Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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BennyCake

#44700
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2019, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 24, 2019, 02:31:56 PM
United's problems go all the way back to 2009 with selling Ronaldo and replacing him with Valencia & Owen. The summers of 2009,2010 & 2011 all passed without United buying a top player after selling the best player in the world and also allowing a top player in Tevez to leave whilst Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes & Giggs all aged with no replacements brought in. How the Glazers must regret not backing Fergie in the transfer market, a hundred million back then would have allowed United to buy a top player each summer and saved them hundreds of millions in the future. United had one of the best squads anyone had ever put together in 2008 but unfortunately they grew old together threw neglect.

The biggest issue we've had since is that Moyes, LVG & Mourinho all had different approaches and all wanted different players so there's been nothing cohesive about our transfer policy.

United are desperate for a director of football/technical director who has a big say in the players that are brought in so that if OGS doesn't work out that the next manager is left with a good crop of players with a good age profile. Over the next 3 transfer windows I'd expect 7 players to be bought with around 10 leaving and think there's a really strong chance United will promote 3 youngsters. Every signing isn't going to be a success but of the next 7 signings United make at least 5 have got to be huge successes for United to get back to been a top team.

United are lucky that they can go out and spend huge money to put it right unlike the likes of Arsenal & Chelsea who are practically relying on selling before they can buy. There's probably around £350m on offer over the next 2 years plus whatever is sold.

Ferguson papered over the cracks in Manu's last premier win in 2013 with a poor enough team that took advantage of the disarray of all the other contenders and the Glazers were able to furnish their debts and all was well with the world.

Failure to buy the right type of player has been their achilles heel ever since.

If ManU don't make it to the top four it will be interesting to see how much the Glazers back Ollie in the summer transfer window.
There are no quick fixes.

Fergie squeezed every drop of juice out of that squad that he could. Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Evra, Vidic, etc were all coming to the end in 2013. Fergie wasn't looking beyond 2013 as he wouldn't be there, so the future state of the squad wasn't his concern. And the team has suffered since, because of that.

The collapse of the United empire is similar to Kerry's aging squad in the mid-80's. Most of them retired at the same time, and it took a long time to build from the bottom again. It's going to take time at United too. I would hope they don't continue this mediocrity, because before we know, it could be another 26 years wait for the league title.

seafoid

Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2019, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 24, 2019, 02:31:56 PM
United's problems go all the way back to 2009 with selling Ronaldo and replacing him with Valencia & Owen. The summers of 2009,2010 & 2011 all passed without United buying a top player after selling the best player in the world and also allowing a top player in Tevez to leave whilst Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes & Giggs all aged with no replacements brought in. How the Glazers must regret not backing Fergie in the transfer market, a hundred million back then would have allowed United to buy a top player each summer and saved them hundreds of millions in the future. United had one of the best squads anyone had ever put together in 2008 but unfortunately they grew old together threw neglect.

The biggest issue we've had since is that Moyes, LVG & Mourinho all had different approaches and all wanted different players so there's been nothing cohesive about our transfer policy.

United are desperate for a director of football/technical director who has a big say in the players that are brought in so that if OGS doesn't work out that the next manager is left with a good crop of players with a good age profile. Over the next 3 transfer windows I'd expect 7 players to be bought with around 10 leaving and think there's a really strong chance United will promote 3 youngsters. Every signing isn't going to be a success but of the next 7 signings United make at least 5 have got to be huge successes for United to get back to been a top team.

United are lucky that they can go out and spend huge money to put it right unlike the likes of Arsenal & Chelsea who are practically relying on selling before they can buy. There's probably around £350m on offer over the next 2 years plus whatever is sold.

Ferguson papered over the cracks in Manu's last premier win in 2013 with a poor enough team that took advantage of the disarray of all the other contenders and the Glazers were able to furnish their debts and all was well with the world.

Failure to buy the right type of player has been their achilles heel ever since.

If ManU don't make it to the top four it will be interesting to see how much the Glazers back Ollie in the summer transfer window.
There are no quick fixes.

Fergie squeezed every drop of juice out of that squad that he could. Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Evra, Vidic, etc were all coming to the end in 2013. Fergie wasn't looking beyond 2013 as he wouldn't be there, so the future state of the squad wasn't his concern. And the team has suffered since, because of that.

The collapse of the United empire is similar to Kerry's aging squad in the mid-80's. Most of them retired at the same time, and it took a long time to build from the bottom again. It's going to take time at United too. I would hope they don't continue this mediocrity, because before we know, it's another 26 years wait for the league title.

Kilkenny more recently would be the same
Cody didn't replace the legends so when they began to fade there was nobody to replace them.

