A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[BennyCake]

Strangely all this talk of hockey cricket etc, at the formation of the gaa, I believe it was Cusack who wanted cricket to be part of the newly formed organisation.

Very strange considering the aim was to promote Irish sports.

[smelmoth]

Strangely all this talk of hockey cricket etc, at the formation of the gaa, I believe it was Cusack who wanted cricket to be part of the newly formed organisation.

Very strange considering the aim was to promote Irish sports.

The whole thing was based on cricket. Play for the parish team against other parishes within the English county system and the best represent their counties in inter county competition. And we have been wedded to the English county system ever since?

[smelmoth]

Integrated system only way to go.

Think of 2 kids running around side by side. Neither family are church attendees and haven't been for 2 generations. At the age of 4 they get different uniforms and educated in different properties based upon the religious views of their grandparents. Total madness.

I would make integrated education the only publicly funded education system. If you want a segregated education start shaking a bucket and raise the funds. That's the way I would have it

[seafoid]

Sport has always been political for Unionism given how it defines itself as not Irish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Football_Association

Shortly after the partition of Ireland, in 1921, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) was established as a rival association to regulate the game in what was to become the Irish Free State. The immediate cause of the split lay in a bitter dispute over the venue for the replay of an Irish Cup match in 1921 involving Glentoran of Belfast and Shelbourne of Dublin. When the first cup match was drawn in Belfast, because of the Irish war of independence, the IFA reneged on a promise to play the replay in Dublin and scheduled the rematch again for Belfast. Shelbourne refused to comply and forfeited the Cup.[2] Such was the anger over the issue that the Leinster Football Association broke away from the IFA and formed its own national association. Those behind the FAI believed that football should be regulated by a federation based in the Irish Free State's capital, Dublin; they also accused the IFA of neglecting the development of the game in the South. The IFA's supporters argued that the federation should be based where the game was mainly played – namely Ulster, and its principal city Belfast.

[Therealdonald]

As an East Coast dweller where the protestants are still very much in the majority they're very insular and unaware that in large swathes of the six counties there is huge nationalist majorities and a thriving nationalist culture that they're totally unaware and oblivious of.

For instance I was talking to a lad from Ballywalter heavily involved in youth soccer and he couldn't understand why young fellas on his team would play hurling instead of soccer as he'd to cancel one of their games as we were taking an U12 team to an indoor blitz in Magherafelt.
I had to explain to him that these lads would by and large see their senior club hurlers play and there'd be a couple of hundred at it, a family day out almost and more at club championship games and other than what they see on TV for the premiership they don't see any other soccer games, not live anyway and even those that possibly did, there would be one man and his dog watching.
I was even telling him that we'd taken them down to Croke park to see an AI hurling semi-final and there was almost 60K at it. He hadn't a clue and I'd bet is totally representative of people from those types of areas.

Time they were educated.

A bit of a broadbrush don't you think?  Most Protestants on the East Coast have a good idea about the popularity of Gaelic Games, both in NI, as well as in Ireland on the whole.
It's interesting how you equate Gaelic Games with a thriving nationalist culture.  Perhaps that's the problem.  Sport should have f-all to do with nationalism / politics.  Until times change and politics is kept out of sport, you can do all the outreach you like, but it will probably not have much impact on East Coast dwelling Protestants taking much of an interest in Gaelic Games.
Finally, you are not necessarily insular if you choose not to take an interest in something.  As someone who is interested in many sports but was not brought up to play Gaelic Sports, I have tried on many occasions to watch Gaelic Games on TV and even attended an Ulster Gaelic Football Final, but I'm afraid it just doesn't do it for me.  Would a catholic raised in NI be classed as insular in your view if they had no real knowledge or had little or no interst in sports such as hockey and cricket?

The GAA was founded for reasons not exclusively sporting, and I for one would be disappointed if it ceased to also be a cultural organisation that promoted Gaelic culture and supported the development of an inclusive Irish identity that it was originally founded to help nurture and protect.

  Would a catholic raised in NI be classed as insular in your view if they had no real knowledge or had little or no interst in sports such as hockey and cricket?

I can't speak for johnnycool, but I don't believe so, as they are minority sports on this island. They are even minority sports within the Six Counties. I think cricket is a good game, like to see Ireland do well, watch it if it's on TV and have even tried it in the past, but it's not even in the top 5 sports in the north. If it were the most popular sport in the north, or even within the unionist community, with widespread media coverage of the local game, then yes I would consider a nationalist as insular for not having any real knowledge of cricket.

