Down Club Hurling & Football

[DownFanatic]

With the Red High winning the Mageean a few years back, has the core of that team emerged as yet with the Ards teams in the SHC?

[Gaelforce123]

Fair to have an observation, mine would be that clubs do not present these management teams with players who have been invested in correctly or at least in the way that kilcoo have done. Through their juvenile playing careers they need to be moulded into athletes not just footballers and be tactically aware and of course coachable. Kilcoo isnt full of great footballers. They are the same as anyone else, some elite, some good and some average but whats different is their athletic ability, and their mentality and of course their ability to pay attention to detail even when it is to bend the rules in their favour or to mislead with regards to winning frees.

Now now...serious rule bending to win by 9 points on Sunday to be fair to us

Think you miss the point, rule bending didnt win kilcoo a final by 9 points, they were the better much team on the day. Burren got it totally wrong on the day but credit to kilcoo (for the football side of things from the weekend).
The rule bending or more so just play acting is something that is embarrassingly engrossed in their game. Can argue the point that it works, most referees fall for it somehow (bar the one who funny enough was appealed against and a small minority more) and that there no direct rule against it, but obviously instructed go down and hold your head regardless of where you are tackled that is used by every single player in every single tackle is only what I said earlier, embarrassing. Fair play to them on the win,
Medals in pocket and will forever be in history for it, i just wish they had done so with some class instead (which i believe they would have) rather than the circus that goes around with them instead. When Mayobridge were winning a run of championships everyone wanted to beat them, but they were respected, not the same now.

[johnnycool]

With the Red High winning the Mageean a few years back, has the core of that team emerged as yet with the Ards teams in the SHC?

Short answer is no.

Those lads would all still be 20/21, only Turpin to my mind has shown his mettle at senior club level on a consistent basis. Ciaran Savage is holding his own in fairness to him and starts for the Ports most days.
McGrattan has went a bit back this year, it'll take him a while to get going, Mallon may be a bit slow over the ground at the highest end of senior hurling club wise, Ports haven't really trusted him in a game of consequence as yet, O'Neill also from Portaferry has been blighted by injuries in fairness to him,  but for us Michael O'g Dorrian starts more often than not, but can do one good thing then do nothing for 20 minutes, his workrate just isn't there for me and evidently our management. The others in Ballygalget aren't putting in the required effort, get the odd 10 minutes here and there. Sadly one of the best man markers on that Red High team packed in the hurling, he's still about our place but doesn't play, but there's hope yet.

One of the Cunninghams from Castlewellan was as good as anyone on that team, not sure how he's getting on with their seniors.

[Mourne Red]

Really enjoy the breakdowns you provide Splash - Haven't the faintest idea about whats happening in hurling in the county myself, but gives a very nice insight into what's going on around the county with the small ball

[Truth hurts]

Fair to have an observation, mine would be that clubs do not present these management teams with players who have been invested in correctly or at least in the way that kilcoo have done. Through their juvenile playing careers they need to be moulded into athletes not just footballers and be tactically aware and of course coachable. Kilcoo isnt full of great footballers. They are the same as anyone else, some elite, some good and some average but whats different is their athletic ability, and their mentality and of course their ability to pay attention to detail even when it is to bend the rules in their favour or to mislead with regards to winning frees.

Now now...serious rule bending to win by 9 points on Sunday to be fair to us

Think you miss the point, rule bending didnt win kilcoo a final by 9 points, they were the better much team on the day. Burren got it totally wrong on the day but credit to kilcoo (for the football side of things from the weekend).
The rule bending or more so just play acting is something that is embarrassingly engrossed in their game. Can argue the point that it works, most referees fall for it somehow (bar the one who funny enough was appealed against and a small minority more) and that there no direct rule against it, but obviously instructed go down and hold your head regardless of where you are tackled that is used by every single player in every single tackle is only what I said earlier, embarrassing. Fair play to them on the win,
Medals in pocket and will forever be in history for it, i just wish they had done so with some class instead (which i believe they would have) rather than the circus that goes around with them instead. When Mayobridge were winning a run of championships everyone wanted to beat them, but they were respected, not the same now.

