The DUP thread

[johnnycool]

It's all gotten a bit murky for those cops at the Sean Grahams anniversary as they initially said they didn't know what the gathering was for or anything about the Sean Grahams massacre but the radio recordings suggest different as they were told exactly what was going on.

It won't be the first time a member of the PSNI/RUC told a few porkies in a court of law so little wonder these young recruits ably assisted by the Police Federation didn't think it was an issue to continue to do so!

[imtommygunn]

They blatantly knew about that.

[NAG1]

It didn't sit right at the time and now we are starting find out why.

It is just shambles after shambles, it would actually be quite entertaining were it not so sinister.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

I would be amazed if new recruits are not being given a bit of a history lesson about the place. Out of all that has come out in the last few days and all that the media are spouting, the one reason I would be sacking the chief constable would be on that, that new recruits claim not to have a clue about major incidents that happened during the troubles and that are still raw for many in the community. Is that not the biggest scandal here? Is that not a rather fundamental flaw to policing in NI?

[seafoid]

The PSNI story is another dead cat.
This relentless distraction must be a feature of post conflict societies in Bosnia etc.

[imtommygunn]

It didn't sit right at the time and now we are starting find out why.

It is just shambles after shambles, it would actually be quite entertaining were it not so sinister.

Definitely that ormeau road one did not sit right at all.

Then they come out with two tier policing   

[johnnycool]

The PSNI story is another dead cat.
This relentless distraction must be a feature of post conflict societies in Bosnia etc.

The PSNI are limping from one disaster to the next, removing Simon Byrne as head won't change the nature of that organisation as we see how they walk alongside vigilante groups in Newtownards and much more....

[Snapchap]

I would be amazed if new recruits are not being given a bit of a history lesson about the place. Out of all that has come out in the last few days and all that the media are spouting, the one reason I would be sacking the chief constable would be on that, that new recruits claim not to have a clue about major incidents that happened during the troubles and that are still raw for many in the community. Is that not the biggest scandal here? Is that not a rather fundamental flaw to policing in NI?

As referenced by another poster above, and contrary to the statements provided by the two cops in question, court documents show that they actually were told over the radio what the gathering was. So they KNEW what it was. They KNEW it was a commemoration. The could no doubt clearly that see those in attendance were socially distanced and masked, and they still made the decision to go in and throw their weight around and make a few arrests.
The Police Ombusdmans investigation into the Sean Grahams massacre confirmed that the RUC colluded with the UDA in the attack. 29 years later, we see the psni turn up to intimidate and arrest the families at an anniversary commemoration. One of those arrested at the commemoration was Mark Sykes, a man who was shot five times during the massacre, and who's brother-in-law was killed. As if that weren't bad enough, it was set against the optics of a few days previous, where masked UDA men walked through a council estate as the psni stood aside and watched.

[seafoid]

The PSNI story is another dead cat.
This relentless distraction must be a feature of post conflict societies in Bosnia etc.

The PSNI are limping from one disaster to the next, removing Simon Byrne as head won't change the nature of that organisation as we see how they walk alongside vigilante groups in Newtownards and much more....

It's that interacting with the DUP's problems. There is no sign of Stormont being restored, meanwhile. It's no wonder the South gets all the investment.

[gallsman]

I would be amazed if new recruits are not being given a bit of a history lesson about the place. Out of all that has come out in the last few days and all that the media are spouting, the one reason I would be sacking the chief constable would be on that, that new recruits claim not to have a clue about major incidents that happened during the troubles and that are still raw for many in the community. Is that not the biggest scandal here? Is that not a rather fundamental flaw to policing in NI?

As referenced by another poster above, and contrary to the statements provided by the two cops in question, court documents show that they actually were told over the radio what the gathering was. So they KNEW what it was. They KNEW it was a commemoration. The could no doubt clearly that see those in attendance were socially distanced and masked, and they still made the decision to go in and throw their weight around and make a few arrests.
The Police Ombusdmans investigation into the Sean Grahams massacre confirmed that the RUC colluded with the UDA in the attack. 29 years later, we see the psni turn up to intimidate and arrest the families at an anniversary commemoration. One of those arrested at the commemoration was Mark Sykes, a man who was shot five times during the massacre, and who's brother-in-law was killed. As if that weren't bad enough, it was set against the optics of a few days previous, where masked UDA men walked through a council estate as the psni stood aside and watched.

