Pay~for~Play

[muppet]

So you are to be allowed to express your view, but Joe Brolly is not to be allowed to express his because he's a former player (who, remember didn't get paid for playing) nor I to express my view that yours is horseshite. Forgive the robust language, but we're all big boys.

There's no point in going around in circles, so one last time - I can see no equivalence between being paid for playing games and being paid for journalism. One breaches the amateur rules of the GAA, the other is completely irrelevant to them. Likewise, I have no problem with players making millions from their GAA profile, provided they are not being paid for playing football and hurling and thereby exposing the games to all the associated evils of pay for play - transfers, spivs, agents, you know yourself - just look at soccer.

Should Liam Hayes have refused payment for his journalism when he was a player?

Liam Hayes was and is a journalist and deals with a large subject matter. I've no problem with him expressing any opinion and I reserve the right to agree or disagree with him on anything he writes. He has been an editor of a newspaper. We both know you understood my post and both know mentioning Hayes was only to impress others, not to further any debate with me.

Joe Brolly talks only about Gaelic Football. This is because he was a Gaelic Footballer. He has become the banner opponent of the players and uses his profile gained as a player to attack the players. He does this while probably doing exactly what he argues against i.e. making money because of playing Gaa. I find that position hypocritical, of course if it emerges that he gives all the money to charity or something then that would be different.

The real problem here is that the argument has become polarized. The anti-GPA lobby have adopted a 'you either with us or against us' position. The GPA lobby have circled the wagons as well.

I am against pay for play, not based on a hopelessly outdated romantic notion that the Gaa is an amateur association, but simply because:

1) the Gaa couldn't possibly afford it,
2) it would transform the structure of our competitions to something unacceptable to all of us;

All I ask is that Mr Brolly publically states how much he makes from being a former player every time he attacks current players looking for money, for transparency like.

[ONeill]

Can you not even accept that a daily allowance for personal spended of £215 is excessive, when I go on holiday with the wife and kids, if I was to budget that amount, after board and meals, it would be a short stay!

They don't call you bigpaul for nothing.

[bigpaul]

Can you not even accept that a daily allowance for personal spended of £215 is excessive, when I go on holiday with the wife and kids, if I was to budget that amount, after board and meals, it would be a short stay!

They don't call you bigpaul for nothing.

Don't you be getting personal!

[pedro]

I've no doubt Tyrone playersgot money after the 2003 AI. As i said earlier, I have no problem with that, the players deserve it. Again, this isn't only done by the TCB, I know many other county players have gotten cash in hand on holidays, whether that is money from the county board, sponsors, Club Tyrone-type supporters clubs I don't know. There is no doubt that the county board have either approved it or have turned a blind eye. Right or wrong, these players are getting money given to them simply because they are county players and/or they have been successful. Again, I think the players deserve it so I have absoluely no problems with it. What I do have a problem with is the fact that some county boards (our own voted against the grants too), Of One Belief etc. have been so vociferous in their arguments against the grants when  similar 'payments' or 'expenses' given to players simply because of their success, their status as county players, payments to club managers etc. have been made right under noses.

When the Tyrone CB first struck their sponsorship deal with Rockwell, it included a clause where Rockwell would pay an additional fee if Tyrone were to win the All-Ireland title. I can't remember the exact fee, but it was easily six figures sterling. Maybe its perfectly possible that the county board used some of this money to "top up" the spending money for the squad of players to allow themselves to enjoy the holiday more?

Again, fair play for negotiating that deal. However, if that was the case, is it not still a payment to the players? A bit of a pedantic argument, I know but some similarly pedantic arguments have been made in defence of the anti-grants brigade.

Does it reward success? Yeah, but we all do for something that is successful for teams at all levels, wherever it involves money, the glamour of the location or anything else.

Is this not exactly what the grants/expenses are? Giving the players more money depending on how successful they are?

[pedro]

On other note, and I may be completely wrong on this, but was there not a fundraising night of some sort in aid of Brian McGuigan when he got injured? I have only heard about this and I am completely wrong but can someone clarify this/

[bigpaul]

Yes there was,but that would be a totally seperate matter. Fundraisers for player welfare would be a long established and welcome facet of GAA life.

