Author Topic: Connacht Senior Championship 2018  (Read 18581 times)

Syferus

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #315 on: June 13, 2018, 03:14:35 PM »
Maybe the Galway team that were 'unhammered' by Roscommon 2 years ago will show? Galway (KW) tend to be a horse-for-courses team, cutting their cloth according to needs. There was too much at stake v Mayo to allow the game to be open and free-scoring. When they had the extra man, they brought on another forward in place of a defender. Both sides played with most men back that day remember? Ditto the league final, I think Walsh largely wanted a trial run to see how the system ran against Dublin in a big game in CP. That they didn't win ultimately came down to Walsh's conservatism.

To repeat myself, Galway have improved defensively this year, not really because of Paddy Tally, but because they now have 2 ballsy defenders, Sean Andy and Kerin in the FB line, and they have dropped GOD from the HB line.

Which Roscommon team will show up Syf.? The one that hammered Galway last year or the supine one that surrendered to Mayo in the August replay?

Given we don't have to play the second best team in Ireland for the second time in six days on Sunday with a thread-bare panel, I'm pretty confident which Roscommon team will turn up for the Connacht final.. under McStay this team have rarely been found wanting if given preparation time.

Rossfan

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #316 on: June 13, 2018, 03:16:21 PM »
We won't have much preparation time if we make the last 8 ;)
Maybe Syfīn you could just keep quiet for a few days :-X
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

galwayman

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #317 on: June 13, 2018, 03:18:01 PM »
Sean Andy has certainly improved the stability of the fb line. Eoin Kerin has come on leaps and bounds as a corner back also.
Declan Kyne is there to be got at though which would be a worry. Adrian Marren won a huge amount of ball and kicked 3 from play the last day. I imagine Silke will be moved to the corner next year in his place.
It's a tough game to call.

An Fhairche Abu

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #318 on: June 13, 2018, 03:26:49 PM »
July football is when Galway will be judged on not Sunday. They have reached a few All Ireland quarter finals in recent years and have gone no further they now need to be reaching All Ireland semi final this summer and then without question they have backed up a good league with a good championship.

I'm not sold that Galway need to be reaching the all Ireland semi final to have had a good championship. Galway making the last four, given the potential challengers that could comprise the 3 other teams in the round robin, would be an over achievement in my opinion.

They have not performed at all in either of the past two Quarter finals that they made, in fact Galway have been flat, poor in multiple lines of the team and easily beaten.
Given that Division One status was retained in the Spring, the remaining objectives this year are to (a) reach the Super 8s (preferably by winning Connacht next Sunday en route) and (b) perform well in the 3 round robin matches.
If Galway play well and that gets them to a semi final, fantastic. If they don't make it but have performed credibly in the Super 8s then I would consider that a good championship.

If they don't make the Super 8s or perform as badly in it as previous Q-final performances, or suffer from burn out during July as you've speculated, then the championship year will have been a failure overall.

I wouldn't, to be fair. Bar Dublin and perhaps (new, untested) Kerry, I think all other teams are of a muchness. Mayo are in general good enough to be semi-finalists, subject to prior rounds not taking too much out of them. Galway, by dent of their league displays, should be aiming minimally towards a last-4 at this stage. They are still on the improvement curve and personally I think some of their defenders will be badly exposed before the summer is over, but at this point it's hard to argue that there are at least 4 betters teams than them remaining.

Sunday could be about which KW shows up; the conservative one v Mayo, or the one who threw off the shackles v Sligo and produced a scoring blitz. Or as he says himself, Plan A B & C.

I don't disagree that in general there are a lot of teams that are much of a muchness but we haven't played at all when reaching the last eight during the past 15 years.
I'd settle for good performances at that stage before worrying about making the semi final, but again that's just my personal opinion. I have a huge worry over the HB line against better opposition this year to be honest, I hope I'm proved wrong.

Manning18

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #319 on: June 13, 2018, 06:02:55 PM »
July football is when Galway will be judged on not Sunday. They have reached a few All Ireland quarter finals in recent years and have gone no further they now need to be reaching All Ireland semi final this summer and then without question they have backed up a good league with a good championship.

