Cynical fouling is ruining the game of football?

[sheamy]

More and more managers and journalists are now saying the same thing. Are they right and what can be done to address it?

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=153217

Sligo manager Kevin Walsh believes that cynical fouling is ruining the game of football.

Walsh was speaking after his junior side had been beaten by Cork in the All-Ireland semi final and the Galway native feels it is time that the GAA acted on the matter.

"In my view cynical fouls should result in a straight red card and a sending off," stressed Walsh. "The professional foul is creeping into the game and it's something that has to be addressed.

"Referees should use their own initiatives in these cases. A cynical foul should result in a red card and a sending off. Maybe the rules have to be looked at. It's something that's come into the game a lot this season and it needs to be addressed."

[heffo]

It's something that's come into the game a lot this season and it needs to be addressed."

Cynical fouling has been around for a lot longer than this year.

[Dinny Breen]

It has Heffo but seem endemic this year but that could be just perception.

The GAA always seem reluctant to learn from other sports but I would incorporate team fouling from Basketball.

A clearly defined cynical foul i.e deliberately stopping an opponent such as dragging him down, blocking his run or pulling him back.

Once the team commits 5 of these for every foul afterwards a free kick should be awarded from the 13 meter line in front of the posts.

Will soon put a stop to it

[magpie seanie]

This is not something new. We don't like cynical fouls committed against us but when you're ahead and your guy pulls a lad down to stop him getting a goal we're secretly delighted. A nothing story.

[heffo]

It has Heffo but seem endemic this year but that could be just perception.

The GAA always seem reluctant to learn from other sports but I would incorporate team fouling from Basketball.

A clearly defined cynical foul i.e deliberately stopping an opponent such as dragging him down, blocking his run or pulling him back.

Once the team commits 5 of these for every foul afterwards a free kick should be awarded from the 13 meter line in front of the posts.

Will soon put a stop to it

Good idea. I'm all in favour of it.

[orangeman]

More and more managers and journalists are now saying the same thing. Are they right and what can be done to address it?

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=153217

Sligo manager Kevin Walsh believes that cynical fouling is ruining the game of football.

Walsh was speaking after his junior side had been beaten by Cork in the All-Ireland semi final and the Galway native feels it is time that the GAA acted on the matter.

"In my view cynical fouls should result in a straight red card and a sending off," stressed Walsh. "The professional foul is creeping into the game and it's something that has to be addressed.

"Referees should use their own initiatives in these cases. A cynical foul should result in a red card and a sending off. Maybe the rules have to be looked at. It's something that's come into the game a lot this season and it needs to be addressed."

They were talking about bringing in 13 a side football - sending lads off for cynical fouls would make it 5 a side football.  You'd need some level of fitness for that ! 

[lynchbhoy]

It has Heffo but seem endemic this year but that could be just perception.
The GAA always seem reluctant to learn from other sports but I would incorporate team fouling from Basketball.
A clearly defined cynical foul i.e deliberately stopping an opponent such as dragging him down, blocking his run or pulling him back.
Once the team commits 5 of these for every foul afterwards a free kick should be awarded from the 13 meter line in front of the posts.
Will soon put a stop to it

these are defined already.
its just that when refs penalise teams for these kind of fouls, the game is a whistlefest and people moan about the ref not allowing the game to 'flow'.

Poor old refs cant win.

I'd say that ensuring that every ref blows for everything should come in for the new season and if teams dont learn from it then maybe a 'team foul' aspect could be brought in.

[Dinny Breen]

It has Heffo but seem endemic this year but that could be just perception.
The GAA always seem reluctant to learn from other sports but I would incorporate team fouling from Basketball.
A clearly defined cynical foul i.e deliberately stopping an opponent such as dragging him down, blocking his run or pulling him back.
Once the team commits 5 of these for every foul afterwards a free kick should be awarded from the 13 meter line in front of the posts.
Will soon put a stop to it

these are defined already.
its just that when refs penalise teams for these kind of fouls, the game is a whistlefest and people moan about the ref not allowing the game to 'flow'.

Poor old refs cant win.

I'd say that ensuring that every ref blows for everything should come in for the new season and if teams dont learn from it then maybe a 'team foul' aspect could be brought in.

But it would be a clearly defined cynical foul - making the refs job easier as he knows that once he blows 5 of these against a team that everyone after that is a free in front of the posts - will cut down the number of frees and allow the game to flow more.

[Bogball XV]

They were talking about bringing in 13 a side football - sending lads off for cynical fouls would make it 5 a side football.  You'd need some level of fitness for that ! 

The team fouling rule should be looked at, also, and I'm near blue in the face saying this, the sin bin should be revisited.

[sheamy]

I don't think we're talking about the dragging a man down when he's going through. This as someone has pointed out has always been there.

