Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Rossfan]

Does Bombast consider it alright to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd like Enniskillen?
Seeing as he's concerned about Sgt McCabe does he/she condemn the murders of Gardai Hand, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan,  Clerkin all killed by his/her Provo heroes?
Meanwhile he/she is berating anyone and everyone about 2 things about which there is conjecture but which haven't been proven and another supposition based on the views of Evil Eoghan Harris who has been revising History to coincide with his own and  Independent Newspapers prejudices for the last 30 years or more.

[seafoid]

iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.

Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.

Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

[Syferus]

Shinners don't do introspection, Sea.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Does Bombast consider it alright to set off a bomb in the middle of a crowd like Enniskillen?
Seeing as he's concerned about Sgt McCabe does he/she condemn the murders of Gardai Hand, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan,  Clerkin all killed by his/her Provo heroes?
Meanwhile he/she is berating anyone and everyone about 2 things about which there is conjecture but which haven't been proven and another supposition based on the views of Evil Eoghan Harris who has been revising History to coincide with his own and  Independent Newspapers prejudices for the last 30 years or more.

I consider it as alright as it was to slaughter 13 men and boys down in Dunmanway, which you obviously think is ok.

Just like neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust, Free Staters like you deny Dunmanway.

Are you aware the IRA killed hundreds of RIC officers during the War of Independence?

[Il Bomber Destro]

iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.

Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.

Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would know all about the killings of civilians so I don't see why SF would have to justify anything to them.

[seafoid]

iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.

Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.

Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would know all about the killings of civilians so I don't see why SF would have to justify anything to them.

Once you are justifying atrocities you are losing. Women in the South will not vote for atrocities . Getting you onto this subject is trapping you.
SF has to think about how to get where it wants to go. Otherwise it is tooling around. 

[Il Bomber Destro]

iL Bomber, you might want to wait until the Tribunal findings to determine who was trying to smear McCabe because it turns out the two Gardai accused by Mick Wallace in the Dail did nothing wrong at all and their report matched McCabe's hidden recording. They now are sueing media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-officers-accused-of-trying-to-damage-sgt-mccabe-now-suing-media-1.3350352?mode=amp

Named and shamed in Dail by Mick Wallace but very little reporting so far that their good names were cleared.

That doesn't seem to clear anything up about a FG minister making false claims about having no knowledge of a smear campaign against a Garda whistleblower and the very serious (fabricated) allegations made against when there was evidence that she was fully aware of the goings on.

Now why were the usual suspects on here not bringing their soapbox to the FG thread to voice their outrage about how a Government minister could be fully aware of such a callous treatment of an innocent man who only wanted to stop Gardai corruption and allow it continue?

The FG hierarchy seem to be have been fully briefed all the away along about the Garda hierarchy's despicable campaign against McCabe and were happy to let them at it, whatever the nature of their tactics as long as controversy and reform could be avoided. I guess all you guys think that's ok though? I haven't seen much condemnation on the role of FG in this case, on here anyway. Why was that I wonder?

From the link you posted, the inaccurate information seems to have been put forward by counsel for the Garda Commissioner - a Garda Commissioner that was up to her neck in it. A Garda Commissioner that FG hemmed and hawed over sending out to pasture despite all the damning evidence against her.

Bomber

I think you will have a hard time convincing people that corruption is worse than what happened in Enniskillen.

When neoliberalism collapses a lot of Southern institutions will probably be reformed. What whataboutery will you use then?

One happened in the midst of a bloody conflict.

The other didn't.

I don't think I'd have a hard time convincing people that Enniskillen was no worse than Dunmanway, which seems to have been airbrushed out of Free State history.

Dunmanway was widely condemned including by the IRA.
Killing civilians contravenes the rules of war.
I wouldn't defend the Birmingham pub bombings under the fog of war either.
Marylou has awful problems trying to justify the murder of civilians.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would know all about the killings of civilians so I don't see why SF would have to justify anything to them.

Once you are justifying atrocities you are losing. Women in the South will not vote for atrocities . Getting you onto this subject is trapping you.
SF has to think about how to get where it wants to go. Otherwise it is tooling around.

Once you are talking out both sides of your mouth you are losing.

Atrocities are part and parcel of war, you look at any conflict through the years - terrible acts will have been carried out on both sides- the fact that the Irish and British Government did nothing to tackle a rampant sectarian statelet made war an inevitability. The fact that the free state continues to moralise and pontificate to Norther nationalists on the acts of armed republicans during the troubles stinks when they have never confronted the atrocities they carried out for their own freedom.

As much as you would like to, you can't have it both ways.

If women in the south won't vote for atrocities, then they should be reminded who exactly they are voting for - Ballyseedy? Dunmanway? Lemass? Collins?

Maybe Free Staters should learn some history about their own state.

[Rossfan]

Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

You're not aware of FG and FF having gunmen and their dynasties who were leading figures in the IRA being elected members of their party.

I hope you keep engaging with me. Anti-treaty IRA (Fianna Fail) and Pro-treay IRA (Fine Gael) have plenty of blood on their hands, there was no truth and reconciliation for the Irish Civil War which cost hundreds of civilian lives in your state, mindless bloodshed with the combatants holding the highest offices of power in the land - but these killers were ok - it's just the ones up North where your contention lie with?

For once why can't you show us you are genuine and face down your own state's shameless bloody past?

