£150 per hour - not enough?

[Rois]

Ok I take your point to an extent delboy but there's no lower limit on charges, so the market rate is set by the price people are willing to pay.   

If it isn't an incredibly skillful job (like rocket science), why don't more people represent themselves, like Jerome, and drive the market price down?  I would argue that good barristers are incredibly skillful.  Sure without the best barrister in Tyrone, Ricey wouldn't have three All Ireland medals.   

[lynchbhoy]

Doubt that very much - as the onus is by Law Society regulations on the solicitor to pay the Barrister once they have instructed them. Its actually the Barristers fee that is guaranteed - not the solicitors. For example in one such case - client didnt pay the Barristers £2300 fee - solicitors have to pay it out of their office account to the Barrister as they employed the Barrister - its their job to pay the Barrister whether they recover the fees or not. It can be long drawn out process though for Barristers waiting on their money if the case has to be taxed and/ or if the client doesnt pay up.

correct, but maybe things are more stringent in the six counties - I have to admit that I am speaking about the south here !
I know of (from my friend) one case a couple of years ago where a barrister was brought in to advise and work on a company takeover, after it was over, the solicitors firm put in for their costs, forgot to contact said barrister to ask for his charges, and when he queried this a couple of months after, was told by the solicitirs that it was too late as the bill had been sent to the company !
OK this is different as it wasnt a court case, but this is an example and one that is true. I know that my friend has difficulty getting money from solicitirs at times and his colleages accross the board also - esp that poor hoor thats stung for €50k !



Correct BC1 !!

[Rav67]

Doubt that very much - as the onus is by Law Society regulations on the solicitor to pay the Barrister once they have instructed them. Its actually the Barristers fee that is guaranteed - not the solicitors. For example in one such case - client didnt pay the Barristers £2300 fee - solicitors have to pay it out of their office account to the Barrister as they employed the Barrister - its their job to pay the Barrister whether they recover the fees or not. It can be long drawn out process though for Barristers waiting on their money if the case has to be taxed and/ or if the client doesnt pay up.

correct, but maybe things are more stringent in the six counties - I have to admit that I am speaking about the south here !
I know of (from my friend) one case a couple of years ago where a barrister was brought in to advise and work on a company takeover, after it was over, the solicitors firm put in for their costs, forgot to contact said barrister to ask for his charges, and when he queried this a couple of months after, was told by the solicitirs that it was too late as the bill had been sent to the company !
OK this is different as it wasnt a court case, but this is an example and one that is true. I know that my friend has difficulty getting money from solicitirs at times and his colleages accross the board also - esp that poor hoor thats stung for €50k !



Correct BC1 !!

Surely if the £50k was reasonably and legitimately incurred then the Barrister coupld simply sue the solicitor for the amount due and get a judgment against him if he didn't pay up?  Most solicitor firms are partnerships so they partners would be personally liable for the money.

Disciplinary action could follow as well if a report was made to the regulatory authority.

[delboy]

Ok I take your point to an extent delboy but there's no lower limit on charges, so the market rate is set by the price people are willing to pay.   

If it isn't an incredibly skillful job (like rocket science), why don't more people represent themselves, like Jerome, and drive the market price down?  I would argue that good barristers are incredibly skillful.  Sure without the best barrister in Tyrone, Ricey wouldn't have three All Ireland medals.   

Thats a good question, for one the judicary hate self representation, they don't want to deal with 'amateurs', they much prefer the status quo/cartel system in place.

I still say it isn't rocket science, however its not really feasible for the average person to teach themselves law on the the off chance that they will someday have to represent themselves in court (thankfully most of us will probably never have to set foot in a court). Does that suddenly mean that someone in that profession is worth +£150 an hour, i don't think so.

You have to ask yourself do they command these sums of money because the job/training is so difficult that only a tiny fraction of those applicants lining up with their 1st class degrees in law would be capable of doing the job or if they command those sums because the number of people accepted is strictly limited and controlled so as not to swamp the market and drive down prices.
I'll let the jury decide on that one 
   

[heganboy]

this is capitalism- this is how most of the western world's economies work. If you think that you can do the job - go and train for it, and then you too can complain if you only get 150 an hour.