I'm not sold that Galway need to be reaching the all Ireland semi final to have had a good championship. Galway making the last four, given the potential challengers that could comprise the 3 other teams in the round robin, would be an over achievement in my opinion.

They have not performed at all in either of the past two Quarter finals that they made, in fact Galway have been flat, poor in multiple lines of the team and easily beaten.
Given that Division One status was retained in the Spring, the remaining objectives this year are to (a) reach the Super 8s (preferably by winning Connacht next Sunday en route) and (b) perform well in the 3 round robin matches.
If Galway play well and that gets them to a semi final, fantastic. If they don't make it but have performed credibly in the Super 8s then I would consider that a good championship.

If they don't make the Super 8s or perform as badly in it as previous Q-final performances, or suffer from burn out during July as you've speculated, then the championship year will have been a failure overall.

I wouldn't, to be fair. Bar Dublin and perhaps (new, untested) Kerry, I think all other teams are of a muchness. Mayo are in general good enough to be semi-finalists, subject to prior rounds not taking too much out of them. Galway, by dent of their league displays, should be aiming minimally towards a last-4 at this stage. They are still on the improvement curve and personally I think some of their defenders will be badly exposed before the summer is over, but at this point it's hard to argue that there are at least 4 betters teams than them remaining.

Sunday could be about which KW shows up; the conservative one v Mayo, or the one who threw off the shackles v Sligo and produced a scoring blitz. Or as he says himself, Plan A B & C.

Are you seriously questioning what Galway turns up? Against a team that hammered them last year? This Galway team only come out to play when the opposition is vastly inferior as Sligo clearly were. Every other game they clinge to their Ulsterball system for dear life, even in situations where they have a numerical advantage like the league final and the Mayo match.

Against a team that they annihilated two years ago going man to man? On the one actual dry normal day the two sides have played? It'll have to be on Walsh's mind that the one time these teams pushed up on each other was the day Galway were dominant. You can't have monsoon conditions playing that game however, or a straight downfield wind like the Mayo game or the drawn 2016 game where each team mimics each other. I'd imagine on a normal dry day Walsh will be willing to wager his backs will can prevent disaster just slightly better than their counterparts.

Syferus

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #320 on: June 13, 2018, 06:06:53 PM »
July football is when Galway will be judged on not Sunday. They have reached a few All Ireland quarter finals in recent years and have gone no further they now need to be reaching All Ireland semi final this summer and then without question they have backed up a good league with a good championship.

I'm not sold that Galway need to be reaching the all Ireland semi final to have had a good championship. Galway making the last four, given the potential challengers that could comprise the 3 other teams in the round robin, would be an over achievement in my opinion.

They have not performed at all in either of the past two Quarter finals that they made, in fact Galway have been flat, poor in multiple lines of the team and easily beaten.
Given that Division One status was retained in the Spring, the remaining objectives this year are to (a) reach the Super 8s (preferably by winning Connacht next Sunday en route) and (b) perform well in the 3 round robin matches.
If Galway play well and that gets them to a semi final, fantastic. If they don't make it but have performed credibly in the Super 8s then I would consider that a good championship.

If they don't make the Super 8s or perform as badly in it as previous Q-final performances, or suffer from burn out during July as you've speculated, then the championship year will have been a failure overall.

I wouldn't, to be fair. Bar Dublin and perhaps (new, untested) Kerry, I think all other teams are of a muchness. Mayo are in general good enough to be semi-finalists, subject to prior rounds not taking too much out of them. Galway, by dent of their league displays, should be aiming minimally towards a last-4 at this stage. They are still on the improvement curve and personally I think some of their defenders will be badly exposed before the summer is over, but at this point it's hard to argue that there are at least 4 betters teams than them remaining.

Sunday could be about which KW shows up; the conservative one v Mayo, or the one who threw off the shackles v Sligo and produced a scoring blitz. Or as he says himself, Plan A B & C.

Are you seriously questioning what Galway turns up? Against a team that hammered them last year? This Galway team only come out to play when the opposition is vastly inferior as Sligo clearly were. Every other game they clinge to their Ulsterball system for dear life, even in situations where they have a numerical advantage like the league final and the Mayo match.

