Arlene's bigotry shines through

[6th sam]

Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!

[Orior]

Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.

[longballin]

aye but Arlene could at least try to hide her bigotry and bitterness

[Taylor]

Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side

[longballin]

Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side

That is the whole point of being a Repubican - take that away and you're a Unionist.

[Applesisapples]

A few observations, firstly on Arlene as leader, everyone knows that Nigel has the real power at the moment. Secondly the whole debacle illustrates that unionists always expect higher standards from nationalists than they practice themselves, this is especially true when it comes to SF. And as the Carla Lockhart situation illustrates they are lacking in shame, an  I am not condoning the disgraceful trolling of her, but her own tweets are often offensive. finally the shinners are right to let it run.

[6th sam]

You could equally say , until unionists drop any talk of remaining in the UK we'll not engage with them.
There needs to be mutual respect, for each other's position.

There are a significant minority of people on this island who would not feel comfortable in a simple United ireland ie an extension of Dáil jurisdiction into the six counties. Only very very unreasonable people would not respect those concerns. There is a school of thought among some unionists that fenians can't be trusted ( which is ironic given RHI etc) and they fear being subsumed into a backwater banana republic. Several Economic parameters however very clearly place ROI in a much better place than NI .?
Brexit has really thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, but a variation of joint authority in a European context would have been much easier to keep unionists on board.

The only workable solution is developing a mutual respect within the six counties initially . Then pragmatically  concentrating on the economy , health , education in the short term, and  actually getting to a stage whereby politicians and civil servants can be mature enough to sit down and discuss and map the next 50-100 years . Nationalists /republicans must take the lead on this , as they are the stronger partner, and it's up to them to build the confidence of unionists in any all-island solution. There's a real chance to isolate and shrink the DUP by making them a ridiculed tiny minority in these islands. The rest of us can build an equal society, and they'll eventually row in. On the other hand if we foster the growth of these extremists by being ungenerous or self-centred , future generations will remain beleaguered by conflict

[Milltown Row2]

An All Ireland with a working Stormont that effectively still looks after and governs the 'wee six' , it has a budget and a payoff from Britain to appease the local, but must have a time frame (20 years) to bring everything into line.. selling something like that could make the ones on the fence buy into it

[6th sam]

An All Ireland with a working Stormont that effectively still looks after and governs the 'wee six' , it has a budget and a payoff from Britain to appease the local, but must have a time frame (20 years) to bring everything into line.. selling something like that could make the ones on the fence buy into it

Yes, the key point is 20yr+ plan, securing rights and identity for the next generation. Hard even for the most ardent unionists not to back that. Ironically if such an approach was taken at the onset of the NI state with ingrained respect for identity for future generations, it could have worked much better. Ultimately it wasn't the national question that started the conflict in NI from the 60s it was civil rights . Even the recent irretrievable  breakdown in Stormont might never  have happened if DUP respected Irish language/identity .
Give people respect, equality & opportunities and they'll have no interest in undermining the state, and international opinion won't let them get away with it.

[AQMP]

This was part of a discussion this morning around the whistleblower Janette O'Hagan:

=========================================================================

Mrs O'Hagan was "caught in the political crossfire" at the time of the RHI scandal publicly erupting in December 2016, accepts Mrs Foster.

The DUP's deputy leader Nigel Dodds published one of Ms O'Hagan's emails that month, saying that it "nails the myth" that Mrs Foster "failed to follow up" on concerns that were raised to her.

He said the email "raised no concerns" about the scheme and he claimed it was the "only contact with the minister" - that was, of course, incorrect and Mrs Foster accepts that now.

Sir Patrick suggests that one possibility for releasing Ms O'Hagan's email is that "she was fed to the wolves".

Ms O'Hagan told the inquiry in February that how her correspondence was handled at the time was a "complete disgrace".

The DUP leader says there was a "storm" about the scandal going on at the time and there was "a lot of firefighting" to "deal with the allegations that were being made".

[Applesisapples]

Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.

No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

[BennyCake]

Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.

No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.

[AQMP]

One of the first companies to notice how lucrative the RHI scheme could be was Sheridan and Hood, which was owned by Brian Hood, who gave evidence to the inquiry in February.

He even suggested to Stormont's justice department that if it used the RHI scheme as part of a major emergency service college it was planning it could pocket just under £900,000 over 20 years.

His company was the first to be accredited on the scheme and he even received a certificate for that from Mrs Foster in March 2013.

The DUP leader can't remember meeting him.

Apart from to put on her crown brooch every morning, can she remember anything??

[6th sam]

Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.

No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

I think we need to get away from flags. We should encourage and foster identity but discourage " in your face" territory marking.

[Applesisapples]

Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.

No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.

its about mutual respect