Who will stop this Dublin team from 4, 5, 6 or more in a row?

[Lar Naparka]

The first unbeatable team I was aware of was Kerry. The second was Liverpool. The third was Shamrock Rovers. And the greatest of these was Shamrock Rovers. Because they were the biggest fish in the smallest pond and they kept on winning. They had an engine that consisted of Byrnes. You would get a pain in your hole listening to Philip Green reporting on them. Eventually the regime collapsed.

Liverpool were a machine. They could win European Cups. You could get Liverpool pyjamas in Galway. That is how good they were. If someone had gone into the playground and said Liverpool would not win the league for 25 years all the lads would have laughed. Ha ha. Very funny.

Kerry won 4 in a row but suffered 2 ambushes in 82 and 83. You were watching the 82 final with your father. The goal was unbelievable. It was like the 96 hurling final. If Offaly are in the mood they can do that sort of thing. Bring a team down to earth.

The 83 mess allowed the Dubs to win a rare Sam.
Kerry came back for another 3 but they could go no further. They were useless in the early 90's.  That is why the Ulster teams could make hay.

Anyone who thinks Dublin will reign for ever and ever hallelujah hallelujah should read up on Prussia. Hegemony is never permanent. Only stupidity is permanent.

Absolutely correct

You got it in one!
God love poor Seafóid, he is living up to his name. HIs analogies are colourful but very wide of the mark.
Unless the political and economic faces of Ireland change very dramatically, Dublin will keep getting stronger in every sense while gap between it and the rest of the country will continue to widen.
It was a case of primus inter pares, first among equals, for the examples he quoted but when it comes to Dublin vs The Rest, there is one very important difference: Greater Dublin has 40% of the Republic's population right now but official estimates expect that percentage to rise to 50% by 2040.
Along with its 40% of the people, Dublin has 50% of the nation's resources, according to Simon Coveney, and the imbalance will continue to increase as time goes by.
One team to represent half the country's population is unlikely to be toppled from its preeminent position any time soon.

Lar, the economic system IS falling apart. Why do you think interest rates are on the floor?
We need a new system. One that works for everyone. Not just a few nihilists in BAC .
We also need to save the pension schemes.

You are correct, the economic situation is dire and getting worse. Loads of factors to blame but damn the cause, worry about the effect. The east coast region is prospering- to a large degree anyway.
Population is rapidly increasing rapidly and this will only happen where employment is plentiful and income is rising.
People in their hundreds are migrating from west to east and the social infrastructure and every other fecking one you can think of is breaking  is doing the same.
Money underpins all aspects of society and Gaelic football is included.
You can have the most talented footballers, excellent managers and be spoilt for choice when it comes to centres of excellence and all weather pitches and the likes but they all come with a hefty price tag.
You will only get those if you have a large population to create a demand for such services and Dublin with close of half the population of the Republic leads the way here. Mayo is staying with them at the moment because of donations coming in from exiles overseas. If they had to depend on central funding, they'd never get out of Connacht.
There is one major reason why I won't accept that the present Dubs side are better than Kerry's five in a row and that comes down to money.
They may be just as talented and I've no problem with that but the gap between Dublin and the peloton is widening all the time, whereas Kerry had to take on counties with far greater numbers, facilities and, yes, money.
There is bound to be an odd break in their never ending sequence but those will never be enough to prevent the gap from widening.The future is all blue, I'm afraid- at least as long as the GAA  remains a relevant entity in Irish society.

[Lar Naparka]

Before the money was it population? No it wasn't. So why is population being used now.... ah I see, because the Dublin footballers are winning All Irelands, we need excuses.

No blinkers here.

Leitrim poor argument.

you sound like you are trying to convince yourself

And making a damn bad job of it. This troll was here last year under another name and was no better then than now.
Ignore the fecker.

[seafoid]

The first unbeatable team I was aware of was Kerry. The second was Liverpool. The third was Shamrock Rovers. And the greatest of these was Shamrock Rovers. Because they were the biggest fish in the smallest pond and they kept on winning. They had an engine that consisted of Byrnes. You would get a pain in your hole listening to Philip Green reporting on them. Eventually the regime collapsed.

Liverpool were a machine. They could win European Cups. You could get Liverpool pyjamas in Galway. That is how good they were. If someone had gone into the playground and said Liverpool would not win the league for 25 years all the lads would have laughed. Ha ha. Very funny.

