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Messages - omaghjoe

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1
GAA Discussion / Re: Armagh v Tyrone U20
« on: June 18, 2018, 10:01:19 PM »
So Armagh are appealing all 10 suspensions. Ffs, the GAA disciplinary procedures are utterly useless. Does the Armagh Co Board really believe that not one Armagh player deserves a suspension? Like I said before, a newly rewritten rule book is needed so loopholes are eliminated and decisions are more water tight. I’d double suspensions if appeals are unsuccessful.

No doubt those posters falling over themselves to condemn Tyrone’s appeal last week will be doing the same again here??

Are we really appealing all ten? That’s a joke.

http://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/286666

I think Tyrone’s appeal was vindictive. Could be wrong mind, but it’s what I think. However if we are appealing because some young players are gonna miss out on a big game that is plain stupid. Obviously I dunno the grounds of the appeals or which players have been banned but from the video some players look bang to rights

What iabout appealing to punish random thugs polluting the sport

2
GAA Discussion / Re: Armagh v Tyrone U20
« on: June 15, 2018, 11:54:02 PM »
Embarrassing episode for all sides. Armagh's behaviour during the game, and Tyrone's afterwards, has been poor.

Totally agree - best summary to date!

Except he/she left out Tyrone’s behaviour during the game

The poor behaviour I referred to during the game was the subs and officials running onto the pitch to join a row. Let the players sort it and it wouldn't have escalated.

Many, including all who actually know the meaning of the word would conclude that a melee that included all 30 players had in fact already "escalated".

I'm not defending those who ran on. They are bang to rights and will struggle to evade punishment

Further escalated, then.

Must go and hoke out the dictionary so i don't offend you in future.

I'm more interested in your argument that the 30 man brawl didn't involve poor behaviour. And that the poor behaviour only commenced when the Tyrone and Armagh benches ran on. And that some how the 30 players sorting it out for themselves would have been ok.

It's not an argument, it's an opinion.

I believe that the worst behaviour on the pitch involved subs and officials joining a row.

The worst behaviour after the match (apart from the shite talked on this thread) involved appealing the result.

Twist that whatever way suits. Good luck in the final.

An opinion based on what though?

What did you see that was worse that the Tyrone forward steaming in with the flying shoulder?

Worse than that?......Everythin pretty much... that was the best thing I saw in the whole melee.

3
General discussion / Re: Boxing Thread
« on: June 15, 2018, 10:13:54 PM »
He was never going to get the fight anyway, everyone and their dog knew it would be GGG v Alvarez in September, sure the flipping suspension was even tailored to allow it to happen in line with the Mexican Independence Day celebrations.

Saunders should have taken any offer he got in the past year... cos with GGG stripped of the IBF, unification is no longer GGG's top priority and that means Saunder's stock just dropped.

Couldn't happen to a nicer fella

4
GAA Discussion / Re: Carlow v Tyrone
« on: June 15, 2018, 10:09:37 PM »
Staying down for this one. Having never been to the great town of Carlow can anyone recommend anywhere good for a drink before hand? Or any establishments for the Saturday night?
The Foundry.

Carlow had a foundry?

5
GAA Discussion / Re: Armagh v Tyrone U20
« on: June 15, 2018, 06:32:13 PM »
Seems to be fairly obvious what went down here. Tyrone denied Armagh in normal time, were beating them in extra time. Armagh couldn't take it and went to town when the row broke out, Tyrone then let the row get to them and got beat.

Good work Armagh you have form for this carryon. 05 Ulster final?
Tho that came back to bit yous in the arse and it looks like the same is happening here.

Learn from your mistakes? Nah yis are not capable of that I wudnt think. And besides it wasnt really a mistake as actually winning the match/competition is not half as important as having a row with Tyrone and then castigating Tyrone as the big bad villan afterwards.

6
General discussion / Re: Holidays
« on: June 02, 2018, 09:09:10 AM »
Ko Muk easily the most beautiful island and beach ive been to in Thailand or anywhere

7
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 02, 2018, 09:07:05 AM »
If you want to talk about a post Catholic society you need to tear down all standards and morality that exist, decide on a basis and then built it up from there otherwise its really only an an al carte Catholic society or a la carte anti-Catholic society.

