Brexit.

[yellowcard]

May is fooked. There's one man that needs serious respect out of all this...Boris Johnson...took about leading the army up the mountain then deserting them. Good enough for the brits, and good enough for all the DUP turkeys who voted for Christmas. I just hope now Varadkar has the cajones to hold on and not give an inch because Arlene the man is essentially calling him a non-entity in the the whole process...the only woman who can call you out like that is your mother.

Not to mention the irony of wee Sammy Wilson labelling all Irish politicians as a bunch of chancers!! It should have been a great day for the northern economy since the deal on offer had the potential to attract serious inward investment to the north but the DUP are so entrenched that they went against the wishes of the majority of people.

[Ronnie]

That's very true. The DUP think that good economics is seeing how far you can stretch out your arm.  Where's NI's self-help in this decision?  Can't see Conservatives putting up with this much longer.

[Milltown Row2]

Brexit is like this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCthi3pFEQ

[seafoid]

Brexit is like this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCthi3pFEQ

Or this

https://youtu.be/Zat9CRfUr-E

[Milltown Row2]

Peter Hain talking sense, common sense approach, leave but stay in the single market and customs union for everyone! Ireland wins,  jobs are safer business will stay..He thinks that's the way it will go

[imtommygunn]

Common sense hasn't been very apparent thus far but hope you are right!

The whole thing is a farce.

[GJL]

Peter Hain talking sense, common sense approach, leave but stay in the single market and customs union for everyone! Ireland wins,  jobs are safer business will stay..He thinks that's the way it will go

Sounds great but UK would not really be leaving much then. I can't see the back bencher euro sceptics going for that option. I think what was on the table today is what will actually happen.

[Eamonnca1]

Is it just me or is Theresa May in over her head?

Why would you announce a deal before running it by the people propping up your government? I could understand her not knowing the DUP would be opposed to it since she's English and by default hasn't a clue about Ireland, but, Christ...

[OgraAnDun]

Peter Hain talking sense, common sense approach, leave but stay in the single market and customs union for everyone! Ireland wins,  jobs are safer business will stay..He thinks that's the way it will go

Sounds great but UK would not really be leaving much then. I can't see the back bencher euro sceptics going for that option. I think what was on the table today is what will actually happen.

Can't see the Brits going for that option, to stay in the sigle market there would need to be free movement of labour - and one of the reasons many people voted to leave was their belief that unfettered immigration was a bad thing.

[Eamonnca1]

Would there be anything to be said for another Brexit referendum, Ted?

[seafoid]

The Brits are all over the place. There is zero leadership.

Guardian

The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the deal had been "sunk" by the DUP, which reacted angrily to reports of concessions on the Irish border issue and whose support May is relying on in parliament.Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, announced he was "disappointed and surprised" that the draft text agreed by Dublin was not signed off by the UK and EU today. He said May agreed a deal she could not subsequently deliver. at 8.04pm GMT

H ere's how key members of the remain and leave camps reacted to the deal falling through today.

Former Ukip leader Nigel Farage called for May to "leave office now", saying that proposals for regulatory alignment in Ireland were "a bitter betrayal".

"Theresa May has got to go," said Farage. "If we want to leave the EU, she's got to leave office now."

Nigel Farage(@Nigel_Farage)

This UK Government's bitter betrayal of 17.4 million people today is a concession too far, for it will lead to endless problems in Scotland and it damages the integrity of the United Kingdom.

December 4, 2017

The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, blamed the failure to make progress on the "grubby deal" with the DUP.

He said: 

The real reason for today's failure is the grubby deal the government did with the DUP after the election ... Each passing day provides further evidence that Theresa May's government is completely ill-equipped to negotiate a successful Brexit deal for our country.

DUP MP and Brexit spokesman Sammy Wilson said regulatory alignment was "simply EU-speak for keeping Northern Ireland inside customs union and inside the single market".

