Ireland v Australia, Rules Test 1, Breffni Park, Saturday 19 October 2013

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Jinxy you do know Shinty isn't as taken as serious in Scotland as Hurling is in Ireland, and the main reason the Irish side is mainly made up of players from weaker Counties, is to make it more of a level playing field for the Scots, otherwise they would be hammered.

This has been discussed a few times over on the hurling forum but it's wrong to say that shinty "isn't as taken as serious in Scotland as hurling is in Ireland". It certainly doesn't have anywhere near the same nationwide support in Scotland as hurling does in Ireland, but in the shinty playing communities it means just as much to the people as hurling does in Ireland.

The second point is difficult to judge as there are so many more hurlers than there are shinty players. Ireland can pick from weaker counties and still choose some fine players. That said, the Scotland team is picked from those players who put themselves forward and commit to the thing so it's not the best pick of shinty players either, albeit there are a few in there who you would pick if you were going for the best shinty team possible.

There was actually a few years in the 90's when Ireland were picking the best hurlers and Scotland beat them every year. I don't think you can really use the match to gauge the relative strength of each nation anyway, it's not hurling and it's not shinty. The team who wins is usually the one who manage to win the battle to play their own game. It's never going to get near a proper game in either code nor could it ever mean the same to the players as success in their sport, but it gives them an international dimension and keeps alive an ancient link. No harm in it.

[Jinxy]

Oh, another thing I hate about it (before I forget) is the way the crowd cheer a 'wide' for 1 point as if it was some sort of achievement.

[Never beat the deeler]

Except of course, its not a wide, unless the team are playing Gaelic football, which they are not. If you are applying those criteria to different sports, then a try in rugby would not be a score unless they went over between the posts.

A wide would be if it went outside the 'behind' posts.

Admittedly an easier score due to the larger target area, a score none-the-less. Only awarded one point which is fair enough in a game where the winning team averages over 60 points.

[rrhf]

A mongrel of a game. It really doesn't matter if Ireland wins it or not except for the cup which could be used in something much more important and appropriate.

[nrico2006]

Big win against an Australian side which is not representative of the best AFL players.  But at the same time the Ireland team was not made up of all the best players either.

[Zulu]

Richie Hogan, Paraic Maher, Brendan Maher & Shane O'Neill are all on this years panel.
Tommy Walsh has played in it before too.
I don't remember him ranking it up there with winning an All-Ireland though.

I presume you agree players can rank achievements in their sporting careers as they see fit even if someone like yourself, who has managed few, if any of them, doesn't agree?

Secondly, getting selected for the IR series is a huge achievement as you are being recognised as one of the best footballers in Ireland and you're playing against a team consisting of many of the best players in another, similar, sport. The shinty/hurling game doesn't do that.

Oh, another thing I hate about it (before I forget) is the way the crowd cheer a 'wide' for 1 point as if it was some sort of achievement.

Most of your complaints are nonsense but this one is plain daft, fans cheering for a score what next???


So lets get this right, Jinky's lists of moans re this compromise game include:

1. Fans cheer for a score
2. Players rate being selected as one of the best achievements in their sporting lives.
3. Many Aussies aren't really into it.
4. I don't like watching it so it's shite
5. It doesn't promote either sport

Now here's a list of things that make the other compromise game just fine:

1. Players don't rate getting selected as much of an achievement
2. Many Scots and Irish aren't into it
3. I like watching it so it's great
4. It doesn't promote either sport

Well it's good to see your objection to IR is based on a logical thought process.

[J OGorman]

Oh, another thing I hate about it (before I forget) is the way the crowd cheer a 'wide' for 1 point as if it was some sort of achievement.

oh, i get your bitterness now, its NOT gaelic football you're watching. Its a hybrid of 2 DIFFERENT field sports. 

[INDIANA]

Pretty poor fare on Saturday night. The Aussies have been on the sauce since the plane landed and by all accounts have been in every pub from Limerick to Cavan and back to Dublin again.

Saw them play a practice game against a combination of club players in Dublin and they barely won. Some of them never kicked a Gaelic Football until that game and they only trained twice from that point to the first Test.

I'm tired of listening to people defending this charade as if to criticise it is an imprisionable offence.

