Westmeath v Armagh - Cusack Park, Sat 9th June (7:00pm throw in)

[smelmoth]

Westmeath people are looking forward to 'welcoming' Armagh after the last game in Cusack park

That's just silly talk and needs to be nipped in the bud.  I was at the match last year and there was no animosity between the fans at all where I sat.  Sure there was the incident in the stand but it was isolated.  There was a very large Armagh support who got frustrated with some very poor refereeing during the game.  Their backs were up immediately due to Jamie getting black carded early doors ( a decision that turned out to be correct (one of the few on the night)).  The frustration towards the ref went over the top at times but very few words were aimed at the Westmeath players or supporters.  That's why it was a surprise the Westmeath county board official had a pop at the Armagh fans later in the year.
Something tells me that there will not be the same level of passionate support on Saturday evening because of the level of apathy that's creeping in among Armagh supporters at the minute.  Both teams appear to be weaker than they were last year.

Speaking to fans from both counties during the week there seems to be a tiny but real reference to last years game and events in the stands. We have got to move on from that sort of thing. Reading on the Armagh forum in recent days I notice 2 worrying themes. Firstly there is this idea that Armagh fans should nip in and out of Mullingar without contributing a cent to the Mullingar economy. I know some of this is a poor attempt at jest but why post this shite at all?? We need to move on.

Secondly I now read of the referee being described as a "person of unmarried parents". Really?? Are we not better than that?? If we are to behave like such infants I think we would be better staying at home and listening to the radio.

I would encourage our fans to travel, to spend as their pocket dictates, to enjoy themselves, to make friends, to behave, to enjoy the spectacle and if the performance of either team or the officials comes short to let them know - but after, not before

[Throw ball]

Westmeath people are looking forward to 'welcoming' Armagh after the last game in Cusack park

That's just silly talk and needs to be nipped in the bud.  I was at the match last year and there was no animosity between the fans at all where I sat.  Sure there was the incident in the stand but it was isolated.  There was a very large Armagh support who got frustrated with some very poor refereeing during the game.  Their backs were up immediately due to Jamie getting black carded early doors ( a decision that turned out to be correct (one of the few on the night)).  The frustration towards the ref went over the top at times but very few words were aimed at the Westmeath players or supporters.  That's why it was a surprise the Westmeath county board official had a pop at the Armagh fans later in the year.
Something tells me that there will not be the same level of passionate support on Saturday evening because of the level of apathy that's creeping in among Armagh supporters at the minute.  Both teams appear to be weaker than they were last year.

Speaking to fans from both counties during the week there seems to be a tiny but real reference to last years game and events in the stands. We have got to move on from that sort of thing. Reading on the Armagh forum in recent days I notice 2 worrying themes. Firstly there is this idea that Armagh fans should nip in and out of Mullingar without contributing a cent to the Mullingar economy. I know some of this is a poor attempt at jest but why post this shite at all?? We need to move on.

Secondly I now read of the referee being described as a "person of unmarried parents". Really?? Are we not better than that?? If we are to behave like such infants I think we would be better staying at home and listening to the radio.

I would encourage our fans to travel, to spend as their pocket dictates, to enjoy themselves, to make friends, to behave, to enjoy the spectacle and if the performance of either team or the officials comes short to let them know - but after, not before

If you have been reading the Armagh forum long enough you will understand that the person mentioning the referee is a bit of a joker. You may not appreciate it but I would suggest he was trying to be funny and by phrasing it here as you have you are only stirring the pot.

[smelmoth]

I'm aware that these are attempts at humour. Poor as they are they are repeated each time. As soon as the referee is named he is derided. I simply ask that we wait until he delivers a performance worth deriding before starting this sort of shite.

[Farrandeelin]

Who was the ref?

[mackers]

Who was the ref?

The ref last year was O'Sullivan from Kerry who was very poor.  I think I read somewhere that Gough is refereeing this week's match.  He's the best in the business IMO and there should be no such issues this year.

[smelmoth]

Yeah it's Gough this time.

My point is that it doesn't matter who it is we get the same pre-match drivel each time. It feeds into this mantra that the world is against us. The referee is against us, the fates are against us and that there is some imagined edge between the 2 sides or 2 sets of supporters.

Gough as a ref is not without fault or controversy but he remains one of the best. Let him do his job and judge him afterwards. If he pulls us up for poor tackling or mouthing at his decisions it will the continuance of a theme but that theme will have nothing to do with Gough, his performance, his parentage or an agenda against Armagh

[keeperlit]

Yeah it's Gough this time.

My point is that it doesn't matter who it is we get the same pre-match drivel each time. It feeds into this mantra that the world is against us. The referee is against us, the fates are against us and that there is some imagined edge between the 2 sides or 2 sets of supporters.

Gough as a ref is not without fault or controversy but he remains one of the best. Let him do his job and judge him afterwards. If he pulls us up for poor tackling or mouthing at his decisions it will the continuance of a theme but that theme will have nothing to do with Gough, his performance, his parentage or an agenda against Armagh

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[mackers]

Yeah it's Gough this time.

My point is that it doesn't matter who it is we get the same pre-match drivel each time. It feeds into this mantra that the world is against us. The referee is against us, the fates are against us and that there is some imagined edge between the 2 sides or 2 sets of supporters.

I wouldn't be reading too much into what a couple of eejits on the Armagh forum say.  Some of them have in house jokes about the standard of soup at the Athletic Grounds and the away venues that Armagh visit FFS.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Yeah it's Gough this time.