He went on: 

[Treating Northern Ireland differently] will have huge implications for her whole negotiating stance and if she gives in on special demands for Northern Ireland then she will be giving in on special demands for Scotland and other parts of the United Kingdom. It's a unionist nightmare.

Remain supporter Anna Soubry, a Tory MP, said that no Conservatives wanted Northern Ireland treated differently from the rest of the UK. The "simple solution" would be for the whole of the UK to remain in the single market and customs union, she said. 

Anna Soubry MP(@Anna_Soubry)

Staying in #SingleMarket & #CustomsUnion is the best solution for everyone. It will unite our country & settle our economic future.

December 4, 2017

The executive director of the Open Britain campaign against hard Brexit, James McGrory, agreed:

There is a solution that would solve all of these problems for the government, which is to keep the whole of the UK in the single market and the customs union. That would avoid a hard border in Ireland, ensure a level playing field for businesses across our islands, and protect trade with the EU, which buys almost half of everything we export.

A spokesman for the Leave Means Leave campaign, which is backed by many senior Tory Brexiteers, said:

We welcome confirmation from the Prime Minister, at the earliest opportunity, that she will completely rule out any proposal to treat Northern Ireland differently to the rest of the United Kingdom.

Eloise Todd, of the anti-Brexit Best for Britain campaign, said it seemed clear that Arlene Foster and the DUP were calling the shots and now are running the government.

She added:

Labour and Conservative remain-minded MPs outnumber this sad little rump by more than 10 to one. It is time for these people to stand up and make themselves heard.



Fintan O'Toole, columnist the Irish Times, says Brexiters have underestimated the Irish border issue.

There may be some way to go, but today we moved much closer to a British climbdown on the question of the Irish border after Brexit. And this will turn an acrimonious debate on its head. So far, we've been talking about the implications of Brexit for Ireland. Now we have to talk about the implications of Ireland for Brexit.

It is not just that Britain's weakness in its negotiations with the European Unionhas been made even more starkly clear. On the three issues on which "sufficient progress" had to be made – people, money and Ireland – Britain seems likely to suffer a hat-trick of defeats.

Its concessions in the talks on the border issue are not yet official, and may seem more abstract and less visceral than its retreats on the divorce bill and the rights of EU citizens in the UK; but they may prove to be much more fundamental and much more problematic for the whole Brexit project. There is a sense here of the return of the repressed: the Brexiters pretended Ireland did not exist

[Milltown Row2]

Tony?

[imtommygunn]

Would there be anything to be said for another Brexit referendum, Ted?

I think dougal's negotiating powers would be up there with theresa may's.

[Don Johnson]

I agree with Foster and I dislike the woman, get the wall built, why keep a connection with a country who doesn't and never will want us? It's foolery of the highest order. You just have to look at every last discussion of a unified Ireland to see the real view of the average southerner, we are a foreign people to them.

I think there is some truth in it too, even with trivial things like celebrities, if I see Liam Neeson on tv I think "there's one of our own", I was watching a Saoirse Ronan interview the other day and couldn't relate to her at all.

I'm an Irish nationalist but when the southerners don't want a unified Ireland why keep pushing for it? It's them who are traitors not me.

Bore off, you are the worst WUM on here in ages. Have you never heard of subtlety?

[seafoid]

I agree with Foster and I dislike the woman, get the wall built, why keep a connection with a country who doesn't and never will want us? It's foolery of the highest order. You just have to look at every last discussion of a unified Ireland to see the real view of the average southerner, we are a foreign people to them.

I think there is some truth in it too, even with trivial things like celebrities, if I see Liam Neeson on tv I think "there's one of our own", I was watching a Saoirse Ronan interview the other day and couldn't relate to her at all.

I'm an Irish nationalist but when the southerners don't want a unified Ireland why keep pushing for it? It's them who are traitors not me.

Bore off, you are the worst WUM on here in ages. Have you never heard of subtlety?

and this is the worst place for true discussion, any viewpoint that differs from the norm is viewed as trolling

Why don't you leave if you don't like it?