The Aussies have no interest in it. Yet we have to listen to people criticise fixture makers for daring to fix club games that been delayed for months due to county fixtures around the same times as Test games.

If players rated it being one of the biggest achievements of their lives why do the likes of Gooch Cooper opt out of it? Because he thinks it a poor game and he's said so.. Bernard Brogan opted out too. Cluxton the same. thats 3 players who would make the best 15 in Ireland this year. Neither had club commitments.

So while we criticise the All-Australian Allstars Team for not bothering their arse to come over and play in this- when our own equivalents dont want to play in it do we have the right to? Not really.

The idea that 7 year olds around Ireland are kicking Gaelic Footballs around the back garden in the dream to play for Ireland is silly. They dream about playing for club and county. Gaelic Football is played all over the world that's what we should promote and be proud to do so.

If we're looking for international outlets- promote the game itself instead of promoting a compromise that satisfies nobody. This will go the way of the Railway Cup soon enough.

[Zulu]

I'm tired of listening to people defending this charade as if to criticise it is an imprisionable offence.

Nonsense, nobody has a problem with criticism of IR the issue is some posters are coming on here and making the same points, some of which are quite daft, over and over again. If a soccer supporter was doing the same about football or hurling your call them a WUM and say we should ignore them.

While some of your points are valid others are weak and if yhe best players continue to make themselves available and crowds are still good then I see no point in abandoning it. More to the point I fail to see why you and others get your knickers in a twist over it. It's two games and is successful in many ways.

[orangeman]

Martin Breheny– 28 October 2013

(Ireland win series 173-72 on aggregate)



IT'S simple really – Australia dispatched their weakest squad in the 29-year history of the International Rules series and were soundly thrashed by an Irish outfit which Paul Earley had prepared and structured for much sterner tests.

Whether the International Rules game has a long-term future should have nothing to do with what happened in Kingspan Breffni Park and Croke Park over the last two Saturdays, because it wasn't a battle of equals. For bizarre reasons which only the AFL can explain – and they haven't – Australia sent a team comprised of indigenous players only.

Out of their depth and left drowning in a swirling sea of incompetency, they didn't even show any of the defiant qualities which are always associated with Australian sport. It left coach Michael O'Loughlin so frustrated that he had to restrain himself before commenting on the dismal performances.

"It was like the best U-18 team playing the best U-13s. Obviously, we were the U-13s," he said. He also explained that he had been advised not to express what he really felt about the squad that had let their country down with such a gutless effort.

"Some really wise heads said to me afterwards – be careful what you say," stated the exasperated coach, who was still sufficiently honest to leave his players in no doubt as to how disgusted he was with their efforts.

"As a coach, I feel a bit ill, a bit sick. It has hurt me to the core. Some of our efforts were really flat. I guess some guys aren't able to follow instructions. Not singling anyone out, but there were some really terrible decisions made out there. We wanted to kick the ball all the time when the message was to use our hands and our leg speed.

"You've got to be able to run and carry. Some guys don't want to do that because sometimes it's hard. That's the reality of it.

"I didn't want to say anything (to the players) that I would regret in five years time. This is as flat as I've ever been. You're lost for words because you can't believe what's happening. You go through the whole thing, but it's frustrating when guys refuse to follow instructions," he said.


Harsh comments, but they were all totally accurate as Australia fumbled from crisis to crisis with no apparent means of escaping from their torment.

That's not to take away from the record-breaking Irish performance, for which Earley is entitled to huge credit. His squad selection was well thought out and he decorated that with a carefully considered tactical approach which was designed for a much higher level of opposition than Ireland encountered.

Indeed, it was a real pity that Australia didn't offer greater resistance to test an Irish squad that never had its capabilities fully stretched.

"We knew that the second game was going to be our better game.

"We had worked on a lot of the things that you saw there tonight. We weren't anything like 100pc perfect the first day, but we were much better tonight. We focused on our own game and it worked.

"Our players are professional in everything they do except getting paid.

"When we got 20 points ahead we wanted to make it 40 and when we got 40 ahead we wanted to make it 80. That's what good teams do. You never defend a lead, in my opinion, in a team game. You try to double it. The lads played right to the end. We had set certain targets for each quarter and they exceeded those targets," said Earley.