Its fair to say that the system doesn't compensate people in accordance to the benefit they bring to society- but as I keep hearing life isn't fair.

The market is closed and controlled only to the extent that there is a high barrier to entry, a law degree and sufficient training, pretty much like any other job out there where you want to be pretty sure that the person doing it is sufficiently good at it as it has a high impact on your life when you need them.

[lynchbhoy]

Doubt that very much - as the onus is by Law Society regulations on the solicitor to pay the Barrister once they have instructed them. Its actually the Barristers fee that is guaranteed - not the solicitors. For example in one such case - client didnt pay the Barristers £2300 fee - solicitors have to pay it out of their office account to the Barrister as they employed the Barrister - its their job to pay the Barrister whether they recover the fees or not. It can be long drawn out process though for Barristers waiting on their money if the case has to be taxed and/ or if the client doesnt pay up.

correct, but maybe things are more stringent in the six counties - I have to admit that I am speaking about the south here !
I know of (from my friend) one case a couple of years ago where a barrister was brought in to advise and work on a company takeover, after it was over, the solicitors firm put in for their costs, forgot to contact said barrister to ask for his charges, and when he queried this a couple of months after, was told by the solicitirs that it was too late as the bill had been sent to the company !
OK this is different as it wasnt a court case, but this is an example and one that is true. I know that my friend has difficulty getting money from solicitirs at times and his colleages accross the board also - esp that poor hoor thats stung for €50k !



Correct BC1 !!

Surely if the £50k was reasonably and legitimately incurred then the Barrister coupld simply sue the solicitor for the amount due and get a judgment against him if he didn't pay up?  Most solicitor firms are partnerships so they partners would be personally liable for the money.

Disciplinary action could follow as well if a report was made to the regulatory authority.

I thik the €50k was made up from a few diff sol firms afaik not just the one !

sure all the solicitors have to do is claim they didnt get paid either (have heard this is becomming more common - even if they did actually get the money for said case!!!)
looks like barristers are he new builders - they cant get paid from the subbies !!

[delboy]

this is capitalism- this is how most of the western world's economies work. If you think that you can do the job - go and train for it, and then you too can complain if you only get 150 an hour.

Its fair to say that the system doesn't compensate people in accordance to the benefit they bring to society- but as I keep hearing life isn't fair.

The market is closed and controlled only to the extent that there is a high barrier to entry, a law degree and sufficient training, pretty much like any other job out there where you want to be pretty sure that the person doing it is sufficiently good at it as it has a high impact on your life when you need them.

Im sorry but i don't agree with you, its the antithesis of capatalism since it isn't an open market, its a tightly controlled and regulated cartel run for the benefit of those employed in the profession.

As an analogy lets say the sparks of the country came together and decided to tightly control the number of people trained to become electricans in such a stringent way as to say only the top 1 % of candidates were accepted for training, within a very short time demand for electricians would outstrip supply and they could command astronomical amounts of pay all whilst claiming they were looking out for our best interests by employing only the very best.

Of course you could say cheap sparks from other countries would undecut them, but to keep the analogy the same lets say the sparks associaton had the ear of government and argued that our electrical system was so different from these other countries that those coming from these countries would have to undertake a conversion course,  entry to the course would of course be controlled by you guessed it, the sparks association.

This is generally speaking the positon most of the so called professions have us in at the moment. Capatalims my arse.

Of course you could waffle some stuff about the way of the world and how you to could train as one of the elite electricians and then you to could complain about only getting +£150 an hour 

[Rois]

I still say it isn't rocket science, however its not really feasible for the average person to teach themselves law on the the off chance that they will someday have to represent themselves in court (thankfully most of us will probably never have to set foot in a court). Does that suddenly mean that someone in that profession is worth +£150 an hour, i don't think so.

Ah c'mon, I'm sure the vast majority of us could turn our hand to a lot of things if we were trained to.  That's what happens in the world - any old numpty could draw up their own accounts, fix their own car or cut their own hair (another point - hairdressers are often paid that amount or close to it!) but when something pops up that is slightly different from how it's been done before, the said numpty will be lost because they don't have a breadth of training to deal with the unknown. 

