th August we had 111k~ positive cases in the u40 category. 11 deaths in the u40 category.
Up until yesterday
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/2/e/2e06a19aba2de82b119046103923025f11a61c96.png)
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/7/073990f4b8ef75c8efc78587b03891ac55fd513e.png)
On 10th Oct we have 146k~ positive cases in the u40 category, 13 deaths. No further deaths in the 0-19 category in 22k further positive cases. 2 deaths in the 20-39 category in 13k additional cases.
On the other hand we have 25 additional deaths in the 40-59 grouping in 13k~ additional cases and additional 222 deaths of people over the age of 60 in under 13k~ additional cases. It's clear the people getting ill and dying from Covid are those who are elderly or in bad health - to spin it as a vaccination issue does not stand up to the data. So if you're coming on here regurgitating lines you heard that fail any sort of probing of the data, then it merely serves to make you look extremely naive.
The cohort with the highest vaccination rates and least positive cases over 60s saw around 10k cases and over 200 deaths. The cohort with the smallest vaccination rate saw 24k cases and 2 deaths. And you're telling us you're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you're unvaccinated? Incredible. You're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you are elderly, have an underlying health condition or are in poor health. These are the people who need to get vaccinated and these are the people who need to take the necessary precautions and those who interact with them need to do so.
What's more selfish?
A vaccinated healthcare worker heading over to England at the weekened to go out on a weekend in Liverpool in packed pubs or an unvaccinated healthcare worker who limits her social contacts? Who poses the greatest threat to contraction and transmission of the virus?
Some of you chaps seem utterly incapable of analysing what you are being told and what you are regurgitating.
will joe be talking about the disgraceful scenes in wicklow at the weekend
Quote from: Tres Bien on October 11, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2021, 10:39:59 PM
Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.
Whereas you'd believe that fully, I'd question that. It doesn't add up when you look at death statistics in the north.
People under 40 are not dying in any number up north and they are highest proportion of unvaccinated by a huge percentage. They are the highest proportion of positive cases. They account for over 50% of cases in the past 6/7 weeks yet only account for 0.8% of deaths.
u40s - over 50% of cases, only 0.8% of deaths
over 40s - under 50% of cases 99.2% of deaths
u40s - the least vaccinated cohort
over 40s - the highest vaccinated cohort
Yet we are meant to believe that 67% of people in ICU are unvaccinated? Seems incredible. Do we have a huge amount of unvaccinated over 80s or something?
So how does it stack up that the highest vaccinated groupings are still the ones getting severely ill and dying from Covid, while the unvaccinated are not. That's why these claims simply crumble when scrutinised. Here's a snapshot for you.
This is from the 27th August:
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/5/85b9e2bdf32b47aa92caa8f12f1d26a1a17e99a4.png)
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/7/d/7d8652ea61d52452ff621d45abc965752e887dfd.png)
So at the 27th August we had 111k~ positive cases in the u40 category. 11 deaths in the u40 category.
Up until yesterday
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/2/e/2e06a19aba2de82b119046103923025f11a61c96.png)
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/7/073990f4b8ef75c8efc78587b03891ac55fd513e.png)
On 10th Oct we have 146k~ positive cases in the u40 category, 13 deaths. No further deaths in the 0-19 category in 22k further positive cases. 2 deaths in the 20-39 category in 13k additional cases.
On the other hand we have 25 additional deaths in the 40-59 grouping in 13k~ additional cases and additional 222 deaths of people over the age of 60 in under 13k~ additional cases. It's clear the people getting ill and dying from Covid are those who are elderly or in bad health - to spin it as a vaccination issue does not stand up to the data. So if you're coming on here regurgitating lines you heard that fail any sort of probing of the data, then it merely serves to make you look extremely naive.
The cohort with the highest vaccination rates and least positive cases over 60s saw around 10k cases and over 200 deaths. The cohort with the smallest vaccination rate saw 24k cases and 2 deaths. And you're telling us you're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you're unvaccinated? Incredible. You're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you are elderly, have an underlying health condition or are in poor health. These are the people who need to get vaccinated and these are the people who need to take the necessary precautions and those who interact with them need to do so.
What's more selfish?
A vaccinated healthcare worker heading over to England at the weekened to go out on a weekend in Liverpool in packed pubs or an unvaccinated healthcare worker who limits her social contacts? Who poses the greatest threat to contraction and transmission of the virus?
Some of you chaps seem utterly incapable of analysing what you are being told and what you are regurgitating.
Being in ICU does not mean you die. Why are you flip flopping from numbers in ICU who are impacting health service capabilities to Covid deaths? Your trying to muddy the water enough. The vaccinated % of the icu patients are there, if you've hard proof this is incorrect, I'll listen. If you want to argue for the sake of it that that figure is wrong. Knock yourself out as I can't be bothered. But it only adds to my opinion that you have an over inflated opinion of your own intelligence.
I think an argument based on the idea that more old people die than young people is not telling us anything we don't know.
The issue is that whatever age you are, you are more likely to be hospitalised, go into ICU, or die, if you are not vaccinated. The health services are under pressure in early October, not normally a peak for them and they would be much less under pressure if everyone acted responsibly and got vaccinated.
Unfortunately there are always ignorant morons........
(https://scontent.fdub5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/263331454_996907904253941_4200488165854789718_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eNq3NsgTC6UAX8XusAh&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&oh=cc6fe21d0f7e565b48fe2309cee191ed&oe=61B0530E)
I see Fair City episodes are going to be reduced. Wonder could they do the same to Joe Duffy's Liveline? It has to be coming down the line for him. €351,000 to be saved.