Aye, I think it's very sad that their name was carried through the mud this past week via national media channels.
The football prowess of this club should be what we remember them for, but it is being eclipsed by a few eejits who enjoy drama. I am sure the good Kilcoo folk (of which there are many) will stand up at an AGM and tell the decision-makers to catch themselves on. By acting foolishly, they have destroyed their reputation.

[johnnycool]

Kilclief have the junior game in the bag after this;

AI winner

[Applesisapples]

You will join Shane in the Harps this year then Wobbler? Sounds like you have the answers to overcome what nobody else can see? Sounds handy enough to be fair

I don't have any answers. They're just observations.

The gap between Kilcoo and everyone else is getting bigger.

And we, the clubs of Down, are paying men handsomely while this is happening.

Is this not a fair observation?

And if it is a fair observation, should we not be expecting more?

Not just in Down, in Armagh £25K plus being paid out to manage club teams that have little mission in winning the Championship, its always 80% likely to be Cross with a 20% chance of Clann Eireann, Maghery or this year Clan Na Gael.

[Truth hurts]

The primary problem would be trying to convince an insider to run a senior team within their own club. Burren and Clonduff are now looking for management. Do they have someone qualified to oversee these two significant club teams?

[No1]

JHC Final postponed until 1:30pm Sunday.

[johnnycool]

JHC Final postponed until 1:30pm Sunday.

Why so? To allow Jackie Tyrell time to get up from Kilkenny for the game?

[Mourne Red]

JHC Final postponed until 1:30pm Sunday.

Why so? To allow Jackie Tyrell time to get up from Kilkenny for the game?

Postponed due to the weather - Statement out on the Down socials. Game tomorrow is still on

[johnnycool]

JHC Final postponed until 1:30pm Sunday.

Why so? To allow Jackie Tyrell time to get up from Kilkenny for the game?

Postponed due to the weather - Statement out on the Down socials. Game tomorrow is still on

You'd fear for the pitch at this stage, a bunch of bullocks from the Highlands rampaging through it with wedges on Saturday afternoon followed by the Intermediate game, then for the junior final at 1:30 and senior game at 4pm...

It'll be in gullions as they say over here.

I'd be surprised if one of those games isn't moved before long if this weather keeps up.

[DearyMe]

Intermediate Final between Bredagh and Carryduff should be a very good game.

Not too often you see this South Belfast Derby in the hurling. I expect it to be a good show.

I always would have thought of Bredagh as being more of a hurling dominant club whilst Carryduff would be more of a football dominant club, but I would imagine Carryduff come away with the win on Saturday.

Bredagh have struggled badly this year. That devastating opening round loss to Liatroim really did set the tone for a poor season. Salvaging a win from Newry Shamrocks and beating Warrenpoint has done little to resolve the issues.

Donal Hughes has been a massive loss to them. So has Ronan Costello. It's been a hard year, but more minor success for Bredagh means I wouldn't despair too much. Bredagh will eventually win a senior hurling championship. Granted, we've been saying that for a couple of years, but surely you can't keep knocking on the door forever? With so much underage success, it's inevitable?

They'll not fear Carryduff, though. I honestly expected Carryduff to absolutely walk this championship. Whilst they've come out comfortable enough winners in every game, it hasn't been as handy as I was expecting.

Bredagh's competition will stand well to them. Carryduff have had nowhere near the same level to exposure of high level as Bredagh have this year. This may cause problems. Carryduff's forwards have been dangerous, but Bredagh have good defenders. Niall McFarland is, in my opinion, a great asset to any defence. Carryduff have very much seemed like they were destined to win this from the start, but will that complacency cause problems?

Despite all this, Carryduff should have enough to cross the line. They won the friendlies played at the start of the year, and seem to be in a better place than their neighbours at the minute.

These teams met last year in the Betsy Gray final. By all accounts, they both fielded very strong teams and went at it hammer and tongs with carryduff coming out on the better side.