Absolute rubbish.

"Don't kill people" has nothing to do with being Catholic or not. There's no need to "tear it down and rebuild"

Your logic is deeply flawed.

Huh? I didnt say it did, but many societal standards are.

Tho thinking about it.... Catholicism has a clear reasoning for why you should not kill,.... so why should you not kill?

8
General discussion / Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« on: June 02, 2018, 09:00:15 AM »
I know that seafoid. Rape, barring obvious physical evidence of a struggle, or witnesses, is largely one person's word versus another. But surely the threat of the court case and punishment are some sort of deterrent? I can't see who lowering the punishment for it would help in any way. Rape is one of the most traumatic crimes a woman can endure, and is about the power and domination over that woman. To not view it as "spectacularly violent crime" is abhorrent to me.

You're missing the point completely. When a case of rape doesn't fit into the extreme that it is associated with, as it usually doesn't, there is an unwillingness to convict. Breaking it down, and having 'degrees' of rape as such would allow greater clarity and make it easier to convict. The punishment would be appropriate to fit the degree of the crime. If you don't see a difference between (on two extremes) someone dragging a woman up an alleyway and forcibly raping them, and someone taking a condom off during previously consensual sex, and see both as 'spectacularly violent' and deserving of the same treatment and punishment, then you're blinded by something.

It isn't always, or even often, the right thing to shout for harsher treatment of perpetrators in a misguided and likely unhelpful act of solidarity with victims. We need to think about all aspects of these crimes and how best to punish, rehabilitate, help the victim.

Sorry is there any evidence that when rape isn't violent juries are more likely to acquit?  Juries are directed by judges on a weekly basis if the three elements of the offence are there then you convict. They are told to ignore what they perceive rape to be and focus on the definition provided by the Judge. If we think juries can't do that then the idea of introducing degrees of rape to secure higher conviction rates is incredibly troubling.

There's a few things that have been mentioned on here that stick in my craw and for the final time I preface this with I wasn't at the trial and I am basing this entirely on media reports which as I experienced last Friday are often very inaccurate. Firstly the PPS presented an exposure case against Blaine McIlroy. The complainants evidence against him was well documented. If the jury believed that evidence then he would have been convicted. Owing to how he ran his defence he didn't have the defence of reasonable belief she consented. Therefore the jury simply didn't believe her. It's not a case of they believed her but there was enough evidence. In his case believing her was entirely enough evidence. They didn't. If they didn't believe her about that part of her evidence the public are entirely entitled to ask what else didn't they believe her about.

Two when it comes to sentencing there already are degrees of rape, life is the maximum very rarely used sentencing withheld for only the most extreme of cases for repeated offenders. Spousal rape for example has a starting point after trial of 4 years custody I think. Tying sentences hands with categories of rape is in my opinion counter productive.

On the idea of annonimity by law the complaintant has this for life. The accused does not because having considered in great depth the pros and cons of such an order it was decided that the deterrent that naming the accused brought outweighed the benefits to society of annonimity. It was at the time and remains a knife edge decision but for Justice to be done it must also be seen to be done. 

Finally the comment they are likely rapists is defamatory and should be removed in my opinion to protect both the posters who have used it and the board in general.

Hmm... maybe we should forward it to KRW Law... how are they getting on with Aodhán Ó Riordáin?

9
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 02, 2018, 08:53:07 AM »
Catholic doctrine has formed the basis of Western morality and ethitics. It permeates the very fabric of society like it or not: law, values, etc.
Sure wasnt the great derider of Christianity Niche frustrated at that very thing.

I would savely say that the majority of Irish and Western people still adhere to the vast majority of the doctrine in how they act out their life.
Same as there are a la carte Catholics (which all Catholics are to some degree or another) you also have a la Carte anti-Catholics who say they are opposed to church teachings but actually their personal values and especially in the action we take are actually probably broadly in line with it.
Joe, are you being disingenuous?