[east down gael]

The last week has underlined for me how far gone politics in the north is. Maybe i'm missing something here,but there is no way McElduff meant that in the way he has been accused of.not a single doubt in my mind.not a shinnerbot,not a Sinn Fein voter but I do follow politics. I don't find McElduff entertaining,more cringeworthy.but he's been hung out to dry here.
  It's understandable the DUP jumping on this bandwagon,with the amount of similar blunders they have made,they must have thought their prayers had been answered.even possibly the UUP to a lesser extent. I was disappointed however with the SDLP and their response to the situation. I'm presuming some,the likes of Mccrossan,would know McElduff well enough through work to know he wouldn't have meant the video to be offensive.yet they chose political point scoring as their priority,and along with the other parties,are the people I would hold responsible for this horrible attrocity being dragged back up and causing fresh grief for the relatives.

[Therealdonald]

Dunmanway killings were done by the anti treaty IRA for a start.
Secondly they believed they had evidence that many of those killed had been active in anti Volunteer activities and had been informing British soldiers and Auxiliaries of volunteer activities etc.
I am not aware of either Fianna Fáil , founded 1926/7 or Fine Gael, founded 1934 killing civilians deliberately or accidently.

The RIC were armed combatants in a War,
The Gardai were unarmed and we're mown down by Provos who if they were true Republicans would not have been militarily active in the 26 Cos.

You're not aware of FG and FF having gunmen and their dynasties who were leading figures in the IRA being elected members of their party.

I hope you keep engaging with me. Anti-treaty IRA (Fianna Fail) and Pro-treay IRA (Fine Gael) have plenty of blood on their hands, there was no truth and reconciliation for the Irish Civil War which cost hundreds of civilian lives in your state, mindless bloodshed with the combatants holding the highest offices of power in the land - but these killers were ok - it's just the ones up North where your contention lie with?

For once why can't you show us you are genuine and face down your own state's shameless bloody past?

I think that's the part that the likes of Rossfan can't understand. He doesn't understand the loyalty that the majority of Catholics in the North have towards the members of SF. Alot of them men literally laid down their lives trying to secure an equality that we now have. Consider someone like Gerry Kelly or even McGuinness. Both live or lived among the people. The people of the North respect them for two reasons:
1. When there was dirty work to be done and defending to be done they led the line.
2. Even now when there's less dirty work to be done, Gerry Kelly is being driven on top of a landrover as ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE.

Then we have people saying that Bomber is a SF bot. He's not. He's just calling out the hypocrites on their blind eye policy. If Collins and De Valera, had fought with the brit establishment to give up the West instead of the North, I reckon we would have had a completely different outcome, those in the West would be happy to lie down and have everything they stood for denounced. So forgive me or Bomber or anyone else if we don't jump on the ''Bash Barry'' bus. For all you non believers about McElduff, drive to Carrickmore for a Championship game and you will find him there with his luminous green Carmen top on among his people, and the people don't forget that ( as opposed to as was suggested earlier that the people of West Tyrone don't know any better.)

I suggest that you just let it go Bomber, these Free Staters just don't get it.

[michaelg]

The last week has underlined for me how far gone politics in the north is. Maybe i'm missing something here,but there is no way McElduff meant that in the way he has been accused of.not a single doubt in my mind.not a shinnerbot,not a Sinn Fein voter but I do follow politics. I don't find McElduff entertaining,more cringeworthy.but he's been hung out to dry here.
  It's understandable the DUP jumping on this bandwagon,with the amount of similar blunders they have made,they must have thought their prayers had been answered.even possibly the UUP to a lesser extent. I was disappointed however with the SDLP and their response to the situation. I'm presuming some,the likes of Mccrossan,would know McElduff well enough through work to know he wouldn't have meant the video to be offensive.yet they chose political point scoring as their priority,and along with the other parties,are the people I would hold responsible for this horrible attrocity being dragged back up and causing fresh grief for the relatives.

How's it  look through your green tinted specs?  In summary, all Prods are bigots and Nationalists and Republicans are the good guys, without a  sectarian bone in their bodies.  Can you even countenance the possibility that little Barry knew exactly what he was doing?  Did you ever study probability at school?

[BennyCake]

Maybe SF and DUP are in cahoots. I mean, no assembly for a year. Under pressure to get talking, sort things out etc. But the news is full of loaf of bread, cartoons, curry my yogurt type statements. It's all a diversion from them actually getting off their holes and doing something!

Maybe they're deliberately at it (ironically, both agreeing to it). Both parties are unlikely to have voting affected anyway, so it's a win win for both parties.

[east down gael]

Come again?you've picked me up wrong there I think.i don't understand how you've come to your conclusion from what i've said.in answer to your question tho,no.i genuinely don't believe he did make the video in the spirit you think.it would be so unbelievably bad,I can't think of a word strong enough to say how stupid it would be.i don't think i've ever met anyone who would find it funny if it were intended as you think.
   For the record I don't think all Protestant/unionist people are bigots and nationalist/catholic people are not.truly.

[Rossfan]

If present day FF and FG have blood on their hands because of what their predecessors may have done then -
The Provo Army Council and it's successors SF, have inherited guilt for Dunmanway because
The Provo Army Council were appointed as the True  Government of the Republic by Comdt.General Maguire the last survivor of the 2nd Dàil.
Just wondering how planting a bomb in the middle of a large gathering in 1987 could advance the securing of equality for Northern Nationalists?
How did fire bombing a hotel while a function was being held do so?
How did the killing of Gerry McCabe do so?
How did leaving a bomb in a rubbish bin in Warrington do so?

Ye're free to vote for who ye like up North - some prize specimens have been elected alright God Help us!!!! With the DUPUDA providing most of them.

However the Shinners will have major problems getting beyond 15% in the 26 and especially if Bomber and others keep up their "free state (sic) bad SF wonderful" mantra.

I suspect we'll see Marylou appointed Leader to get away from the warlords/Army Council leadership and a load of bright young shiny untainted candidates for the next election.