Against a team that they annihilated two years ago going man to man? On the one actual dry normal day the two sides have played? It'll have to be on Walsh's mind that the one time these teams pushed up on each other was the day Galway were dominant. You can't have monsoon conditions playing that game however, or a straight downfield wind like the Mayo game or the drawn 2016 game where each team mimics each other. I'd imagine on a normal dry day Walsh will be willing to wager his backs will can prevent disaster just slightly better than their counterparts.

You’re clutching at straws trying to pretend Ulsterball isn’t the template for Walsh in all major games. The replay in 2016 would have been much the same had we not let the game get away from us early much the same as Sligo did.

I don’t know why people want to pretend this Galway team is something it clearly isn’t. You play tough physical, at times openly dirty, and very defensive (and defensively sound) football. That’s not necessarily a bad thing for Galway, but it is for the sport in general if they’re supposed to the new hottest thing on the market.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 06:09:00 PM by Syferus »

weareros

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #321 on: June 13, 2018, 07:32:53 PM »
Syferus, you can't deny there's been occasions on faster ground when opposing teams have been able to run through us like a dose of salts, often due to a lack of physique or pace on our part in the backs. In 2016, it was Kerry putting 3 past us in league semi, Galway 3 in Connacht replay, in 2017 it was Mayo putting 4 past us in qtr final replay, and this year Cavan putting 4 past us in the Div 2 league final. Only on one occasion were we still able to score more on the other end, versus Cavan. So I hope and trust that McStay will not assume Galway will go Ulster and hope to win this 13 points to 11. If he did, it would increase our chances of winning IMO. He may well look at our weakest link and decide to try and exploit that in early stages of game in the belief that Galway forwards can do more damage against our backs, than we can theirs. Might be an old fashioned Connacht tie.

I still back us to win. I stood on the embankment in 1990 when we last beat Galway in Hyde Park. Hard to believe 28 years later we are waiting for our first championship win at home to the Tribes. I am confident we now have the team to do this - even if the experts and bookies are not convinced.



Manning18

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #322 on: June 13, 2018, 10:07:02 PM »
Donegal and Kerry games last year Syferus? Are you noticing a trend? Dry days little wind he pushes up (wish he hadn't left us so exposed vs Kerry tbh). Days with the wind he retreats as the opposition can't score against the wind vs a blanket so he retreats and hopes to catch them on the break. Opposition usually mimics and you get these awful handpassing games. You can't maintain it Ulsterball though when every dry calm day in the last 3 seasons he's pushed up (Tipp, Ros, Donegal, Kerry, Sligo) and every poor or windy weather day has turned defensive (Mayo x3, Ros)

oliverkelly

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #323 on: June 14, 2018, 08:42:48 AM »
Donegal and Kerry games last year Syferus? Are you noticing a trend? Dry days little wind he pushes up (wish he hadn't left us so exposed vs Kerry tbh). Days with the wind he retreats as the opposition can't score against the wind vs a blanket so he retreats and hopes to catch them on the break. Opposition usually mimics and you get these awful handpassing games. You can't maintain it Ulsterball though when every dry calm day in the last 3 seasons he's pushed up (Tipp, Ros, Donegal, Kerry, Sligo) and every poor or windy weather day has turned defensive (Mayo x3, Ros)

Your telling us  Kevin Walsh waits until an hour or two before a game to see what the weather is like before deciding what way to play? What do the players do in preparation for games the weeks before a game if the tactic is going to be decided by what wind is out

Mayo4Sam14

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #324 on: June 14, 2018, 09:31:59 AM »
Donegal and Kerry games last year Syferus? Are you noticing a trend? Dry days little wind he pushes up (wish he hadn't left us so exposed vs Kerry tbh). Days with the wind he retreats as the opposition can't score against the wind vs a blanket so he retreats and hopes to catch them on the break. Opposition usually mimics and you get these awful handpassing games. You can't maintain it Ulsterball though when every dry calm day in the last 3 seasons he's pushed up (Tipp, Ros, Donegal, Kerry, Sligo) and every poor or windy weather day has turned defensive (Mayo x3, Ros)

Your telling us  Kevin Walsh waits until an hour or two before a game to see what the weather is like before deciding what way to play? What do the players do in preparation for games the weeks before a game if the tactic is going to be decided by what wind is out

And if it starts raining mid game tactics are out the window altogether
You can forget about Sean Cavanagh as far as he's a man!

