Author Topic: The Many Faces of US Politics...  (Read 1637097 times)

RedHand88

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22170 on: September 07, 2021, 07:41:22 AM »
My wife is 39 weeks pregnant right now. The baby has been visibly moving about, kicking etc since 20 odd weeks. It reacts to the torch on a phone and has done for several months now. We have a photo of it at 12 weeks sucking its thumb.

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22171 on: September 07, 2021, 12:58:20 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

Itís a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until youíre actually born youíre not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

Iím not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

Thatís it, isnít it.

The ďfreedomĒ ďme, me, meĒ crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women wonít even know theyíre pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tellÖÖthey want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

Fair enoughÖÖno limits up to and including due date (as long as itís signed off on by a doctor)

Are there a lot of doctors signing off on killing near- or full-term or even third semester babies?

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22172 on: September 07, 2021, 02:24:33 PM »
No idea

But thatís an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22173 on: September 07, 2021, 05:29:03 PM »
No idea

But thatís an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22174 on: September 07, 2021, 05:30:43 PM »
My wife is 39 weeks pregnant right now. The baby has been visibly moving about, kicking etc since 20 odd weeks. It reacts to the torch on a phone and has done for several months now. We have a photo of it at 12 weeks sucking its thumb.

You're just about there then so.

Good luck, especially if its your first. Life will never be the same, in the best possible way!

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22175 on: September 07, 2021, 06:17:11 PM »
No idea

But thatís an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.


Well if you have Downs Syndrome I guess youíre out of luck

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/

Funny thing is, here in Massachusetts you could go 2 or 3 years without seeing any DS people. Last time I was home, I saw 3 the first day

Anyway happens when they discover a prenatal test for Autism-should those kids be taken out as well?


J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22176 on: September 07, 2021, 06:41:30 PM »
No idea

But thatís an entirely different conversation

(I was just confirming that some people believe that there should be no limit as long as it okayed by a doctor)

I'm sure, as with anything, there are a few zealots out there who believe that, but surely its not mainstream by any stretch?

And I would expect that any doctor making such a call would have to seriously justify their decision.


Well if you have Downs Syndrome I guess youíre out of luck

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/

Funny thing is, here in Massachusetts you could go 2 or 3 years without seeing any DS people. Last time I was home, I saw 3 the first day

Anyway happens when they discover a prenatal test for Autism-should those kids be taken out as well?

No argument from me there. Aborting a child due to Down Syndrome or autism or any such condition is fucked up.

Gabriel_Hurl

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22177 on: September 08, 2021, 05:07:04 AM »
a fitting tribute to 9/11



Gmac

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22178 on: September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM »
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each otherís throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which heís now trying to put in rear view mirror .

Gmac

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22179 on: September 09, 2021, 08:06:06 PM »
a fitting tribute to 9/11



they wanted joe but it starts at 7-30 so way past his bedtime

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22180 on: September 09, 2021, 08:36:59 PM »
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each otherís throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which heís now trying to put in rear view mirror .

Itís good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasnít dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. Itís not Bidenís fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.

Gmac

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22181 on: September 09, 2021, 09:41:35 PM »
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each otherís throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which heís now trying to put in rear view mirror .

Itís good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasnít dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. Itís not Bidenís fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didnít Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks heís sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but heís really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22182 on: September 09, 2021, 10:33:29 PM »
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each otherís throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which heís now trying to put in rear view mirror .

Itís good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasnít dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. Itís not Bidenís fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didnít Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks heís sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but heís really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

Trump is afraid to forcefully endorse the vaccine and you know it. This is a bellicose man who insults and lies constantly in his own perceived interest, but heís like a scared little lamb when it comes to his lunatic base.

Biden is perfectly in line with mainstream science and the Democratic Party. Itís going to take mandates in the US because of the irrational reluctance in some quarters, some of it of longstanding  cultural origin, some of it purely political.

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22183 on: September 10, 2021, 01:40:28 AM »
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each otherís throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which heís now trying to put in rear view mirror .

Itís good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasnít dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. Itís not Bidenís fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didnít Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks heís sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but heís really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

Trump is afraid to forcefully endorse the vaccine and you know it. This is a bellicose man who insults and lies constantly in his own perceived interest, but heís like a scared little lamb when it comes to his lunatic base.

Biden is perfectly in line with mainstream science and the Democratic Party. Itís going to take mandates in the US because of the irrational reluctance in some quarters, some of it of longstanding  cultural origin, some of it purely political.

Donít know whoís advising Joe but they need their heads examined

While a lot of conservatives are against getting vaccinated so are a lot of African Americans

Heís ticking off a lot of his own voters (and I donít know if itís either constitutional or enforceable)

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22184 on: September 10, 2021, 05:55:38 AM »
Democrat racists attacking Larry elder in Venice beach yesterday one wearing a gorilla mask , the national guard would be in la if this happened a Democrat candidate.
Joe going to go with full on vaccine mandates wherever he can today ,he  has to get the country back at each otherís throats after most people agreeing on his disastrous handling  of the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle which heís now trying to put in rear view mirror .

Itís good to see you care about racists now Gmac. Hopefully that person was either arrested or had the shit knocked out of him.

Biden is doing the right thing mandating vaccines for federal workers and large companies. You yourself were on here whining a couple of weeks ago that he wasnít dealing with the pandemic. Mandates is an absolutely necessary part of getting life back to normal. Itís not Bidenís fault that the GOP and Trump are doubling down on fighting against vaccines and masks for political reasons.
doubt either of those things happened the scum in Los Angeles
Refresh my memory but didnít Trump help with the vaccines and there speedy arrival?
He just said last week at a rally to take the vaccine , mandates are different though and lots of people from all walks of life are against them , Joe thinks heís sticking it to rednecks and Trump supporters but heís really sticking it to black and Latino people . But you get who you vote for .

Trump is afraid to forcefully endorse the vaccine and you know it. This is a bellicose man who insults and lies constantly in his own perceived interest, but heís like a scared little lamb when it comes to his lunatic base.

Biden is perfectly in line with mainstream science and the Democratic Party. Itís going to take mandates in the US because of the irrational reluctance in some quarters, some of it of longstanding  cultural origin, some of it purely political.

Donít know whoís advising Joe but they need their heads examined

While a lot of conservatives are against getting vaccinated so are a lot of African Americans

Heís ticking off a lot of his own voters (and I donít know if itís either constitutional or enforceable)

Supreme Court has okayed mandatory vaccinations before.

And itís standard stuff for a range of government-run operations at various levels.

Enforcement is a separate issue. When it comes to the federal workforce, they can obviously try to make it a condition of employment.

My employer tied it to workplace access; no vaccine, your ID is disabled and you donít get on site, which is a bit of an issue now that telework is ending for just about everyone who wasnít already back. Supposedly 99% of what is a large workforce are now in compliance. And that workforce includes a lot of black, Hispanic and conservative people. Anyone who got an exemption (religious or medical -genuine) has to mask everywhere and submit to weekly testing.

And yeah, it might well be ticking off some of Bidenís own voters, but itís the right thing to do.

No doubt there have been, are and will be all kinds of lawsuits at all sorts of levels. But private employers and various levels of government are charging full steam ahead on this.