Carryduff will be sick of being the bridesmaid for the past couple years, and it is hard to see anyone stopping them this time.

Either way, I would imagine whoever wins this will do quite well in Ulster. Would imagine Ulster will be between Down Champion, Middletown (Armagh), and Creggan (Antrim). Judging off the fact there was never that much between Carryduff and Liatroim, there is no reason why Carryduff should not win Ulster.

Would be great to see Carryduff win an All Ireland. Would do a lot to lift hurling in a part of Down that we could really tap in to. But let us not get ahead of ourselves.

Will be a tight battle, and Bredagh, despite the bad year they've had, are still a better hurling set up in my opinion. Carryduff have had some success at underage, but not yet on par with Bredagh (although I'm sure they will catch up). Their seconds team don't seem to be anywhere near as competitive this year as they were. Wonder what happened there. Despite this, based on current form, I expect Carryduff to come away with the win.

Will be another great showcase of hurling I hope. The whole north down/Belfast area is one which Down GAA is yet to properly tap into. It seems to be one which we could really benefit from. All three north down hurling teams are in a final this weekend (the other being East Belfast in the Junior Final)- this a great thing for Down. We have a large area of the county which thus far, hasn't really been tapped into. There is a lot of potential here. From a hurling perspective, we are also lucky it has not got a football tradition. We all know the problems with trying to establish hurling in places where football is king. We have a chance to promote both side by side in these areas we are only now starting to see develop into top tier clubs.

On that note, is there many dual players between Bredagh and Carryduff?

All in all, a unique game, and one which should offer a great evening's entertainment.

Very good Splash, and not a lot to disagree with other than the outcome me thinks.  I think Carryduff have been struggling with a few injuries the last 4 weeks or so, they really have had to dig into their squad.  I also think they were better at the beginning of the season.  Bredagh have indeed been dealt a few blows this year, but its going to be a competitive one, looking forward to it!  I have Bredagh as winners but just!  Expect it to be a very tight affair.  Added interest is that both managers hail from the same club in Antrim and possibly played together at senior level. All the more intriguing!!!

[johnnycool]

Intermediate Final between Bredagh and Carryduff should be a very good game.

Not too often you see this South Belfast Derby in the hurling. I expect it to be a good show.

I always would have thought of Bredagh as being more of a hurling dominant club whilst Carryduff would be more of a football dominant club, but I would imagine Carryduff come away with the win on Saturday.

Bredagh have struggled badly this year. That devastating opening round loss to Liatroim really did set the tone for a poor season. Salvaging a win from Newry Shamrocks and beating Warrenpoint has done little to resolve the issues.

Donal Hughes has been a massive loss to them. So has Ronan Costello. It's been a hard year, but more minor success for Bredagh means I wouldn't despair too much. Bredagh will eventually win a senior hurling championship. Granted, we've been saying that for a couple of years, but surely you can't keep knocking on the door forever? With so much underage success, it's inevitable?

They'll not fear Carryduff, though. I honestly expected Carryduff to absolutely walk this championship. Whilst they've come out comfortable enough winners in every game, it hasn't been as handy as I was expecting.

Bredagh's competition will stand well to them. Carryduff have had nowhere near the same level to exposure of high level as Bredagh have this year. This may cause problems. Carryduff's forwards have been dangerous, but Bredagh have good defenders. Niall McFarland is, in my opinion, a great asset to any defence. Carryduff have very much seemed like they were destined to win this from the start, but will that complacency cause problems?

Despite all this, Carryduff should have enough to cross the line. They won the friendlies played at the start of the year, and seem to be in a better place than their neighbours at the minute.

These teams met last year in the Betsy Gray final. By all accounts, they both fielded very strong teams and went at it hammer and tongs with carryduff coming out on the better side.

Carryduff will be sick of being the bridesmaid for the past couple years, and it is hard to see anyone stopping them this time.