Kerry won 4 in a row but suffered 2 ambushes in 82 and 83. You were watching the 82 final with your father. The goal was unbelievable. It was like the 96 hurling final. If Offaly are in the mood they can do that sort of thing. Bring a team down to earth.

The 83 mess allowed the Dubs to win a rare Sam.
Kerry came back for another 3 but they could go no further. They were useless in the early 90's.  That is why the Ulster teams could make hay.

Anyone who thinks Dublin will reign for ever and ever hallelujah hallelujah should read up on Prussia. Hegemony is never permanent. Only stupidity is permanent.

Absolutely correct

You got it in one!
God love poor Seafóid, he is living up to his name. HIs analogies are colourful but very wide of the mark.
Unless the political and economic faces of Ireland change very dramatically, Dublin will keep getting stronger in every sense while gap between it and the rest of the country will continue to widen.
It was a case of primus inter pares, first among equals, for the examples he quoted but when it comes to Dublin vs The Rest, there is one very important difference: Greater Dublin has 40% of the Republic's population right now but official estimates expect that percentage to rise to 50% by 2040.
Along with its 40% of the people, Dublin has 50% of the nation's resources, according to Simon Coveney, and the imbalance will continue to increase as time goes by.
One team to represent half the country's population is unlikely to be toppled from its preeminent position any time soon.

Lar, the economic system IS falling apart. Why do you think interest rates are on the floor?
We need a new system. One that works for everyone. Not just a few nihilists in BAC .
We also need to save the pension schemes.

You are correct, the economic situation is dire and getting worse. Loads of factors to blame but damn the cause, worry about the effect. The east coast region is prospering- to a large degree anyway.
Population is rapidly increasing rapidly and this will only happen where employment is plentiful and income is rising.
People in their hundreds are migrating from west to east and the social infrastructure and every other fecking one you can think of is breaking  is doing the same.
Money underpins all aspects of society and Gaelic football is included.
You can have the most talented footballers, excellent managers and be spoilt for choice when it comes to centres of excellence and all weather pitches and the likes but they all come with a hefty price tag.
You will only get those if you have a large population to create a demand for such services and Dublin with close of half the population of the Republic leads the way here. Mayo is staying with them at the moment because of donations coming in from exiles overseas. If they had to depend on central funding, they'd never get out of Connacht.
There is one major reason why I won't accept that the present Dubs side are better than Kerry's five in a row and that comes down to money.
They may be just as talented and I've no problem with that but the gap between Dublin and the peloton is widening all the time, whereas Kerry had to take on counties with far greater numbers, facilities and, yes, money.
There is bound to be an odd break in their never ending sequence but those will never be enough to prevent the gap from widening.The future is all blue, I'm afraid- at least as long as the GAA  remains a relevant entity in Irish society.

All the money in pensions is speculated in financial assets, Lar. It is around EUR 100bn
One of the big Eurozone banks will blow up in the next few years. It might be Deutsche.
The Eurozone does not have the tools to deal with such a thing because it was designed assuming
there would never be a problem.   
When the big bank blows up a lot of the pension money will go to money heaven.

We need to get the money invested locally.  Rather than repeating the NPR.
Things might change then. 

We need a Davitt. We also need to get people to vote for their own futures rather than shite. 

[The Hill is Blue]

Are you mad? ""The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990. "

4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin. And the once in the lifetime group of players are slowly being eroded. Bernard Brogan, Diarmuid Connolly, MDMA were all peripheral this year. Cluxton is probably the only real cog from back then, and he's a goalkeeper.

It has become a given among some posters on this forum that Dublin are winning "because of money" when of course there are many factors which can contribute towards the emergence of a successful senior football team. Factors which include:

- Quality of strategic planning and leadership at County Board level
- Active participation by parents at juvenile level
- Dedicated school teachers promoting Gaelic games
- A long-term underage player development strategy
- Participation and leadership by ex-players at club level in encouraging juvenile participation in Gaelic games.
- Quality of the management of under-age and senior county teams.
- Availability of some extraordinarily gifted players.
- Relative weakness of other counties at a given time.
- Luck (without this many of the above factors just don't matter).   