As things stand, it's hardly inclusive from an "East Coast dwelling Protestant's" perspective.  Quite the opposite in fact.  As such, you cannot really accuse Protestants of insularity if they don't buy into it.
As for your second point, where Gaelic Games are minority sports in predominantly Protestant areas, by the same argument you could also say that Protestants are not being insular by having limited interest in GAA.

I believe they're insular for not having a general knowledge of the game. Intercounty GAA has regular live TV coverage, results on BBC 6C, even articles in the Belfast Telegraph. When was the last time you saw the Waringstown cricket results called out, let alone a live match or highlights shown on TV?

The GAA was founded for reasons not exclusively sporting, and I for one would be disappointed if it ceased to also be a cultural organisation that promoted Gaelic culture and supported the development of an inclusive Irish identity that it was originally founded to help nurture and protect.

So you would concur with those loyalists kids who didn't want to play Gaelic games? I mean if it's about Gaelic culture and an Irish Identity that is no doubt difficult for some coming from a loyalist, British culture and Identity?

/Jim.

As unfortunate as it is, I can understand their dislike of the GAA when you have teams named after what they regard as terrorists. In the same way I would dislike a soccer team from the Sandy Row called Michael Stone Utd. However, the idea is that the GAA should promote an inclusive Irish identity that respects unionist ideas and traditions, while educating them on the country in which they are born, the language that gives them many place names, etc. But I believe the GAA was created to be a fundamentally Irish organisation, defending the idea of an Irish nation, and that it should remain so.

It was formed in 1884. Move on FFS.  In any case, as long as clubs continue to be named after terrorosts and what have you, it is in no way "respecting unionist ideas and traditions".

In that case are Laws that are written in 1884 to be disregarded? Should we move on? Let's be very clear on this as well. There are NO GAA clubs named after terrorists. It's this type of statement that keeps me happy with the status quo.

[smelmoth]

Donald,

If I thought it ok to give a local fella a bit of a beating around the knees and ankles and leave him in a back alley screaming in pain would I be a suitable candidate to have the local club named after me?

[michaelg]

Sport has always been political for Unionism given how it defines itself as not Irish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Football_Association

Shortly after the partition of Ireland, in 1921, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) was established as a rival association to regulate the game in what was to become the Irish Free State. The immediate cause of the split lay in a bitter dispute over the venue for the replay of an Irish Cup match in 1921 involving Glentoran of Belfast and Shelbourne of Dublin. When the first cup match was drawn in Belfast, because of the Irish war of independence, the IFA reneged on a promise to play the replay in Dublin and scheduled the rematch again for Belfast. Shelbourne refused to comply and forfeited the Cup.[2] Such was the anger over the issue that the Leinster Football Association broke away from the IFA and formed its own national association. Those behind the FAI believed that football should be regulated by a federation based in the Irish Free State's capital, Dublin; they also accused the IFA of neglecting the development of the game in the South. The IFA's supporters argued that the federation should be based where the game was mainly played – namely Ulster, and its principal city Belfast.

Except for the fact that sports played predominantly by Protestants in NI (e.g. Rugby, cricket and hockey) are organised on an all Ireland basis.  So maybe not as political as you say.

[BennyCake]

Sport has always been political for Unionism given how it defines itself as not Irish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Football_Association

Shortly after the partition of Ireland, in 1921, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) was established as a rival association to regulate the game in what was to become the Irish Free State. The immediate cause of the split lay in a bitter dispute over the venue for the replay of an Irish Cup match in 1921 involving Glentoran of Belfast and Shelbourne of Dublin. When the first cup match was drawn in Belfast, because of the Irish war of independence, the IFA reneged on a promise to play the replay in Dublin and scheduled the rematch again for Belfast. Shelbourne refused to comply and forfeited the Cup.[2] Such was the anger over the issue that the Leinster Football Association broke away from the IFA and formed its own national association. Those behind the FAI believed that football should be regulated by a federation based in the Irish Free State's capital, Dublin; they also accused the IFA of neglecting the development of the game in the South. The IFA's supporters argued that the federation should be based where the game was mainly played – namely Ulster, and its principal city Belfast.

Except for the fact that sports played predominantly by Protestants in NI (e.g. Rugby, cricket and hockey) are organised on an all Ireland basis.  So maybe not as political as you say.