Either way, I would imagine whoever wins this will do quite well in Ulster. Would imagine Ulster will be between Down Champion, Middletown (Armagh), and Creggan (Antrim). Judging off the fact there was never that much between Carryduff and Liatroim, there is no reason why Carryduff should not win Ulster.

Would be great to see Carryduff win an All Ireland. Would do a lot to lift hurling in a part of Down that we could really tap in to. But let us not get ahead of ourselves.

Will be a tight battle, and Bredagh, despite the bad year they've had, are still a better hurling set up in my opinion. Carryduff have had some success at underage, but not yet on par with Bredagh (although I'm sure they will catch up). Their seconds team don't seem to be anywhere near as competitive this year as they were. Wonder what happened there. Despite this, based on current form, I expect Carryduff to come away with the win.

Will be another great showcase of hurling I hope. The whole north down/Belfast area is one which Down GAA is yet to properly tap into. It seems to be one which we could really benefit from. All three north down hurling teams are in a final this weekend (the other being East Belfast in the Junior Final)- this a great thing for Down. We have a large area of the county which thus far, hasn't really been tapped into. There is a lot of potential here. From a hurling perspective, we are also lucky it has not got a football tradition. We all know the problems with trying to establish hurling in places where football is king. We have a chance to promote both side by side in these areas we are only now starting to see develop into top tier clubs.

On that note, is there many dual players between Bredagh and Carryduff?

All in all, a unique game, and one which should offer a great evening's entertainment.

Very good Splash, and not a lot to disagree with other than the outcome me thinks.  I think Carryduff have been struggling with a few injuries the last 4 weeks or so, they really have had to dig into their squad.  I also think they were better at the beginning of the season.  Bredagh have indeed been dealt a few blows this year, but its going to be a competitive one, looking forward to it!  I have Bredagh as winners but just!  Expect it to be a very tight affair.  Added interest is that both managers hail from the same club in Antrim and possibly played together at senior level. All the more intriguing!!!

Noticed big Anton along the line for Carryduff, who's with Bredagh? I thought it was one of their own lads I see at a lot of juvenile games.

Also noticed Liatroim camogs had big Donal Nugent with them on Sunday, must be plenty of money generated from the Festival for all those outgoings!

[DearyMe]

Down football is falling down with coaches who can quickly spot and replicate the more negative sides of Kilcoo's game: how to form a blockade between your 21 and 25. How to endlessly recycle with patience. How to assign man markers who literally do nothing but man mark. How to wind up and leave sky digs on opponents. How to intimidate referees. How to appeal and jostle every county board decision. How to build a cloak of omertà around the team. Etc.

But despite all of their expensive support teams and specialists, and despite all of their infatuation with stupid statistics, and with even stupider GPS data, and despite all of their hours watching, dissecting then foisting the sheer boredom of club football videos upon everyone...... not one manager in the county seems to be able to get a handle on let alone replicate what makes Kilcoo so bloody good.

None of them have found a way to control momentum against Kilcoo; actually none of them have even found a way to negate Kilcoo's control of momentum. None of them seem to be able to stop Kane kicking the ball into an unmarked man in the right half back channel, even though this has been his bailout kick out for years. So nobody ever scores twice in a row against them. When teams do force Kilcoo into a mistake, it's almost a given that they'll then retreat and hug the life out of the ball for a couple of mins just to get a breather; the exact opposite of how Kilcoo behave in this situation, where they'll pile forward at multiple angles. When you have the ball and Kilcoo get you where they want you - endlessly recycling on the Kilcoo 45 - it never seems to dawn on anyone that this might be the correct time to load the square and make Kilcoo retreat to match up the numbers, and not just form a line with them across the 45, waiting for the inevitable dispossession.


I'm not saying that Kilcoo aren't better anyhow. They probably are. But by f**k wouldn't it be nice if one team in Down didn't just fall into their traps? Just once?

Management in Down club football is bluffery of the highest order. Absolute bluffery.

Great last line - while everyone can put their own spin on progress - the 'circuit' as its now called, knows no boundaries!