Who is to say (or prove) which factor or combination of factors might contribute most to the emergence of a successful team?

Some people are pointing to the fact that Dublin's newer players are evidence that there is something different and new about the emergence of this Dublin team. But it has often been the case that very successful teams generate such an interest among the next generation of players that a number of gifted young players will emerge. There are many examples:

After most of the great Dublin team of the 1950s had retired gifted young players like Des Foley, Mickey Whelan, Paddy Holden and Simon Behan brought Dublin the Sam Maguire in 1963.

The Dublin team of the 70s made way for players like John O'Leary, Ciaran Duff, Barney Rock and Joe McNally, winners in 1983.

The great Meath team of the late 80s was supplemented by players such Graham Geraghty, Trevor Giles, Tommy Dowd and Darren Fay to win in 1996 and 1999.

So the emergence of talented young players on the coattails of a great team is quiet normal and not an indication of a seismic change in anything.   

[Lar Naparka]

Are you mad? ""The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990. "

4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin. And the once in the lifetime group of players are slowly being eroded. Bernard Brogan, Diarmuid Connolly, MDMA were all peripheral this year. Cluxton is probably the only real cog from back then, and he's a goalkeeper.

Am I mad?
I possibly am but I see a kindred soul in you.
BTW, You are taking the mick, aren't you??
If not, please translate this: (Concentrate on the bolded segments.)
"Are you mad? The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990."

...4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin.
What underpins the "revamped approach" if it isn't money??
Here's a description of the Dubs' "revamped approach," first posted by manfromdelmonte when comparing Dublin's  back up resources to those of Westmeath:


"Dublin have the world class gym in the national GAA centre in Abbotstown for all their teams
Westmeath have a converted shed in the old barracks in Mullingar, with a very basic range of equipment

Dublin have access to UCD, DCU, Trinity pitches as well as other centres around the capital
Westmeath have to beg for pitches - no training pitch, no centre of mediocrity

Dublin have a highest value of sponsorship (sorry partners) for their teams. among them: AIG, O'Neills, Skins, Lifestyle Sports, Ballygowan, Subaru, Jack Jones, Energise Sport, Aer Lingus, Linwoods, Gibson Hotel, ROS Nutrition, Gourmet Food Parlour. Their players get free cars to drive around in from other garages!
Westmeath have Renault, and a few lads in the county board get to drive around in cars

Dublin also get the highest amount of funding for coaching and games development in the country
Westmeath cannot even get money to fund an urban area coach for Mullingar or Athlone!"
Still think money isn't important?
( And spare me the crap about Dublin's dominance being down to the once in a lifetime bunch of gifted players who just materialised out of thin air and when they're gone, they're gone and Dublin will lose the Midas touch.
The only problem is that this theory is not supported by the facts.
Dublin is able to come up with a string of young talented players year after year and you see the likes of Bernard Brogan, McMenamon and MDMA, who'd get a place on any other team in the land, warming their arses on the subs' bench.
Mayo have been keeping pace with Dublin since 2013 and there is never more than a heartbeat between them, yet you hear sweet FA about Mayo's talented players.
Tell you what, if only it had been possible for Mayo and Dublin to switch places for a week or two before the AI, I wonder who'd be AI champions now?  I know we'll never find out but you can bet it wouldn't be Dublin.)

[rodney trotter]

Westmeath still have no bother employing outside managers.  The dipsticks. 25 years since the last Westmeath man managed them.

[AZOffaly]

Are you mad? ""The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990. "

4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin. And the once in the lifetime group of players are slowly being eroded. Bernard Brogan, Diarmuid Connolly, MDMA were all peripheral this year. Cluxton is probably the only real cog from back then, and he's a goalkeeper.

Am I mad?
I possibly am but I see a kindred soul in you.
BTW, You are taking the mick, aren't you??
If not, please translate this: (Concentrate on the bolded segments.)
"Are you mad? The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990."