That was, indeed, the case. Taking a 22-point lead into the second game meant that Ireland were virtually certain to retain the Cormac McAnallen Cup, a target they made all the more reachable with an impressive first-half blitz, which saw them lead Australia 53-16 at the interval.

Even then, they didn't let up, stretching ever further ahead as they galloped towards the 100-point mark.

A Sean Cavanagh 'over' in the final quarter took them through the century barrier and on their way to a 116-point total.

Ireland led 78-25 heading into a final quarter which nobody really wanted as it was quite clear by then that there was nothing left in this series for the Australians.

They scored two goals in the final period, but Ireland countered with a goal from Paul Conroy and no fewer than seven 'overs'.

The one-sided nature of this series inevitably raises a question about its future, but, as Earley pointed out, it's all about the quality of the competing teams.

On this occasion, Australia sent a weak squad which never came close to a well-drilled Irish team.

"It's important this continues because the players want it. There are issues with the availability of Australian players, but instead of finding reasons why it shouldn't continue, we need to look at ways of making it work, including the Australians having their top players," said Earley.

O'Loughlin was equally adamant that the series should continue, but clearly the Australians need to sort themselves out after this debacle.

His immediate challenge was to try to explain why it had all gone so wrong.

"It's not the team that I know and the players that I know. Full credit to Ireland – I watched them in awe. The series should go ahead regardless of what happened tonight. You can imagine how flat our guys are after a margin like that. We started well, but in the end, it was all huff and puff.

"This is one of the most disappointing moments I have had. But you have to stand up and face the music – that's what these players have to do now," he said.

Suffice to say, that if the series continues, few of this squad will wear the Australian jersey again.

[Jinxy]

Martin Breheny has previously criticised fixture makers for forcing players to choose between club or country and now he reckons the decision on the future of the series 'should have nothing to do with what happened in Kingspan Breffni Park and Croke Park over the last two Saturdays'.
He really wants to see the series continue it would seem.
I wonder why?

[Zulu]

No less illogical than your own anti-IR stance.

[INDIANA]

I'm tired of listening to people defending this charade as if to criticise it is an imprisionable offence.

Nonsense, nobody has a problem with criticism of IR the issue is some posters are coming on here and making the same points, some of which are quite daft, over and over again. If a soccer supporter was doing the same about football or hurling your call them a WUM and say we should ignore them.

While some of your points are valid others are weak and if yhe best players continue to make themselves available and crowds are still good then I see no point in abandoning it. More to the point I fail to see why you and others get your knickers in a twist over it. It's two games and is successful in many ways.

But the best players aren't making themselves available so your point is redundant on that Zulu.

I know of three other Dublin players who wwill win all-stars this year who also turned it down because they couldn't be bothered with it.

If the All-Australian team and our best Gaelic Footballers don't want to play in it- why bother?

[rodney trotter]

Which players Indianna,? Brogan was carrying a knock so couldn't play. He has played before and probably would have made himself available again. Cluxton was also carrying an injury. Cooper turned it down in the past but was interested in playin this year only for club action...
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breakingnews.ie%2Fsport%2Fgaa%2Finjuries-rule-out-cluxton-and-brogan-for-international-rules-609068.html&ei=_4ZuUs-jCuTX7Aan0IAY&usg=AFQjCNHxYhZLiZouCUsi9ZGUrJaET0-RQw&bvm=bv.55123115,d.ZGU

Michael Murphy , Jack McCaffrey, Aidan Walsh, Paul Flynn, Cavanagh, Aidan O Shea are some of the biggest names in Gaa.
Saying the big names don't make themselves available isn't accurate

[Zulu]

Ah come on Indiana, all the players you mentioned have played in the IR, Cooper isn't really suited to the game and has club commitments so we're talking about 2 players on this occasion only. I don't think Bernard Brogan or Cluxton will refuse every invite should the IR continue. I'll have to take your word on the other 3 players but even if they are All Stars they would necessarily make the an Irish team.

I don't disagree with your final point however, if it turns out that neither country can get their best (or close to) team out then it will lose it's appeal and be worthless but that hasn't quite happened yet and I would give it another series or two to establish the likely future pattern. I wouldn't deny that it seems to be a fading concept but it's still far superior to the shinty/hurling compromise but I hear nobody complaining about that.