It would be easier for Man Utd to go through the valley of tears if Liverpool didn't win any PL titles. Say Liverpool won 2- it would be unbearable for Man Utd fans. 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

yellowcard

Woodward is like John Delaney, he seems to escape any criticism whatsoever, it's either the Glazers, the manager or now the player who gets it in the neck. Sometimes rightly so but the man at the top appears to be accountable to nobody as long as the share price holds up. What about the man that has hired successive managers who were bad fits and who has created a culture of marquee signings on huge pay packets who have not produced the performances to back it up. Even now there is very little talk about Woodwards position being under any threat.

Maroon Manc

Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 24, 2019, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2019, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 24, 2019, 02:31:56 PM
United's problems go all the way back to 2009 with selling Ronaldo and replacing him with Valencia & Owen. The summers of 2009,2010 & 2011 all passed without United buying a top player after selling the best player in the world and also allowing a top player in Tevez to leave whilst Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes & Giggs all aged with no replacements brought in. How the Glazers must regret not backing Fergie in the transfer market, a hundred million back then would have allowed United to buy a top player each summer and saved them hundreds of millions in the future. United had one of the best squads anyone had ever put together in 2008 but unfortunately they grew old together threw neglect.

The biggest issue we've had since is that Moyes, LVG & Mourinho all had different approaches and all wanted different players so there's been nothing cohesive about our transfer policy.

United are desperate for a director of football/technical director who has a big say in the players that are brought in so that if OGS doesn't work out that the next manager is left with a good crop of players with a good age profile. Over the next 3 transfer windows I'd expect 7 players to be bought with around 10 leaving and think there's a really strong chance United will promote 3 youngsters. Every signing isn't going to be a success but of the next 7 signings United make at least 5 have got to be huge successes for United to get back to been a top team.

United are lucky that they can go out and spend huge money to put it right unlike the likes of Arsenal & Chelsea who are practically relying on selling before they can buy. There's probably around £350m on offer over the next 2 years plus whatever is sold.

Ferguson papered over the cracks in Manu's last premier win in 2013 with a poor enough team that took advantage of the disarray of all the other contenders and the Glazers were able to furnish their debts and all was well with the world.

Failure to buy the right type of player has been their achilles heel ever since.

If ManU don't make it to the top four it will be interesting to see how much the Glazers back Ollie in the summer transfer window.
There are no quick fixes.

A poor enough team doesn't win the league title in April as United did in 2013, the season before United only lost the EPL on GD and in 2010/11 United won the league and reached the CL final.

First season without Ferguson United fell to 7th and miles off the top and even now they are 6th and still miles off the top after finishing 2nd last year. Van Gaal,Moyes should never have been appointed and while the football was poor at least under Jose some progress was been made but he was lost without Rui Faria and at the end was only interested in the big pay out he would receive. The philosophy all three managers had was never a right fit for United.

Failure to buy the right type of player is certainly true, of all the signings brought in the last 6 years how many of them have good leadership qualities? The current team are like a pack of jelly babies with no back bone, go down behind in games and they are more likely to get well beaten than come back to earn a result.  Ole recent comments said he wants United to be the hardest working team in the league that runs the furthest (the traits of Ferguson's teams) and gave a big hint that the lazy players won't be around as he tries to build a successful team.

Interesting summer ahead and i think more will be shipped out that brought in and the new signings probably just 3 or 4 will have to be ones you can actually build a team around unlike Pogba.

It was a poor league in 12/13 and United over performed with what they got. Just checked and United had 77 points after 30 league games which was more than what City & Liverpool had at the same stage this season. It was a miracle United did so well with that side. It was the poorest United team that won a title and you've got to consider Rio, Vidc & Evra who were all world class players were then in their 30's as was Carrick. Add in that Rooney was finished as a top player and RVP was 30 by the time 13/14 started United had no top players in their 20's apart from the keeper. United paid the price for under investing after Ronaldo left.


trailer

Quote from: BennyCake on April 24, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2019, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 24, 2019, 02:31:56 PM
United's problems go all the way back to 2009 with selling Ronaldo and replacing him with Valencia & Owen. The summers of 2009,2010 & 2011 all passed without United buying a top player after selling the best player in the world and also allowing a top player in Tevez to leave whilst Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes & Giggs all aged with no replacements brought in. How the Glazers must regret not backing Fergie in the transfer market, a hundred million back then would have allowed United to buy a top player each summer and saved them hundreds of millions in the future. United had one of the best squads anyone had ever put together in 2008 but unfortunately they grew old together threw neglect.

The biggest issue we've had since is that Moyes, LVG & Mourinho all had different approaches and all wanted different players so there's been nothing cohesive about our transfer policy.