My hairdresser is paid about half the £150 but at the same time, the results of their work will not materially affect my life.  The same cannot always be said about a barrister's work.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

I think its worth pointing out that there are a large proportion of younger barristers who have to seriously struggle for a long time before they make any sort of comfortable living. They have to pay thousands out up front in training and professional fees to enter a profession with no guaranteed work and even less guaranteed payment. I take the point that every profession has issues with unpaid bills but it is a genuine difficulty for barristers.

Yes, there are high fees paid to a percentage of barristers but there are also a large proportion of the Young Bar who genuinely struggle to make ends meet and have to rely on the generousity of friends and family and / or bank loans just to make ends meet. I say that not as an attempt to garner pity as young barristers know the reality of the profession before they enter it but simply as an assertion of the facts of the matter.

[thebigfella]

Delboy what do you work at?

It must not be rocket science anyway when you can spend most of your time on here talking shite about the value of certain professions and persons employed   

[delboy]

I still say it isn't rocket science, however its not really feasible for the average person to teach themselves law on the the off chance that they will someday have to represent themselves in court (thankfully most of us will probably never have to set foot in a court). Does that suddenly mean that someone in that profession is worth +£150 an hour, i don't think so.

Ah c'mon, I'm sure the vast majority of us could turn our hand to a lot of things if we were trained to.  That's what happens in the world - any old numpty could draw up their own accounts, fix their own car or cut their own hair (another point - hairdressers are often paid that amount or close to it!) but when something pops up that is slightly different from how it's been done before, the said numpty will be lost because they don't have a breadth of training to deal with the unknown. 

My hairdresser is paid about half the £150 but at the same time, the results of their work will not materially affect my life.  The same cannot always be said about a barrister's work.

For a start I doubt very much your hairdresser is paid £75 an hour is that was the case the courts would be empty and all the massive houses around helens bay etc would be filled with hairdressers and not as it is with lawyers and barristers living of the back of public enquries and the public purse. The salon owner may well be living in helens bay but thats a different matter.

As you say we could all cut our own hair if we choose to or we could do as you do and pay £150 for a hair cut, or you could do as i do and pay a tenner for a haircut, you pay 150 because you deem it to be worth that amount, i pay a tenner because thats what i deem it to be worth for a haircut, that variablity in pricing is testament to a proper and open market catering for all customers, this patently does not exist in the legal world, unless you can point me in the direction of someone willing to work for a tenner an hour (fat chance). To make a fair comparison you would have to assume that hairdressers had formed a cartel and it was 150 pound a pop for a haircut or a do it at home with a pair of scissors and hope for the best.
Thats not the case so it doesn't really hold any water.

[delboy]

Delboy what do you work at?

It must not be rocket science anyway when you can spend most of your time on here talking shite about the value of certain professions and persons employed   

Well its something that requires at least as many years training as a barrister, have you never heard of a days holiday you cheeky fupper 

[thebigfella]

Delboy what do you work at?

It must not be rocket science anyway when you can spend most of your time on here talking shite about the value of certain professions and persons employed   

Well its something that requires more years training than a barrister, have you never heard of a days holiday you cheeky fupper 

Fcuk me thats worse spending a days holiday arguing on here. Certainly you don't work hard enough or you would be making better use of it 

[delboy]

Delboy what do you work at?

It must not be rocket science anyway when you can spend most of your time on here talking shite about the value of certain professions and persons employed   

Well its something that requires more years training than a barrister, have you never heard of a days holiday you cheeky fupper 

Fcuk me thats worse spending a days holiday arguing on here. Certainly you don't work hard enough or you would be making better use of it 

Circumstances dictate that im house bond at the moment, its either talking shite on here or watching loose women on daytime TV 
Think i might fire up the xbox for another bash at oblivion though.

[heganboy]

Of course you could waffle some stuff about the way of the world and how you to could train as one of the elite electricians and then you to could complain about only getting +£150 an hour 

or i could go and train at something that pays me sufficiently that I don't bitch about other people's wages- oh wait...