Maroon Manc

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #325 on: June 14, 2018, 10:30:06 AM »
Darragh O'Se in the times yesterday

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-galway-s-defensive-system-must-serve-interests-of-their-forwards-1.3528229

There was a fella back in west Kerry years ago who was known as The Cricket. He was always talking about the crickets – by which he meant critics, although I’m not sure he knew one way or the other whether there was any difference.

“Don’t mind the crickets, Sé,” he’d say to you after you might have had a bad game and people were giving out about you. “The crickets will always have something to be going on about.”

I came up against Kevin Walsh a good few times when we were back in our playing days. He was big and awkward to get around and didn’t stand for any messing. The very last thing he will ever have on his mind is the crickets, even though there are plenty of them around these days.

Does he hear people giving out about Galway’s defensive style of play? Probably. Does he care? Not for a second. Let the crickets have their say, it means nothing to him.

People will always complain, regardless of what you do. I remember walking out of Croke Park after the 2014 All-Ireland final with Kerry just after lifting Sam Maguire. It was a poor game but sure what about it? The year was over, the All-Ireland was won and we’d lost enough epics to last a lifetime. And yet who did I meet on my way out of Croke Park? A Kerry fella who said: “We’re going nowhere with that Kerry team.”

Galway are a coming team, that’s obvious to everyone. They’re fast, they’re physical, they’re very difficult to play against. Even just those three things put together should be enough to carry you past most teams in the country and should definitely be enough to see you into the Super 8s. Whether or not Galway go any further than that depends on what use they can make of their most skilful players.

The team Walsh was a part of made the most out of their flair players. That Galway team was all about getting the ball to Pádraic Joyce, Michael Donnellan, Ja Fallon, with Declan Meehan and Seán Óg de Paor bombing on from the wings. They had bags of talent and serious pace and were beautiful to watch in full flow. The rest of the team played to serve those lads with the ball and no better man than Kevin Walsh to lead that effort.

Football has changed in the 20 years since they won their first All-Ireland but I think it still holds true that if you’re going to win an All-Ireland, you need to set up your team so that the hod-carriers are working in service of your best players. For Galway, those guys are the likes of Damien Comer, Shane Walsh, Eamon Brannigan and Seán Armstrong. I’d worry in the long run that their defensive system calls on these guys to do too much donkey work. Against the better teams, that’s going to leave them short at the other end.

More defensive
There’s no question but that Galway needed to develop a better way of defending than they had previously. They were beaten far too easily when they got to Croke Park in recent years and there’s no future in that for any decent team. If a team is poor defensively, you can’t be giving out about them addressing the problem. What’s the alternative?

I was at Kerry’s game against Clare there a couple of weeks ago and I saw Clare line up man-for-man with no sweepers, no blanket defence, no nothing really. And it was a lovely game to watch altogether, with a fast, young Kerry team happily running up a score of 0-32. But was it the right thing for Clare to do? Not from where I was sitting. They looked totally naïve to me, in that they didn’t do anything to address the problems that would be caused by Kerry’s forwards having lots of space.

So I don’t really have any major issue with Galway going more defensive. They’re getting a bit of grief for it but they had to do something. They couldn’t arrive back to Croke Park with the same defensive set-up they had last year and the year before. Kieran Donaghy had them beaten after 15 minutes in last year’s All-Ireland quarter-final. If that doesn’t make you sit down over the winter and come up with something different, you have no business being in charge.

The reason they get a bit of grief over it is the quality of the players they have going forward. Shane Walsh can be infuriating at times. He has so much ability, class and craft that you see him sometimes and you wonder why he isn’t an automatic All Star every year.

He kicked a free against Kerry in the league match this year that had to be seen to be believed. He kicked it off the ground with his left leg with a style that I haven’t seen in anyone since Maurice Fitzgerald.