If an atheist treats others how he/she would like to be treated, this has nothing, necessarily, to do with teachings of Catholocism. The test of an "anti-Catholic" as you put it surely isn't to disagree with all catholic teachings for the sake of it.

No... are you Esm?

A great many reckon they are anti-Catholic/christian/theist even tho they will adhere to societal norms that were instilled in society from Catholic theology.
And most if not all of these norms were instilled in society from some sort of theism or spirituality
Are you suggesting that, was it not for Catholocism, that you and I would behave with little regard for others? An atheist mother rearing her child to treat others nicely is only doing so because her ancestors were brought up in a society influenced by Catholic theology?

No I wasn't suggesting that exactly, more that we would behave differently. But that is certainly a possibility since religion is most likely the largest influence on Western societal norms we do behave in that way

And yes that's exactly an example that I was suggesting with the atheist mother, cultural traditions are very strong and are maintained through generations.
Of course she could be convincing herself that she is doing it for some other reason, (Not sure how an atheist would reason what actions would be "nice to others" are or even choice is exactly without some sort of intuitive spiritual influence, but that's another story.) but more than likely it involves societal norms which have been shaped by Catholic theology.
Let's assume you're right for the minute and that "good behaviour" can be linked back to religious teachings. What relevance does that have to people's view on Catholocism as a whole in today's society. Surely one can reject something while accepting that it has its good points?


You could hardly be anti Catholic unless you reject everything that was introduced and espoused by Catholic teaching now could you?... It would make more of an a la carte anti Catholic wouldnt it?
I have to hand it to you Joe. You're a very skilled debater.

However, the thread, as I see it, is to do with catholocism's place in Irish society. I think it was you that used the term anti-catholic, however I'm not sure anyone else has used it or considers themself "anti-catholic".

There are those that believe in the god as taught by the catholic church. They consider themselves catholic. This god has a representative on earth and the teachings change with time. I don't think there's anything that says it's ok to not adhere to or not believe in the teachings as a whole. With that in mind, I find it strange that people consider themselves catholic when they knowingly don't practice as they've been taught to.

On the other hand, there are people that don't believe in this god. However, they happen to agree with some of the teachings. This may be down to education historically coming from the church but it's irrelevant as the whole concept of this god means nothing to them.

So I would say that if you consider yourself a catholic then the onus is on you to follow the rules in full, so to speak. Non-subscribers, I suppose, will act without this burden as they don't believe in it. They're not anti-anything, they're just not catholic.

Esm
The OP was about a post Catholic Ireland and there were numerous comments predicting and celebrating the demise of the Catholic church and its teachings I added my 2ps worth by basically saying that it would be pretty hard to do that since a great many society norms and standards are basically Catholic norms.

If its post catholic, anti catholic whatever its all the same, as its using the Catholic church/theology/doctrines as a reference point. So yes you are right the onus is on Catholics to adhere to Catholic standards, which I fail frequently with and am uncomfortable with some of it so its probably not unfair to say that i am a bit of an a la Carte Catholic if you want (incidentally I dont really as I believe the church is the congregation which has many individual opinions). But using the same logic at its also true to say if you are post-Catholic or opposed to Catholic teachings then you need to oppose the lot otherwise your also an a la carte anti-catholic

If you want to talk about a post Catholic society you need to tear down all standards and morality that exist, decide on a basis and then built it up from there otherwise its really only an an al carte Catholic society or a la carte anti-Catholic society.

10
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 02, 2018, 08:22:05 AM »
I hardly need to point out that the worst genocides in recent History have been carried out in the name of atheism, often against those who practise religion

The old Stalin / Hitler / Pol Pot trope. Standard rebuttal: Stalin was a paranoid lunatic who thought everyone was out to get him and came to power in a communist state that rewarded despotism.

Hitler was raised a Catholic, taught to hate Jews, and dabbled in the occult. His atrocities had many motivations (chiefly making Germany great again), but disproving the existence of God was not one of them.

Pol Pot's communism was so extreme even the Soviets were aghast. His regime opposed the existence of religion, minority groups, western-educated intellectuals, educated people, or anyone that had been touched by foreign influence. To describe his actions as being "in the name of atheism" is a gross oversimplification at best.