My point is that it doesn't matter who it is we get the same pre-match drivel each time. It feeds into this mantra that the world is against us. The referee is against us, the fates are against us and that there is some imagined edge between the 2 sides or 2 sets of supporters.

Gough as a ref is not without fault or controversy but he remains one of the best. Let him do his job and judge him afterwards. If he pulls us up for poor tackling or mouthing at his decisions it will the continuance of a theme but that theme will have nothing to do with Gough, his performance, his parentage or an agenda against Armagh

To reiterate what others have said, the humour over on the forum - although not my cup of tae - for the most part is relatively harmless and not to be taken too seriously.

The only possible explanation that I can think of for you giving it so much weight is that you think the humour might in some way be made as an excuse to avoid pinning the blame on Geezer if things go pear shaped. A closer look at the discussion since the Fermanagh debacle will show that the criticism of Geezer will be unrelenting, regardless of how the ref does or how the opposing supporters get on. 

[smelmoth]

Yeah it's Gough this time.

My point is that it doesn't matter who it is we get the same pre-match drivel each time. It feeds into this mantra that the world is against us. The referee is against us, the fates are against us and that there is some imagined edge between the 2 sides or 2 sets of supporters.

Gough as a ref is not without fault or controversy but he remains one of the best. Let him do his job and judge him afterwards. If he pulls us up for poor tackling or mouthing at his decisions it will the continuance of a theme but that theme will have nothing to do with Gough, his performance, his parentage or an agenda against Armagh

To reiterate what others have said, the humour over on the forum - although not my cup of tae - for the most part is relatively harmless and not to be taken too seriously.

The only possible explanation that I can think of for you giving it so much weight is that you think the humour might in some way be made as an excuse to avoid pinning the blame on Geezer if things go pear shaped. A closer look at the discussion since the Fermanagh debacle will show that the criticism of Geezer will be unrelenting, regardless of how the ref does or how the opposing supporters get on.

What do you mean by a closer look.

I'd be very certain that the criticism of Geezer will be intense. I draw no connection between that and the drivel that is posted on the forum. But don't let that stop you.

I'm only too aware that use of deflection arguments can be diversionary themselves. As I travelled to the Tyrone vs Monaghan match I listened to the pre match thoughts of Enda McGinley. He then gave a caustic but accurate review of our performance vs Fermanagh. In his paper column he then repeated his views. On the Armaghforum his views are discounted as a deflection away from Tyrone's own defeat. Given he originally gave these views before Tyrone's defeat I would attach little weight to that line of thought. On the Armagh forum we dismiss external criticism instead of thinking about what there might be to learn.

It's not the dumb jokes that are annoying but the absence of any proper debate

[illdecide]

So if we're debating K McG's reign then how do you start?

Have we made progress over the last 4 years? No
Are the best players in Armagh playing for the County? No - Why not?
Are we under achieving? Yes
Are we being too unrealistic? No
Would another manager do a better job with the same players? Who knows?
Does K McG get a rough ride? Probably
Is K McG under pressure? Yes
If we win 2-3 matches in the qualifiers will the fans think everything is ok? Majority probably will
Is there a divide between Crossmaglen and K McG? Looks like it


Fire away with any other question you want to debate.

[our_fella]

If Geezer was removed / walks,, who we think would step up next?  One of the Macs? Oisin?

[Rufus T Firefly]

the drivel that is posted on the forum.

On the Armaghforum.....views are discounted as a deflection away from Tyrone's own defeat.

On the Armagh forum we dismiss external criticism instead of thinking about what there might be to learn.

It's not the dumb jokes that are annoying but the absence of any proper debate

The Armagh Forum is as it has always been - I see little difference between what goes on now and what happened when we were with Armaghgaa.net. I can't believe that you choose to dismiss what is being discussed there on the one hand - drivel and lack of proper debate - and then on the other flag it as a serious issue for consideration ahead of the game.

Make up your mind. 

[smelmoth]

If Geezer was removed / walks,, who we think would step up next?  One of the Macs? Oisin?

Who knows but please let it be based upon their managerial/coaching record

[smelmoth]

the drivel that is posted on the forum.

On the Armaghforum.....views are discounted as a deflection away from Tyrone's own defeat.

On the Armagh forum we dismiss external criticism instead of thinking about what there might be to learn.

It's not the dumb jokes that are annoying but the absence of any proper debate

The Armagh Forum is as it has always been - I see little difference between what goes on now and what happened when we were with Armaghgaa.net. I can't believe that you choose to dismiss what is being discussed there on the one hand - drivel and lack of proper debate - and then on the other flag it as a serious issue for consideration ahead of the game.

Make up your mind.

Again I haven't mentioned or alluded to any difference in the current and previous armagh fan's forum. Don't let that stop you imagining what it is I'm thinking and reacting to your own imagination. Your reasons are your own I suppose.

I point out that there is a lot of drivel on there. If you disagree with that just say and I will post the examples that back my case.

Separately I point out that some of the content focusses on imagined slights, campaigns, wars, prejudices, vendettas, persecutions etc. Again disagree if you will.

I contend that focussing on these imagined issues can be unhelpful. Disagree if you will?

I have made up my mind on what I've seen. Post something different and I might change my mind. That is how these things work I guess?

Or you could imagine my thoughts and post them?