[pedro]

Yes there was,but that would be a totally seperate matter. Fundraisers for player welfare would be a long established and welcome facet of GAA life.

I wasn't sure if it was true but just wondering whether the offering of money in this case was against the GAA ethos and if it had any relavance to this thread. It's late and I'm rambling, probably clutching at straws!

[bigpaul]

You're allowed one ramble per night, since it's GAA related, we'll classify it as a 'sleepwalk', won't really count then!

[muppet]

Yes there was,but that would be a totally seperate matter. Fundraisers for player welfare would be a long established and welcome facet of GAA life.

I wasn't sure if it was true but just wondering whether the offering of money in this case was against the GAA ethos and if it had any relavance to this thread. It's late and I'm rambling, probably clutching at straws!

In all fairness that was about a player's loss of income etc due to injury. It is almost the opposite to what this thread about.

[Hardy]

We both know you understood my post and both know mentioning Hayes was only to impress others, not to further any debate with me.

Well I know what I know. I haven't a clue what you know and much less what you mean. One of the things I know is that this is the end of the discussion if you can't address the issue and argue your point without acting the maggot like this.

[bigpaul]

I don't think I have to prove anything, what I am saying is that it was a strange 'fact' to quote in opposing any form of payment to players. If he is telling the truth it exposes more inconsistencies on the part of the TCB and one of  the founder members of 'Of One Belief'. Anyway I think we are moving closer to agreement all the time, another three hours and we could be close to signing a deal!

[pedro]

Yes there was,but that would be a totally seperate matter. Fundraisers for player welfare would be a long established and welcome facet of GAA life.

I wasn't sure if it was true but just wondering whether the offering of money in this case was against the GAA ethos and if it had any relavance to this thread. It's late and I'm rambling, probably clutching at straws!

In all fairness that was about a player's loss of income etc due to injury. It is almost the opposite to what this thread about.

Yeah, you're right, I have no idea what I was trying to get at there! I'll use my sleepwalk card on that one!  

However, despite Tram's arguments that he can't prove if or how much money was given to the Tyrone players the fact is that players have been given money (approved by their county boards) to spend as they please. I just find it a case of total double-standards when the same county boards are so vociferous in their arguments against the players getting any money in the form of 'expenses'. I think we all know that these payments aren't expenses are done so as they don't contravene the amateur ethos, something which the players 'holiday money' is in risk of.

[bigpaul]

When the Tyrone CB first struck their sponsorship deal with Rockwell, it included a clause where Rockwell would pay an additional fee if Tyrone were to win the All-Ireland title. I can't remember the exact fee, but it was easily six figures sterling. Maybe its perfectly possible that the county board used some of this money to "top up" the spending money for the squad of players to allow themselves to enjoy the holiday more? If so, that would probably explain it. Does it reward success? Yeah, but we all do for something that is successful for teams at all levels, wherever it involves money, the glamour of the location or anything else.

How does this quote sit with the general tenet of your argument?

[pedro]

However, despite Tram's arguments that he can't prove if or how much money was given to the Tyrone players the fact is that players have been given money (approved by their county boards) to spend as they please.

Please prove that this is a fact via a verifiable source.

PM'd you with specific details and teams I know of. Please don't try and turn a blind eye to it. It is a fact that some teams give players cash as spending money on these teams holidays, I am not making it up to suit my agenda!

On the point that the GAA give players spending money on the International rules trips, they also do it on the foreign Railway Cup trips. To me, that is still a payment of cash to players and, strictly speaking is breaking the rules (I am open to correction on this though). Maybe it is a case of the rule being more than a guideline and should not be enforced literally. OR the GAA deems it not to be that big of a deal. That could be more worrying for some people here

[pedro]

My own club U10 team last year was unbeaten and they were taken on a trip away for the day with everything covered. Its been a few years since past U10 teams were taken away for the day rather than just have a presentation day, so they were rewarded for their success. Ditto many club teams that go on team holidays for winning championships which is now a common occurrence.

Sure is that not the same, in principal, as the Tyrone holiday? They got all their expenses covered yet they got x amount of money on top of it. It's the samme thing as your club giving each of those u10 players, say, £100 as well as the aformentioned trip. Monetarily rewarding them for their success, basically