Firstly I was replying to a point that said that the War in Iraq was instigated by religion which is clealry nonsennse so I was crudely trying to draw some parallels. But its a fair point Eammon I was probably overstating "in the name of atheism" for effect. Tho in the case of Pol Pot and in China it would not be unfair to say a large influence on the genocide was inspried by anti-theism, which also seems to be the basis for the recent surge of pop atheism.
Hilter too had similar personal influences.

The overriding cause for their actions tho I believe was an over-focus on their ideologies with no regard for anything else other than their end goal and no regard for how they got there, ends justify the means and all that. And that I believe was at least partly because once in power they had a complete disregard for their conscience, or a higher power, both of which their ideology reasoned away and demonised.

To put this in terms of today society I am concerned by Leaders who dont believe in something, they believe they are Emperor who answers to no one, they can easily invent their own standards for their own reasons

11
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 01, 2018, 11:39:55 PM »
Here's a quick copy and paste fo what Catholicism has done in the world:

1. Light and the cosmos

The Opus Maius (1267) of the Franciscan Roger Bacon (d 1292), written at the request of Pope Clement IV, largely initiated the tradition of optics in the Latin world. The first spectacles were invented in Italy around 1300, an application of lenses that developed later into telescopes and microscopes.

While many people think of Galileo (d 1642) being persecuted, they tend to forget the peculiar circumstances of these events, or the fact that he died in his bed and his daughter became a nun.

The Gregorian Calendar (1582), now used worldwide, is a fruit of work by Catholic astronomers, as is the development of astrophysics by the spectroscopy of Fr Angelo Secchi (d 1878).

Most remarkably, the most important theory of modern cosmology, the Big Bang, was invented by a Catholic priest, Fr Georges Lemaître (d 1966, pictured), a historical fact that is almost never mentioned by the BBC or in popular science books.
2. Earth and nature

Catholic civilisation has made a remarkable contribution to the scientific investigation and mapping of the earth, producing great explorers such as Marco Polo (d 1324), Prince Henry the Navigator (d 1460), Bartolomeu Dias (d 1500), Christopher Columbus (d 1506) and Ferdinand Magellan
(d 1521). Far from believing that the world was flat (a black legend invented in the 19th century), the Catholic world produced the first modern scientific map: Diogo Ribeiro’s Padrón Real (1527). Fr Nicolas Steno (d 1686) was the founder of stratigraphy, the interpretation of rock strata which is one of the principles of geology.

Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (d 1829), a French Catholic, developed the first theory of evolution, including the notion of the transmutation of species and a genealogical tree. The Augustinian monk Gregor Mendel (d 1884, pictured) founded the science of genetics based on the meticulous study of the inherited characteristics of some 29,000 pea plants.

3. Philosophy and theology

Catholicism regards philosophy as intrinsically good and was largely responsible for founding theology, the application of reason to what has been revealed supernaturally. Great Catholic philosophers include St Augustine (d 430), St Thomas Aquinas (d 1274), St Anselm (d 1109), Blessed Duns Scotus (d 1308), Suárez (d 1617) and Blaise Pascal (d 1662). Recent figures include St Edith Stein (d 1942, pictured), Elizabeth Anscombe (d 2001) and Alasdair MacIntyre. On the basis that God is a God of reason and love, Catholics have defended the irreducibility of the human person to matter, the principle that created beings can be genuine causes of their own actions, free will, the role of the virtues in happiness, objective good and evil, natural law and the principle of non-contradiction. These principles have had an incalculable influence on intellectual life and culture.

4. Education and the university system

Perhaps the greatest single contribution to education to emerge from Catholic civilisation was the development of the university system. Early Catholic universities include Bologna (1088); Paris (c 1150); Oxford (1167, pictured); Salerno (1173); Vicenza (1204); Cambridge (1209); Salamanca (1218-1219); Padua (1222); Naples (1224) and Vercelli (1228). By the middle of the 15th-century (more than 70 years before the Reformation), there were over 50 universities in Europe.