...4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin.
What underpins the "revamped approach" if it isn't money??
Here's a description of the Dubs' "revamped approach," first posted by manfromdelmonte when comparing Dublin's  back up resources to those of Westmeath:


"Dublin have the world class gym in the national GAA centre in Abbotstown for all their teams
Westmeath have a converted shed in the old barracks in Mullingar, with a very basic range of equipment

Dublin have access to UCD, DCU, Trinity pitches as well as other centres around the capital
Westmeath have to beg for pitches - no training pitch, no centre of mediocrity

Dublin have a highest value of sponsorship (sorry partners) for their teams. among them: AIG, O'Neills, Skins, Lifestyle Sports, Ballygowan, Subaru, Jack Jones, Energise Sport, Aer Lingus, Linwoods, Gibson Hotel, ROS Nutrition, Gourmet Food Parlour. Their players get free cars to drive around in from other garages!
Westmeath have Renault, and a few lads in the county board get to drive around in cars

Dublin also get the highest amount of funding for coaching and games development in the country
Westmeath cannot even get money to fund an urban area coach for Mullingar or Athlone!"
Still think money isn't important?
( And spare me the crap about Dublin's dominance being down to the once in a lifetime bunch of gifted players who just materialised out of thin air and when they're gone, they're gone and Dublin will lose the Midas touch.
The only problem is that this theory is not supported by the facts.
Dublin is able to come up with a string of young talented players year after year and you see the likes of Bernard Brogan, McMenamon and MDMA, who'd get a place on any other team in the land, warming their arses on the subs' bench.
Mayo have been keeping pace with Dublin since 2013 and there is never more than a heartbeat between them, yet you hear sweet FA about Mayo's talented players.
Tell you what, if only it had been possible for Mayo and Dublin to switch places for a week or two before the AI, I wonder who'd be AI champions now?  I know we'll never find out but you can bet it wouldn't be Dublin.)

I was talking to Seafoid.

Hill, fully accept its more than just money. Money wins nothing, but money well spent on a sound strategy certainly helps.

[Lar Naparka]

Are you mad? ""The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990. "

4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin. And the once in the lifetime group of players are slowly being eroded. Bernard Brogan, Diarmuid Connolly, MDMA were all peripheral this year. Cluxton is probably the only real cog from back then, and he's a goalkeeper.

Am I mad?
I possibly am but I see a kindred soul in you.
BTW, You are taking the mick, aren't you??
If not, please translate this: (Concentrate on the bolded segments.)
"Are you mad? The Dubs are winning because of money" argument doesn't stack up imo. They have won 6 Sams since 1990."

...4 or 5 of them are in the last 6 or 7 years. It absolutely correlates with the revamped approach to Dublin.
What underpins the "revamped approach" if it isn't money??
Here's a description of the Dubs' "revamped approach," first posted by manfromdelmonte when comparing Dublin's  back up resources to those of Westmeath:


"Dublin have the world class gym in the national GAA centre in Abbotstown for all their teams
Westmeath have a converted shed in the old barracks in Mullingar, with a very basic range of equipment

Dublin have access to UCD, DCU, Trinity pitches as well as other centres around the capital
Westmeath have to beg for pitches - no training pitch, no centre of mediocrity

Dublin have a highest value of sponsorship (sorry partners) for their teams. among them: AIG, O'Neills, Skins, Lifestyle Sports, Ballygowan, Subaru, Jack Jones, Energise Sport, Aer Lingus, Linwoods, Gibson Hotel, ROS Nutrition, Gourmet Food Parlour. Their players get free cars to drive around in from other garages!
Westmeath have Renault, and a few lads in the county board get to drive around in cars

Dublin also get the highest amount of funding for coaching and games development in the country
Westmeath cannot even get money to fund an urban area coach for Mullingar or Athlone!"
Still think money isn't important?
( And spare me the crap about Dublin's dominance being down to the once in a lifetime bunch of gifted players who just materialised out of thin air and when they're gone, they're gone and Dublin will lose the Midas touch.
The only problem is that this theory is not supported by the facts.
Dublin is able to come up with a string of young talented players year after year and you see the likes of Bernard Brogan, McMenamon and MDMA, who'd get a place on any other team in the land, warming their arses on the subs' bench.
Mayo have been keeping pace with Dublin since 2013 and there is never more than a heartbeat between them, yet you hear sweet FA about Mayo's talented players.
Tell you what, if only it had been possible for Mayo and Dublin to switch places for a week or two before the AI, I wonder who'd be AI champions now?  I know we'll never find out but you can bet it wouldn't be Dublin.)

I was talking to Seafoid.

Hill, fully accept its more than just money. Money wins nothing, but money well spent on a sound strategy certainly helps.