But Galway’s return from Shane Walsh’s ability is just too low. They don’t get enough bang for his buck. He is electric when he’s running the ball but what use is that to Galway if he is collecting possession in his own half-back line? The knock-on effect of it is that he sometimes overcomplicates things when he does find himself in position within reach of the goal. He sometimes looks like he is trying to show what he can do – maybe because he has spent too much time doing the mundane stuff back in defence.

When I marked Seán Cavanagh in the 2005 All-Ireland final, it took me a while to work out that he had been given special licence by Mickey Harte, excusing him from chasing back into the defence
There were a couple of games in the league where even Damien Comer found himself back in the Galway defence putting in tackles and breaking up the play. You didn’t see him do that against Dublin or against Mayo so they’ve obviously told him it’s not on his to-do list. You can see him growing by the game as a result.

Comer is a prime example of what is possible for Galway. He is loving being the leader of their attack. You can see it in him – he wants the responsibility, he wants the opposition to come up with plans especially for him. One marker, two markers, a sweeper in front – bring it on, lads. Whatever ye have, bring it on.

Transfer market
You’d pay a lot in any transfer market for someone with that attitude added to that physical strength. Galway have a unique asset in Comer so it’s vital they use him properly. He scored a point against Mayo and then chased back after the kick-out, hunting down fellas for 70 yards all the way back into the defence.

I would hope that someone took him aside afterwards and said: “Fair play Damien, great effort, great honesty – now never do that again.”

He has to be excused all the tracking back and getting in defensive formation. The system has to be designed to let him do damage where it matters. If he finds himself 70 yards from goal marking a zone, then the system hasn’t worked.

Defensive systems come in two forms – one designed to contain the opposition and one designed to give you a platform to attack. When people were giving out about Tyrone’s blanket defence away back in the 2000s, they were totally missing the point. I played against those teams and there was far more to them than just getting men behind the ball.

When I marked Seán Cavanagh in the 2005 All-Ireland final, it took me a while to work out that he had been given special licence by Mickey Harte, excusing him from chasing back into the defence. Any time he went forward, I would be doing my duty and going with him stride for stride. But when the boot was on the other foot, he stayed put in midfield and waited for the ball to come to him.

Trying to play against that was a bit unsettling. You had an advantage going forward with the ball because you’d lost your man. But you also knew you had to make it count. Half the idea from their point of view was for me to think I was away in a hack. They wanted me bombing on so that when they got a turn over, Cavanagh was on his own in the middle of the pitch and the counter-attack was on straight away.

For Galway to survive against the better teams in Croke Park, they need to give the likes of Comer and Walsh that sort of licence. That defensive style they’ve developed has to be a springboard for their forwards, who have more pace to burn than most teams.

I noticed when they were talking about the big job they’ve done on Dr Hyde Park that they’ve made it exactly the same size as Croke Park
Dublin have shown time and time against Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal that there is no point coming to Croke Park looking to frustrate them and get men behind the ball. Galway have too many good players for that.

The Connacht final against Roscommon on Sunday will give them a really good idea of where they stand. I’m told the Rossies gave Cork a good trimming in a challenge game recently and Kevin McStay is too clever a coach to just send his players running down blind alleys.

I noticed when they were talking about the big job they’ve done on Dr Hyde Park that they’ve made it exactly the same size as Croke Park. You’d expect Roscommon to use every bit of it to try and drag the Galway players out of position. If they can do that and if they can be patient and take their scores, I would give the Rossies a good chance on Sunday.

The crickets would be fairly out for Kevin Walsh then!

Rossfan

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #326 on: June 14, 2018, 10:44:25 AM »
Galway here Galway there Galway everywhere :D ;D
Keep it going.......
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Cunny Funt

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #327 on: June 14, 2018, 12:07:30 PM »
Connacht final has sold out.
Only sold out on the first allocation batch.  More tickets on sale today.

Rossfan

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #328 on: June 14, 2018, 12:10:31 PM »
Are they returns from Galway?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

westbound

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Re: Connacht Senior Championship 2018
« Reply #329 on: June 14, 2018, 12:11:31 PM »
Galway here Galway there Galway everywhere :D ;D
Keep it going.......

We are mentioned in two short paragraphs at the end there!  ;) ;)