Many of these universities, such as Oxford, still show signs of their Catholic foundation, such as quadrangles modelled on monastic cloisters, gothic architecture and numerous chapels. Starting from the sixth-century Catholic Europe also developed what were later called grammar schools and, in the 15th century, produced the movable type printing press system, with incalculable benefits for education. Today, it has been estimated that Church schools educate more than 50 million students worldwide.

5. Art and architecture

Faith in the Incarnation, the Word made Flesh and the Sacrifice of the Mass have been the founding principles of extraordinary Catholic contributions to art and architecture. These contributions include: the great basilicas of ancient Rome; the work of Giotto (d 1337), who initiated a realism in painting the Franciscan Stations of the Cross, which helped to inspire three-dimensional art and drama; the invention of one-point linear perspective by Brunelleschi (d 1446) and the great works of the High Renaissance. The latter include the works of Blessed Fra Angelico (d 1455), today the patron saint of art, and the unrivalled work of Leonardo da Vinci (d 1519), Raphael (d 1520), Caravaggio (d 1610, pictured), Michelangelo (d 1564) and Bernini (d 1680). Many of the works of these artists, such as the Sistine Chapel ceiling, are considered among the greatest works of art of all time. Catholic civilisation also founded entire genres, such as Byzantine, Romanesque, Gothic, High Renaissance and Baroque architecture. The Cristo Redentor statue in Brazil and the Sagrada Familia basilica in Barcelona show that the faith continues to be an inspiration for highly original art and architecture.

6. Law and jurisprudence

The reforms of Pope Gregory VII (d 1085, pictured) gave impetus to forming the laws of the Church and states of Europe. The subsequent application of philosophy to law, together with the great works of monks like the 12th-century Gratian, produced the first complete, systematic bodies of law, in which all parts are viewed as interacting to form a whole. This revolution also led to the founding of law schools, starting in Bologna (1088), from which the legal profession emerged, and concepts such as “corporate personality”, the legal basis of a wide range of bodies today such as universities, corporations and trust funds. Legal principles such as “good faith”, reciprocity of rights, equality before the law, international law, trial by jury, habeas corpus and the obligation to prove an offence beyond a reasonable doubt are all fruits of Catholic civilisation and jurisprudence.

7. Language

The centrality of Greek and Latin to Catholicism has greatly facilitated popular literacy, since true alphabets are far easier to learn than the symbols of logographic languages, such as Chinese. Spread by Catholic missions and exploration, the Latin alphabet is now the most widely used alphabetic writing system in the world. Catholics also developed the Armenian, Georgian and Cyrillic alphabets and standard scripts, such as Carolingian minuscule from the ninth to 12th centuries, and Gothic miniscule (from the 12th). Catholicism also provided the cultural framework for the Divina Commedia (Divine Comedy), the Cantar de Mio Cid (“The Song of my Lord”) and La Chanson de Roland (The Song of Roland), vernacular works that greatly influenced the development of Italian, Spanish and French respectively. The Catholic Hymn of Cædmon in the seventh century is arguably the oldest extant text of Old English. Valentin Haüy (d 1822), brother of the Abbé Haüy (the priest who invented crystallography), founded the first school for the blind. The most famous student of this school, Louis Braille (d 1852), developed the worldwide system of writing for the blind that today bears his name.

8. Music

Catholic civilisation virtually invented the western musical tradition, drawing on Jewish antecedents in early liturgical music. Monophonic Gregorian chant developed from the sixth century. Methods for recording chant led to the invention of musical notion (staff notation), of incalculable benefit for the recording of music, and the ut-re-mi (“do-re-mi”) mnemonic device of Guido of Arezzo (d 1003). From the 10th century cathedral schools developed polyphonic music, extended later to as many as 40 voices (Tallis, Spem in Alium) and even 60 voices (Striggio, Missa Sopra Ecco).

