The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

[Gmac]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

at another time in another type of format she would probably say that men can get pregnant.

[Eamonnca1]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

[Eamonnca1]

Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?

Pretty much.

We'll see now where the country is at now that abortion is going to be criminalized, with private citizens surveilling and suing women.

The GOP used it as a consequence-free way to drum up support for decades. If the support is out there for at least a moderate level of abortion rights, they might wish they'd left things as they were.

I might just write to my California state assembly member and ask if we can get a bill in California that puts a $10,000 bounty on anyone who owns a gun. We'll soon see how long the Supreme Court allows this kind of vigilante's charter to stand.

[J70]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

[whitey]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)

[Main Street]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)

The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

[whitey]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)

The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

Fair enough......no limits up to and including due date (as long as it's signed off on by a doctor)

[RedHand88]

My wife is 39 weeks pregnant right now. The baby has been visibly moving about, kicking etc since 20 odd weeks. It reacts to the torch on a phone and has done for several months now. We have a photo of it at 12 weeks sucking its thumb.

[J70]

3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It's a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you're actually born you're not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I'm not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That's it, isn't it.

The "freedom" "me, me, me" crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won't even know they're pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell......they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)

The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

Fair enough......no limits up to and including due date (as long as it's signed off on by a doctor)

Are there a lot of doctors signing off on killing near- or full-term or even third semester babies?

[whitey]

No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

[J70]

No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.

[J70]

My wife is 39 weeks pregnant right now. The baby has been visibly moving about, kicking etc since 20 odd weeks. It reacts to the torch on a phone and has done for several months now. We have a photo of it at 12 weeks sucking its thumb.

You're just about there then so.

Good luck, especially if its your first. Life will never be the same, in the best possible way!

[whitey]

No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.

Well if you have Downs Syndrome I guess you're out of luck

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/

Funny thing is, here in Massachusetts you could go 2 or 3 years without seeing any DS people. Last time I was home, I saw 3 the first day

Anyway happens when they discover a prenatal test for Autism-should those kids be taken out as well?

[J70]

No idea

But that's an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.

Well if you have Downs Syndrome I guess you're out of luck

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/

Funny thing is, here in Massachusetts you could go 2 or 3 years without seeing any DS people. Last time I was home, I saw 3 the first day

Anyway happens when they discover a prenatal test for Autism-should those kids be taken out as well?

No argument from me there. Aborting a child due to Down Syndrome or autism or any such condition is fucked up.