United are desperate for a director of football/technical director who has a big say in the players that are brought in so that if OGS doesn't work out that the next manager is left with a good crop of players with a good age profile. Over the next 3 transfer windows I'd expect 7 players to be bought with around 10 leaving and think there's a really strong chance United will promote 3 youngsters. Every signing isn't going to be a success but of the next 7 signings United make at least 5 have got to be huge successes for United to get back to been a top team.

United are lucky that they can go out and spend huge money to put it right unlike the likes of Arsenal & Chelsea who are practically relying on selling before they can buy. There's probably around £350m on offer over the next 2 years plus whatever is sold.

Ferguson papered over the cracks in Manu's last premier win in 2013 with a poor enough team that took advantage of the disarray of all the other contenders and the Glazers were able to furnish their debts and all was well with the world.

Failure to buy the right type of player has been their achilles heel ever since.

If ManU don't make it to the top four it will be interesting to see how much the Glazers back Ollie in the summer transfer window.
There are no quick fixes.

Fergie squeezed every drop of juice out of that squad that he could. Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Evra, Vidic, etc were all coming to the end in 2013. Fergie wasn't looking beyond 2013 as he wouldn't be there, so the future state of the squad wasn't his concern. And the team has suffered since, because of that.

The collapse of the United empire is similar to Kerry's aging squad in the mid-80's. Most of them retired at the same time, and it took a long time to build from the bottom again. It's going to take time at United too. I would hope they don't continue this mediocrity, because before we know, it could be another 26 years wait for the league title.

Ferguson bought Zaha, Smalling and Jones. What did he buy them for if not to replace Giggs, Ferdinand and Vidic? Moyes bought Luke Shaw a direct replacement for Evra! Other centre backs have been bought since. Jesus Utd could play a team of centre halfs alone.
That squad won the league by 11 points over City. This bullshit narrative that he didn't replace an ageing team is just not true. It required some a few players to be added and that's exactly what was done.


seafoid

Quote from: yellowcard on April 24, 2019, 04:09:55 PM
Woodward is like John Delaney, he seems to escape any criticism whatsoever, it's either the Glazers, the manager or now the player who gets it in the neck. Sometimes rightly so but the man at the top appears to be accountable to nobody as long as the share price holds up. What about the man that has hired successive managers who were bad fits and who has created a culture of marquee signings on huge pay packets who have not produced the performances to back it up. Even now there is very little talk about Woodwards position being under any threat.

Woodward has a lot of crap coming down the line especially if Liverpool win a league title. Liverpool
are way more organised. They paid a fortune for VVD but had done their homework and he is now a key player in a functioning team .
Spurs, Man City and Liverpool all have a good manager and a system. Man Utd could be a decade in the wilderness . Busby was followed by years of mediocrity.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Boycey

Ffs Leicester have won a Premier League during Woodward's time, do you really think it's all gonna go off just cause Liverpool win one??

I'm tired and weary saying this he's doing a terrific job from the owners perspective

Woodward replied: "Playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business."

Cunny Funt

Looks like a five man defence for tonight with Young starting and captaining the team again. Fred the CDM and Matic dropped.

                 DeGea
     Darmian Smalling Lindelof
Young                             Shaw
                 Fred
      Lingard Pereria Pogba

              Rashford

McTominay must be injured as he's not on the bench.  A derby game and sometimes form goes out the window for those games and reaction is possible after that awful performance last Sunday but if City turn up and play to their capabilities it's hard to see past a comfortable win for them.

blewuporstuffed

Any links for the game?
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Milltown Row2

If I were a betting man  ;) I'd be going for City first half second half 21/20, they generally score early.

But 11/2 at home in a derby match! Seems hard not to have a snipe at that also
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Captain Obvious

Twenty five minutes played Manchester United look well fired up for this game, City look a little rattled making errors in their passing they wouldn't normally make. Liverpool supporters will be encouraged watching this.

Jeepers Creepers

Arsenal 3 down at Wolves. Possibly still a sniff of top 4

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 24, 2019, 08:35:08 PM
Arsenal 3 down at Wolves. Possibly still a sniff of top 4

Ridiculous score line. If Utd are difficult to watch arsenal must be hard to follow!
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Cunny Funt

Can't fault the effort in this match a much improved performance tonight from recent games. For all the talk of United poor recent form nobody has mentioned that United are unbeaten in their last 14 home league games and if they work as hard 2nd half there is a possibility that run will continue. 


Milltown Row2

Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 24, 2019, 08:49:34 PM
Can't fault the effort in this match a much improved performance tonight from recent games. For all the talk of United poor recent form nobody has mentioned that United are unbeaten in their last 14 home league games and if they work as hard 2nd half there is a possibility that run will continue.

They weren't troubled for much of that, though no games are won in the first half (bar Wolves v Arsenal)

If I were a Liverpool supporter I'd be taking the current 11/10 available to win the league
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea