Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's

[Orchard park]

Good post trilleacman

[DuffleKing]

Is the problem with Tom Ryan here not that his appearance came in response to a confidential call to a line specifically set up to deal with reported grievances. Senior or not, the director of finance is not the appropriate person for this to be escalated to.

[Jinxy]

This is Kimmage's writing style so it's a mixture of tangible, factual information and anecdotal accounts which support the narrative, but are significantly less tangible.
I think his style works well for one-to-one interviews, but for stuff like this I feel he writes three thousand words where one thousand words would be more than sufficient to tell the story.

[johnnycool]

On the local level I can see how a committee can get a bit pissed off with a Coach who just does their own thing, training when they shouldn't be and so forth. You can try and reel them in and if that doesn't work then you can get shot. That bit I can understand, but the Chairman was totally bang out of order for the comments he used in an open forum about an untrue event "Two years ago he inappropriately laid his hands on a child."

Now I'd be pretty pissed off if that statement was made about me and I can see why "the driver" pursued that incident all the way through the courts.

Hound has probably clarified the issue around the source of the money and that on second viewing looks like a fair enough transaction and TBH I was totally unaware of Insurance being used to cover defamation cliams against club officers.

So first part, the O'Dwyers chairman was a complete bollox and should really be removed from his position, how that is done is another story and secondly Nationally and County level it seems as if the GAA has made enquiries albeit the parents should have had a voice, but I assume the enquiries where based on specific incidents. Not sure how much more could have been done.

[trailer]

As an underage coach I have to admit this puts me right off. Who wants to end up in a national newspaper over the head of some grievance from a parent / another volunteer. f**k that.
Kimmage is making more out of this than there is, but's it now clear you have to be ultra, ultra cautious as a coach.

[Dinny Breen]

I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

[straightred]

What I don't like about this article, much as I didn't like about his previous one, is that he would like to convince the reader that this is a GAA issue, when my belief is that this is the sort of personality clash which haunts every voluntary organisation from time-to-time.

He has run this story over the dozens, maybe hundreds, of similar petty disputes that he has compiled, because he managed to find a link to top brass. Which only exists because the GAA has a grievance procedure that actually lead all the way there.

The one thing though that strikes/worries me here is that the lack of opportunity for children to transfer from a club they're disaffected with, is probably the biggest factor in a clash of heads going from a sneaky headbutt to a year long vendetta.

If as an association we want to prevent these circumstances arising, then we need a more expedient way to close it out i.e. should a patent be willing to pay a set fee, which would be set as a deterrent for trivial issues, but not a roadblock for major ones, their case for transfer can be held and judged by an independent central officer, who has the power of immediate decision. Maybe €500 or so.

but how do you stop it becoming the norm ?

Here in Dublin my kids play lots of sports. Annual player transfer is soccer is rampant with kids moving around as they please. You end up with no continuity from year to year and worse, no loyalty.

With the GAA you have year on year rivalries. They start at u12 and they all grow up together. I know my boys look forward to games against particular clubs because the might have lost a close one last year and they are raring to get another go against them. With soccer you could be facing a new team the next year.

If it could be regulated and restricted to genuine and legitimate reasons then i'd be in favour but it can't be because little Johnny is having a hissy fit

[johnnycool]

I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

There's a bit of that alright but I've had his debate with a few parents about why their wee Jonny isn't getting as much game time as wee Jimmy when as much as they might be the same age wee Jimmy is the far superior player.

Now this isn't about winning it's about rewarding the wee Jimmys who put in the extra effort to get themselves to that level. That has to be recognised to encourage more wee Jimmys.
If wee Jonny is lacking then work with him more from a coaching perspective and speak with the parents in what is needed to get their wee Jonny up the levels, but by and large wee Jonny's parents don't put in the hard yards like wee Jimmys', don't go to away games, will miss training regularly and so forth, hence why wee Jonny may struggle.

I think the GAA is about right with the go games concept to U12 but that does seem to be slipping in certain units.

After that the more I think of it the "everyone gets a medal" matra is detrimental to youngsters as they're becoming entitled little shits and that is encouraged by modern parenting where rather than support wee Jonny in getting him to improve we lay the blame at someone else's door.
IMO 13 and 14 year olds are old enough to understand that hard work and doing that bit extra should be rewarded. If it isn't then why do it.
This is the same for exams and life in general, not just sport.

[Captain Scarlet]

Late to this. I understand club officials should be protected and there should be insurance when they are doing their duties.
However, in this case the Chair used and abused his position to defame someone who he obviously had a personal issue with.
The defamation case was clearly enough to warrant the payment and in turn would show the Chair should have been removed from position and the GAA should not intervene in cases of defamation.

[magpie seanie]

I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

It's a good question. Totally understand what you're saying but I think 16 is too late. In life you win and lose. Those kids will be taking exams and tests every week of the year academically or in speech and drama, music, karate, dancing etc etc. Kids need to get used to the fact that there isn't a medal for everyone in life. I think Go-Games up to U10 is right and proper but after that there needs to be some reality. I'd advise coached to err on the side of picking older players rather than more talented younger players (who have their own team as well) because we need to try and keep as many involved and enjoying things as possible (never mind the late developers point).

The problem is as you rightly highlight parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children.....usually completely clueless about what is going on in front of them. It's even worse if one of these people actually ends up coaching a team which invariably happens as I'd say in 85% of clubs you're just happy to get someone to take the team.

[thewobbler]

I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

Because winning is fun. And it builds memories.

Losing teaches you how to win.

Me and my mates played football in the playground every day of my young life. That was fun too. But I don't remember any single match. It all blurs into one.

But I can remember dozens of matches from primary school, under 10, 12 and 14 level. Where I played, how I played, who won, and roughly the final score.


Would I swap that for a bundle more of blurry memories? Not a chance. Not a chance.

My 7 year old kicks points every evening with his cousin. They always keep score. Will they remember that when they're 41? No chance. But every evening they've a start point to drive each other to get better. That's why they're both improving rapidly in the basics of the game.

Competition is a good thing.

[From the Bunker]

The problem with the winning mentality is where do you start. And like the facts of life you have to trickle it into the childs psyche. Like School you can't sit on your hands and expect your child to thrive on their own. Encouragement, guidance and help is often needed. I know a Parent who just can't get over how much my lad has improved at Soccer, Gaelic and Hurling the last couple of years. The reason is - I'd spend a fun hour every now and again in the back garden. He has a good hand pass from me going through it with him. He has a good Soccer throw from me going through it with him. It only takes 10 minutes in the middle of a fun game! This is not living my dream through my child. It is making him/her competent in the skills of sport. Just like one would spend time at Homework to improve a child at reading or at worst keep up with the main pack. I realise his/her limitations and most of them are the same as mine (apple does not fall far from the tree). Anyway. you have to push your child, be it at Music, sport, school or just life. But you have to have real aspirations for what is the best they can achieve.

[magpie seanie]

The problem with the winning mentality is where do you start. And like the facts of life you have to trickle it into the childs psyche. Like School you can't sit on your hands and expect your child to thrive on their own. Encouragement, guidance and help is often needed. I know a Parent who just can't get over how much my lad has improved at Soccer, Gaelic and Hurling the last couple of years. The reason is - I'd spend a fun hour every now and again in the back garden. He has a good hand pass from me going through it with him. He has a good Soccer throw from me going through it with him. It only takes 10 minutes in the middle of a fun game! This is not living my dream through my child. It is making him/her competent in the skills of sport. Just like one would spend time at Homework to improve a child at reading or at worst keep up with the main pack. I realise his/her limitations and most of them are the same as mine (apple does not fall far from the tree). Anyway. you have to push your child, be it at Music, sport, school or just life. But you have to have real aspirations for what is the best they can achieve.

Help them to be the best version of themselves that they can be. That's what I think a parent or coach should aim for. And with most things in life it takes hard work to improve or be good at something. Having a competitive edge feeds the hunger to work.

Dinny's point is a good one though - many parents are trying to live out their broken dreams through their kids. I saw it myself with some of my team mates (one guy in particular) when I was a kid so I swore I'd never do it myself with mine.

[Jinxy]

It's as if adults have forgotten what it is like to be a kid.
Throw a ball to a gang of 10 year olds and walk away from them.
Will they:
a) Happily pass the ball around in a circle ensuring equal time for everyone?
or,
b) Pick teams and try to beat each other?
There is a difference between healthy competition and unhealthy competition.
Unhealthy competition usually occurs only when the parents get involved.

[6th sam]

I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

Because winning is fun. And it builds memories.

Losing teaches you how to win.

Me and my mates played football in the playground every day of my young life. That was fun too. But I don't remember any single match. It all blurs into one.

But I can remember dozens of matches from primary school, under 10, 12 and 14 level. Where I played, how I played, who won, and roughly the final score.


Would I swap that for a bundle more of blurry memories? Not a chance. Not a chance.

My 7 year old kicks points every evening with his cousin. They always keep score. Will they remember that when they're 41? No chance. But every evening they've a start point to drive each other to get better. That's why they're both improving rapidly in the basics of the game.

Competition is a good thing.

Great post.
Fun is important particularly at younger age groups, but Healthy competition can equip children for the real world where toughness and resilience are essential attributes to develop as a person never mind an athlete.

In my experience, Regarding fun and enjoyment, some people  seem to ignore the fact that many sports oriented youngsters , as they get older , have fun and enjoy competition  and challenging themselves . We should be careful not to neglect those with this mentality , who are more likely to persist with competitive sport into adulthood, in favour of children with less interest who are less likely  to persist with competitive sport into adulthood.

I think the goal should be to emphasise fun and enjoyment for all to retain
numbers but also try to provide a competitive challenge for those that need it. I think go-games works well in trying to provide that