Playing devil's advocate, the fella Nolan had on the last couple of days argued that the footage clearly showed that they were asked to come over by a member of the crowd whilst in their car. Both things can't be true.

[Snapchap]

I would be amazed if new recruits are not being given a bit of a history lesson about the place. Out of all that has come out in the last few days and all that the media are spouting, the one reason I would be sacking the chief constable would be on that, that new recruits claim not to have a clue about major incidents that happened during the troubles and that are still raw for many in the community. Is that not the biggest scandal here? Is that not a rather fundamental flaw to policing in NI?

As referenced by another poster above, and contrary to the statements provided by the two cops in question, court documents show that they actually were told over the radio what the gathering was. So they KNEW what it was. They KNEW it was a commemoration. The could no doubt clearly that see those in attendance were socially distanced and masked, and they still made the decision to go in and throw their weight around and make a few arrests.
The Police Ombusdmans investigation into the Sean Grahams massacre confirmed that the RUC colluded with the UDA in the attack. 29 years later, we see the psni turn up to intimidate and arrest the families at an anniversary commemoration. One of those arrested at the commemoration was Mark Sykes, a man who was shot five times during the massacre, and who's brother-in-law was killed. As if that weren't bad enough, it was set against the optics of a few days previous, where masked UDA men walked through a council estate as the psni stood aside and watched.

Playing devil's advocate, the fella Nolan had on the last couple of days argued that the footage clearly showed that they were asked to come over by a member of the crowd whilst in their car. Both things can't be true.

Who's "the fella on Nolan"? Is he suggesting the people, mid-commemoration, took the time to ask the cops to come over and arrest a few of them?

Mark Sykes, who as I say was shot 5 times during the massacre, and who lost his brother-in-law, was arrested and left handcuffed in a police car for two and a half hours for attending the commemoration. He remains, to this day, the only person that the police have ever arrested in relation to a massacre that the police themselves colluded in.

[seafoid]

These things paralyse the North every so often. It is not surprising . The hurt and the pain of the Troubles was never really addressed properly and so many people suffered.
Some institution led by a independent credible outsider accepted by both sides with a role to address this and positioned above politics  might help. The current system does not work.

[Orior]

If the PSNI had interrupted a memorial to the Shankill bomb would the DUP have waited until now to call for the Chief Constable's head?

Can a new Chief Constable be appointed while the DUP have closed Stormont?

[JPGJOHNNYG]

If the PSNI had interrupted a memorial to the Shankill bomb would the DUP have waited until now to call for the Chief Constable's head?

Can a new Chief Constable be appointed while the DUP have closed Stormont?

At the minute no, needs stormont to rubber stamp a new CC

[gallsman]

Who's "the fella on Nolan"? Is he suggesting the people, mid-commemoration, took the time to ask the cops to come over and arrest a few of them?

Mark Sykes, who as I say was shot 5 times during the massacre, and who lost his brother-in-law, was arrested and left handcuffed in a police car for two and a half hours for attending the commemoration. He remains, to this day, the only person that the police have ever arrested in relation to a massacre that the police themselves colluded in.

John Burrows, a former PSNI officer "with a background in professional ethics" who testified during the case.

The suggestion, as I understand it from judge's view of the bodycam evidence, is that the memorial had concluded. The speakers had finished, people had left and equipment was being dissasmbled. There are clearly semantics at play here but if the video evidence is as such, it's easy for them to argue the claim they arrested Sykes "during the memorial" is inaccurate. Their presence, obviously, was known during the memorial itself.

It's all gotten a bit murky for those cops at the Sean Grahams anniversary as they initially said they didn't know what the gathering was for or anything about the Sean Grahams massacre but the radio recordings suggest different as they were told exactly what was going on.

It won't be the first time a member of the PSNI/RUC told a few porkies in a court of law so little wonder these young recruits ably assisted by the Police Federation didn't think it was an issue to continue to do so!

Are the audio/video clips themselves to corroborate this point of view available? The judgment, if you've read it, makes reference to an officer on the radio having mentioned Sean Grahams and another referring to the "30 year anniversary of the bookie shooting there". I don't find the suggestion that the two beat cops (7 and 10 months on the job, and one of them a Catholic from the South) hadn't the slightest clue about either the massacre itself or the memorial in any way implausible. A few bits of chatter on the radio during the moment itself making reference to events they neither know of the existence or significance of wasn't going to give them a history lesson.