The fact is that the tactical foul is part and parcel of the modern defensive system which does not work as completely without it. I think the systematic use of this tactic is something relatively new and something which is becoming more prevalent amongst the teams competing at the top level. Most counties, and more and more clubs have done it, some more systematically than others.

Paddy Heaney gave an excellent description of this in yesterday's Irish News with stats from the Dublin v Tyrone game and the Ulster final to back up the point he was making. One point he made was there are 14 outfield players which means even if you have the tick/yellow card system, you have 28 fouls to commit out of the scoring zone before there is any real penalty to the team. Teams work this efficiently these days.

Basically it pays to foul out the field and with the current implementation of the laws, there is no deterrent.

[Zulu]

While I agree cynical fouls should be punished more severly I'm not sure what's the best way to do so. David coldrick did very well on one occasion in the Donegal/Kildare game, the booking of mchugh for a cynical foul but only after the ball went dead. I think we need to better define what you can and can't do in the tackle, for example it's common enough to see tacklers with both hands around the players waist which means they aren't attempting to tackle the ball at all. This should always be a booking and maybe a 13 yard free. If, as Dinny, says we define certain types of tackles as cynical and illegal and make them punishable by a yellow and a 13 yard free then it cut it out I would think but would also prevent punishing too severly mistimed or awkward tackles.

[Bogball XV]

I don't think we're talking about the dragging a man down when he's going through. This as someone has pointed out has always been there.

The fact is that the tactical foul is part and parcel of the modern defensive system which does not work as completely without it. I think the systematic use of this tactic is something relatively new and something which is becoming more prevailant amongst the teams competing at the top level. Most counties have done it, some more systematically than others.

Paddy Heaney gave an excellent description of this in yesterday's Irish News with stats from the Dublin v Tyrone game and the Ulster final to back up the point he was making. One point he made was there are 14 outfield players which means even if you have the tick/yellow card system, you have 28 fouls to commit out of the scoring zone before there is any real penalty to the team. Teams work this efficiently these days.Basically it pays to foul out the field and with the current implementation of the laws, there is no deterrent.

Kerry were prime exponents of this art, i think it was the 2005 final where they all took turns to get their yellows.

[heffo]

I don't think we're talking about the dragging a man down when he's going through. This as someone has pointed out has always been there.

The fact is that the tactical foul is part and parcel of the modern defensive system which does not work as completely without it. I think the systematic use of this tactic is something relatively new and something which is becoming more prevailant amongst the teams competing at the top level. Most counties have done it, some more systematically than others.

Paddy Heaney gave an excellent description of this in yesterday's Irish News with stats from the Dublin v Tyrone game and the Ulster final to back up the point he was making. One point he made was there are 14 outfield players which means even if you have the tick/yellow card system, you have 28 fouls to commit out of the scoring zone before there is any real penalty to the team. Teams work this efficiently these days.Basically it pays to foul out the field and with the current implementation of the laws, there is no deterrent.

Kerry were prime exponents of this art, i think it was the 2005 final where they all took turns to get their yellows.

Five of their six starting forwards were booked against us in 2007 including the Gooch in a near identical tackle on Shane Ryan when through on goal to Canavan on him in 2005.

[sheamy]

It has Heffo but seem endemic this year but that could be just perception.
The GAA always seem reluctant to learn from other sports but I would incorporate team fouling from Basketball.
A clearly defined cynical foul i.e deliberately stopping an opponent such as dragging him down, blocking his run or pulling him back.
Once the team commits 5 of these for every foul afterwards a free kick should be awarded from the 13 meter line in front of the posts.
Will soon put a stop to it

these are defined already.
its just that when refs penalise teams for these kind of fouls, the game is a whistlefest and people moan about the ref not allowing the game to 'flow'.

Poor old refs cant win.
I'd say that ensuring that every ref blows for everything should come in for the new season and if teams dont learn from it then maybe a 'team foul' aspect could be brought in.

Depends really. My opinion is they (refs) need to apply more football intelligence. Rugby refs do this all the time with penalty tries and sin binnings. You hear them on the microphone telling the player what he was doing. It's obvious to supporters when it happens (well, ones that are clued in). Surely refs can judge this properly. It's a little subjective but it's not rocket science either. If there is a quick counter attack and a player is pulled by the arm, albeit not overly forcefully, then refs give the foul. The 13 men all filter back into the 45 in the 3-4 secs this buys them. Foul isn't deemed agressive so you get another 1-2 chances to do the same. The attacking team is the only one to lose.

[Rossfan]

[Kerry were prime exponents of this art, i think it was the 2005 final where they all took turns to get their yellows.

They were at it long before that -- think  1936 and Tommy Murphy 
I remember the late M O'Hehir in the earllly 80s  thinking it was awful funny when some Dublin lad pulled down an opponenet near the end of some game with a rugby tackle.
I'm sure  there are many more instances  from all Counties.