Musical genres that largely or wholly originated with Catholic civilisation include the hymn, the oratorio and the opera. Haydn (d 1809), a devout Catholic, strongly shaped the development of the symphony and string quartet. Church patronage and liturgical forms shaped many works by Monteverdi (d 1643), Vivaldi (d 1741), Mozart (d 1791, pictured) and Beethoven (d 1827). The great Symphony No 8 of Mahler (d 1911) takes as its principal theme the ancient hymn of Pentecost, Veni creator spiritus.

9. The status of women

Contrary to popular prejudice, extraordinary and influential women have been one of the hallmarks of Catholic civilisation. The faith has honoured many women saints, including recent Doctors of the Church, and nurtured great nuns, such as St Hilda (d 680, pictured) (after whom St Hilda’s College, Oxford, is named) and Blessed Hildegard von Bingen (d 1179), abbess and polymath. Pioneering Catholic women in political life include Empress Matilda (d 1167), Eleanor of Aquitaine (d 1204) and the first Queen of England, Mary Tudor (d 1558).

Catholic civilisation also produced many of the first women scientists and professors: Trotula of Salerno in the 11th century, Dorotea Bucca (d 1436), who held a chair in medicine at the University of Bologna, Elena Lucrezia Piscopia (d 1684), the first woman to receive a Doctor of Philosophy degree (1678) and Maria Agnesi (d 1799), the first woman to become professor of mathematics, who was appointed by Pope Benedict XIV as early as 1750.

The Galileo episode is probably one of the most misunderstood, and the catholic church was a bit maligned for it IMHO. They didn't object to his findings, they believed him. What they objected to was him going public with them without going through them first, they figured that the public needed time to adjust to the idea and the church was in a better position to handle it.

And yes, the church did set up a lot of scientific research later on. To this day the Catholic church deserves credit as being a Christian denomination that doesn't fight against the science of evolutionary biology, they accept evolution.

 :o FFS
Your only married 5mins are going soft already Eammon!

Squaw valley... nice..btw

12
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 01, 2018, 11:36:30 PM »
I know exactly one person my age that are religious. The show is over I’m afraid.
;)

13
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 01, 2018, 11:35:45 PM »
Catholic doctrine has formed the basis of Western morality and ethitics. It permeates the very fabric of society like it or not: law, values, etc.
Sure wasnt the great derider of Christianity Niche frustrated at that very thing.

I would savely say that the majority of Irish and Western people still adhere to the vast majority of the doctrine in how they act out their life.
Same as there are a la carte Catholics (which all Catholics are to some degree or another) you also have a la Carte anti-Catholics who say they are opposed to church teachings but actually their personal values and especially in the action we take are actually probably broadly in line with it.
Joe, are you being disingenuous?

If an atheist treats others how he/she would like to be treated, this has nothing, necessarily, to do with teachings of Catholocism. The test of an "anti-Catholic" as you put it surely isn't to disagree with all catholic teachings for the sake of it.

No... are you Esm?

A great many reckon they are anti-Catholic/christian/theist even tho they will adhere to societal norms that were instilled in society from Catholic theology.
And most if not all of these norms were instilled in society from some sort of theism or spirituality
Are you suggesting that, was it not for Catholocism, that you and I would behave with little regard for others? An atheist mother rearing her child to treat others nicely is only doing so because her ancestors were brought up in a society influenced by Catholic theology?

No I wasn't suggesting that exactly, more that we would behave differently. But that is certainly a possibility since religion is most likely the largest influence on Western societal norms we do behave in that way

And yes that's exactly an example that I was suggesting with the atheist mother, cultural traditions are very strong and are maintained through generations.
Of course she could be convincing herself that she is doing it for some other reason, (Not sure how an atheist would reason what actions would be "nice to others" are or even choice is exactly without some sort of intuitive spiritual influence, but that's another story.) but more than likely it involves societal norms which have been shaped by Catholic theology.
Let's assume you're right for the minute and that "good behaviour" can be linked back to religious teachings. What relevance does that have to people's view on Catholocism as a whole in today's society. Surely one can reject something while accepting that it has its good points?


You could hardly be anti Catholic unless you reject everything that was introduced and espoused by Catholic teaching now could you?... It would make more of an a la carte anti Catholic wouldnt it?