Out of interest, what's the situation with flags/anthems with the Ireland cricket and hockey teams?

[armaghniac]

Sport has always been political for Unionism given how it defines itself as not Irish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Football_Association

Shortly after the partition of Ireland, in 1921, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) was established as a rival association to regulate the game in what was to become the Irish Free State. The immediate cause of the split lay in a bitter dispute over the venue for the replay of an Irish Cup match in 1921 involving Glentoran of Belfast and Shelbourne of Dublin. When the first cup match was drawn in Belfast, because of the Irish war of independence, the IFA reneged on a promise to play the replay in Dublin and scheduled the rematch again for Belfast. Shelbourne refused to comply and forfeited the Cup.[2] Such was the anger over the issue that the Leinster Football Association broke away from the IFA and formed its own national association. Those behind the FAI believed that football should be regulated by a federation based in the Irish Free State's capital, Dublin; they also accused the IFA of neglecting the development of the game in the South. The IFA's supporters argued that the federation should be based where the game was mainly played – namely Ulster, and its principal city Belfast.

Except for the fact that sports played predominantly by Protestants in NI (e.g. Rugby, cricket and hockey) are organised on an all Ireland basis.  So maybe not as political as you say.

Out of interest, what's the situation with flags/anthems in The Ireland cricket and hockey teams?

They use makey up flags rather than that representing the Irish people.

[michaelg]

Sport has always been political for Unionism given how it defines itself as not Irish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Football_Association

Shortly after the partition of Ireland, in 1921, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) was established as a rival association to regulate the game in what was to become the Irish Free State. The immediate cause of the split lay in a bitter dispute over the venue for the replay of an Irish Cup match in 1921 involving Glentoran of Belfast and Shelbourne of Dublin. When the first cup match was drawn in Belfast, because of the Irish war of independence, the IFA reneged on a promise to play the replay in Dublin and scheduled the rematch again for Belfast. Shelbourne refused to comply and forfeited the Cup.[2] Such was the anger over the issue that the Leinster Football Association broke away from the IFA and formed its own national association. Those behind the FAI believed that football should be regulated by a federation based in the Irish Free State's capital, Dublin; they also accused the IFA of neglecting the development of the game in the South. The IFA's supporters argued that the federation should be based where the game was mainly played – namely Ulster, and its principal city Belfast.

Except for the fact that sports played predominantly by Protestants in NI (e.g. Rugby, cricket and hockey) are organised on an all Ireland basis.  So maybe not as political as you say.

Out of interest, what's the situation with flags/anthems in The Ireland cricket and hockey teams?

They use makey up flags rather than that representing the Irish people.

Which represent all players and supporters involved.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

There should be some sort of outreach program by the GAA to bring them into the fold as part of a civic movement towards a United Ireland.

Reading the remainder of this thread, if contributors here are representative of Ulster GAA then I am not sure they are best placed to reach out to unonists.

/Jim.

[red hander]

There should be some sort of outreach program by the GAA to bring them into the fold as part of a civic movement towards a United Ireland.

Reading the remainder of this thread, if contributors here are representative of Ulster GAA then I am not sure they are best placed to reach out to unonists.

/Jim.

Ask yourself why that would possibly be

[macdanger2]

Strangely all this talk of hockey cricket etc, at the formation of the gaa, I believe it was Cusack who wanted cricket to be part of the newly formed organisation.

Very strange considering the aim was to promote Irish sports.

Missed out by only a couple of votes

[Applesisapples]

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2017/03/banbridge-cuchulainns-capture-ulster-gaa-cuchulainn-cup-2017/


The GAA in Ulster are already trying to reach out in cross-community events and competitions. The biggest problem is probably the naming of GAA grounds and clubs, which is (understandably, to be fair) used as a stick to beat the GAA with and off putting for large numbers of the unionist community.

But it is ok to ask people to live in Craigavon, drive over The Queens Bridge etc...

[Milltown Row2]

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2017/03/banbridge-cuchulainns-capture-ulster-gaa-cuchulainn-cup-2017/


The GAA in Ulster are already trying to reach out in cross-community events and competitions. The biggest problem is probably the naming of GAA grounds and clubs, which is (understandably, to be fair) used as a stick to beat the GAA with and off putting for large numbers of the unionist community.

But it is ok to ask people to live in Craigavon, drive over The Queens Bridge etc...

Shankill and  Donaghadee Irish names!