You were? That's okay then, I thought you were losing the plot! 
Sure, neither money nor population size per se will guarantee success but they sure help to speed up the process.
As Tómás Ó'Se put it: " It's not the amount of funding a county gets that's important, it's how this money is used that matters." He then instanced Mayo with about 10% of Dublin's financial resources as an example of this.
To be serious for a change, I don't think the matter of how Dublin has streaked ahead of the rests matters at all.
If we are talking about cause and effect, the cause is unimportant but the effect is very, very relevant.
Who better than Martin Breheny of the Indo to explain why this is so?
Here goes

Revealed: The attendance figures for the GAA Football championships are a cause for concern.
Attendances at the All-Ireland football championships are in sharp decline, having dropped by 28pc over the last decade and by 16pc over the last five years.
Excluding replays, the total turnout this season was the lowest since 2000, the year before the qualifiers and quarter-finals were introduced.
At 788,746, the 2016 total was down over 100,000 (11pc) on last year. The peak was reached in 2003 when almost 1.2m watched the football action. It remained over the one million mark until 2010.
Since then it has dropped every year except 2015, reaching its lowest this season. The big attractions are in more demand than ever, but there has been a considerable drop-off for qualifiers, while Dublin's overwhelming dominance in Leinster for so long has seriously weakened the eastern market.
GAA director general Páraic Duffy has included the attendance figures since the turn of the Millennium in his revised Championship restructuring blueprint, which was circulated to counties this week.
He is recommending that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format.
County chairmen will discuss the document on Saturday, with Central Council deciding a week later whether to bring the proposals to next year's Congress for formal consideration.
Four replays - including the sell-out Dublin-Mayo All-Ireland final - boosted this year's overall football attendances by 136,000, taking them to 924,746.

That's why we are getting the Mickey Mouse Super 8 farce; more games to make up the shortfall. Artificial solutions to practical problems never work.
BTW I just came across Philly's take on GPS gate. Very much along the lines of what Alan Brogan, Tomás and Paul Gainey had to say. Apart from Jinxy and Syferus of course, none of us know sweet fa about what goes on in the course of an AI final.
"I'd have thrown my jersey at Rock' - Dublin's Philly McMahon says cynical play in GAA is here to stay."

"Philly McMahon says cynical play in GAA is here to stay"

[seafoid]

Anyone from outside Dublin playing inter county football is wasting their time if truth is told .

They are pawns .  County boards putting big money in to county teams to chasing Dublin need to reassess this policy .  This money could be put to far better use in clubs

Was it the same in hurling when KK were winning ?

[The Hill is Blue]

The first unbeatable team I was aware of was Kerry.

The first unbeatable team that I was aware of was Galway 1964/1966. 

[Rossfan]

They were.
It was 1967 before they lost

[mrhardyannual]

The first unbeatable team I was aware of was Kerry.

The first unbeatable team that I was aware of was Galway 1964/1966. 

Unfortunately another great Mayo side ran up against them at that time and were generally agreed to be the number two team in the country. Jimmy Duggan who won a county senior club title with Claremorris in Mayo in 1965 declared for Galway after being overlooked by Mayo minor selectors.

[seafoid]

The first unbeatable team I was aware of was Kerry.

The first unbeatable team that I was aware of was Galway 1964/1966. 

Unfortunately another great Mayo side ran up against them at that time and were generally agreed to be the number two team in the country. Jimmy Duggan who won a county senior club title with Claremorris in Mayo in 1965 declared for Galway after being overlooked by Mayo minor selectors.

Was John Morley on that team ?

[Lar Naparka]

The first unbeatable team I was aware of was Kerry.

The first unbeatable team that I was aware of was Galway 1964/1966. 

Unfortunately another great Mayo side ran up against them at that time and were generally agreed to be the number two team in the country. Jimmy Duggan who won a county senior club title with Claremorris in Mayo in 1965 declared for Galway after being overlooked by Mayo minor selectors.

Was John Morley on that team ?

He was indeed. But disaster struck, as the saying goes, when he had his appendix removed a fortnight before the semi with Meath. Incredibly, he he came on as a sub but Meath still won the game, 3-14 to 1-14.

[TheGreatest]

Stop them by cheatingly changing the rules of the game !