14
General discussion / Re: Time for a post-catholic Ireland
« on: June 01, 2018, 11:29:39 PM »
You know someone is just going to present the opposite argument and they've plenty of ammo in the last century alone.
Perhaps. But I don't think anyone can honestly stand up and say they haven't been a force for good in the world. And I can't stand by and watch while one side presents all their hate fueled arguments.
Yeah, like religion doesn't fuel hatred.

Have a look at your own postings and what you've said about "sodomy".

I gather you live in the US.

Religion is a root cause of pretty much every negative ideology in the US.

Racism - check.
Prejudice against immigrants - check.
Climate change denial - check.
Poor education - check.
Opposition to abortion - check.
Opposition to transgender rights - check.
Opposition to universal healthcare - check.
Opposition to proper social security - check.
Support for tax cuts for the rich - check.
The gun lobby - check.
Neo-conservatism - check.
The pro-Israel lobby - check.

Slavery was justified by "Christian" ideology.

Religion is undeniably an overwhelmingly negative force in the US, just as it is in Ireland.

The Catholic church opposed racism, the global diversity of the church should be an example of this

Immigration is complicated but in the USA the Catholic church supported Obamas immigration reform

The Pope keeps harping on that we aren't doing enough about climate change.

Catholic church is broadly associated with excellence in education.

Opposed to the taking of life for convenience sake obliviously

Not sure that the Catholic church has a defined position on transgenderism perhaps you know the position?

Going by the amount of hospitals ran by Catholic orders

The rest of these I find hilarious:

Catholic church supports the Gun lobby, Neo conservatism, Pro-Isreal EH?

I'm pretty sure the Catholic church was one of the earliest opponents of slavery and is probably the biggest driver in removing its acceptance both in the West and in regions were it became the dominant religion.
I didn't specify the Roman Catholic Church. I specified "religion".

US politics is divided along cultural lines. People who self-identify as "Christians" overwhelmingly vote Republican.

"Christian politics" encompasses all the issues I mention.

White evangelicals are a massive driver of racism in the US. That ties into their opposition to immigration and support for plainly abhorrent Republican positions in general. Conservative Roman Catholics in the US tend to be pretty similar in their outlook to evangelicals, as Iceman has proved.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/4/30/17301282/race-evangelicals-trump-support-gerson-atlantic-sexism-segregation-south

The Iraq War, the starting point of the utter chaos that has engulfed the Middle East since 2003, was "a mission from God", according to the man who decided to start it.

Those who supported slavery invoked their "God-given" rights.

The creation of Israel as a country, and support for it elsewhere, particularly when it comes to murder and grave human rights abuses, is driven by religious fantaticism, both among Jews and Christians who are obsessed with a 2,000 year old fantasy.

You can justify anything with religion, really, which just goes to demonstrate that it should have no place whatsoever in public life.

The thread is about Catholic church, not religion in general but tear away with your straw man

I hardly need to point out that the worst genocides in recent History have been carried out in the name of atheism, often against those who practise religion

So is the Republican party the root of all evil for you? I used to think that too but then I actually considered some of the vast points position that align with that party and discovered that the facts are way more complicated than that. Id safely say most Catholics are evenly split between the two parties in America if you want to start Rep Bad Dem good either or fallacy nonsense nonsense. Youve got another nice logical fallacy going there too that all Catholics are the same as evangelical protestants and therefore vote Republican its called the association fallacy  in case your interested

There are plenty of Jews who oppose Zionism, you do get that is Nationalism and not religion that is causing the problem in the Middle East. All of those different ethnicity lived in relative harmony for centuries under the Ottoman Empire

You can justify anything without religion also. The Catholic church along with most of the main religions of the world draw a line in the sand with morality which allows society to move forward in the understanding that most of us will stay behind that line in the sand.


15
General discussion / Re: Hayfever
« on: June 01, 2018, 07:58:16 PM »
Anyone ever tried locally produced honey I heard that may help?
But the isnt hayfever mainly caused grass pollen which bees dont go near... but still any resistance to pollen might help with other pollens


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