Author Topic: The Many Faces of US Politics...  (Read 1637115 times)

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22155 on: September 02, 2021, 10:46:28 PM »
Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22156 on: September 03, 2021, 01:31:54 AM »
Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?

Pretty much.

We’ll see now where the country is at now that abortion is going to be criminalized, with private citizens surveilling and suing women.

The GOP used it as a consequence-free way to drum up support for decades. If the support is out there for at least a moderate level of abortion rights, they might wish they’d left things as they were.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 01:42:45 AM by J70 »

RedHand88

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22157 on: September 03, 2021, 11:39:37 AM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22158 on: September 03, 2021, 12:28:00 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22159 on: September 03, 2021, 01:24:42 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22160 on: September 03, 2021, 01:49:54 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22161 on: September 03, 2021, 02:18:57 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 02:20:40 PM by whitey »

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22162 on: September 03, 2021, 02:30:31 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

Gmac

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22163 on: September 03, 2021, 03:45:46 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU
at another time in another type of format she would probably say that men can get pregnant.

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22164 on: September 05, 2021, 11:54:32 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22165 on: September 05, 2021, 11:55:52 PM »
Did the conservatives just quietly kill Roe v Wade?

Pretty much.

We’ll see now where the country is at now that abortion is going to be criminalized, with private citizens surveilling and suing women.

The GOP used it as a consequence-free way to drum up support for decades. If the support is out there for at least a moderate level of abortion rights, they might wish they’d left things as they were.

I might just write to my California state assembly member and ask if we can get a bill in California that puts a $10,000 bounty on anyone who owns a gun. We'll soon see how long the Supreme Court allows this kind of vigilante's charter to stand.

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22166 on: September 06, 2021, 07:14:37 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That’s it, isn’t it.

The “freedom” “me, me, me” crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22167 on: September 06, 2021, 10:56:15 PM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That’s it, isn’t it.

The “freedom” “me, me, me” crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won’t even know they’re pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell……they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)

Main Street

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22168 on: September 07, 2021, 12:26:49 AM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That’s it, isn’t it.

The “freedom” “me, me, me” crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won’t even know they’re pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell……they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #22169 on: September 07, 2021, 12:34:18 AM »
3rd trimester abortions are a crazy notion. Only 19% of Americans agree with it. Indeed only 34% agree with 2nd trimester.
Biden and the coastal metropolitan Dems are out of touch.

And the "heartland" "real American" GOPers who want to ban all abortions (because that's what a six week limit does), drive it back into the back alleys, and institute a system of spying and bounty hunting are in touch?

It’s a waste of time even discussing this

Those on the extreme right believe all Abortion should be banned in all circumstances and that life begins at conception

Those on the extreme left believe that there should be no restrictions on abortion and it should be allowed up until and including the due date (and that until you’re actually born you’re not a person)

And Jen Psaki when questioned about it yesterday, essentially told a male reporter yesterday to STFU

Personally, I believe life begins at conception (but obviously then you're into the discussion of what is a life). And I'm opposed to abortion in most circumstances.

However, I absolutely do not believe that society has any right to insist that a woman has to carry the child of a rapist or to put her own life in danger or force her to go through the trauma of seeing out a doomed pregnancy where the child is either going to suffer and die in utero or after they're born.

And I'm also not sure what my attitude would be if my currently young daughter comes home as a teenager, accidentally pregnant. Or if she was financially destitute or otherwise in hard times and in no fit state to go through a pregnancy.

Like all kinds of issues where division can be sewn and reaped, these laws affect actual, real human beings, not statistics.

And this idea that the right has that most women who seeks abortions are just heading out on their lunchbreak, willy nilly, with no thought or consideration or emotional distress, to use it as a handy means of birth control, is just ludicrous.

All that aside, what these laws REALLY mean is that well-off people, including many Republicans whose "resolve" will cease to exist when it visits their own lives, will continue to have access to abortion as they can just fly to the next state where its permitted, while it will be the poor who will be fucked over.

The definition of parenting and family has also changed over the past decades

I know 2 people who are in open adoption scenarios where the birth parents families are involved in the kids life (annual joint family vacations, etc)

One of my sons best friends is an African American kid adopted by a white gay man

Another kid in their class has 2 moms

Hundreds of thousand of people go through IVF every year, while there are millions of pregnancies terminated

I’m not for telling other people what to do, but there are alternatives to abortion that merit serious consideration

No doubt. Adoption is absolutely one of them.

Easy, maybe even free access to contraception.

Better societal support for pregnant women. Better societal support for new parents. Better societal support for people struggling with childcare.

1 - You can't provide any of these to a stillborn child who has organs missing.
2 - Conservatives aren't exactly known for their support for women or families. To them "family values" is a slogan to be rolled out at election time. As soon as it comes to any actual policies that would help mothers, conservatives are fine with women giving birth one day and going back to work at McDonald's the next.

That’s it, isn’t it.

The “freedom” “me, me, me” crowd balk at any serious attempts to help women not have to resort to abortion as communism and an attack on their religious freedom.

So six weeks is obviously ridiculous as many women won’t even know they’re pregnant at that stage

So if six weeks is too restrictive, what number of weeks would the pro choice lobby find agreeable?

(From what I can tell……they want zero restrictions, up to and including the day of birth)
The medics have already come to an agreement as to what the safety limits are, they're the one qualified. After that it's the mother's right to choose and the medic to inform the mother about those choices.

Fair enough……no limits up to and including due date (as long as it’s signed off on by a doctor)