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Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.

From my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -

"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."

Back when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.

Absolute bollocks.

You are burying your head in the sand.

Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.

The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.

It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.

These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.

I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.

You see bombers problem here is he just doesn't get. Not his fault really as there are a lot of things he just doesn't get as is shown by is continuous ramblings all over this board. On this thread instead of just going away and accepting he doesn't get it he has a couple of other fools egging him on and this has resulted in the absolute nonsense that is came out in this post.

As Lar has already pointed out the trouble that came about as a result of the appointment process was well flag. Not only was it discussed all over Mayo it was also discussed at Co Board level and resulted in resignations from the board. But the power brokers pushed on, patting themselves on the back for the great appointment.

Everyone knew that the real reason for the appointment was to cut back on spending and this meant putting the players back in their boxes. James Horan brought this team to within a kick of a ball of winning an All Ireland final but this meant increased spending on team preparation. It also meant Horan had more of a say on how things were run and when things were going well no one could say a word. But Horan was hated. As far as some were concerned he had to much power and our Co Board men didn't like this one bit.

When Horan left they made sure they wouldn't make the same mistake again. In a dictatorship only the dictators can have control. What better way to ensure total control but to appoint a relation of the leader. This is something you see in the middle east time and time again

So the Dynamic Duo took up and straight away attempted to sort out the plebs. Cuts made in the medical team, cuts made in training expenses. This all at a time when the other serious All Ireland contenders were taking things to another level. And the players should keeps their mouths shut. Be good little boys and say nothing. You see they have no all Ireland medals so what do they know.

This group of players never had a problem with self criticism. Under James Horan they always tried to identify problems and rectify them. Just look at the player Aiden O'Shea was in 2010 and see how he improved every year under Horan. He addressed issues with is fitness and overall play. Look at the team that was physically beat up a stick by Kerry in 2011 and how they transformed themselves over the next couple of years. Ok. They didn't reach the holy grail but they came damn close and I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.

The least they could have expected when Horan left was someone that may be able to offer something a little bit different. Bomber keeps on pointing that H&C achieved the same results in 2015 as Horan did up to this but the simple point he is missing is the players didn't want the same results. Maybe someone that could help them identify areas that they could improve and put time and resources into improving this. Not some gobshite who himself stood of a man  as he scored 11 points in an All Ireland telling them that they were bullied by Kerry and all they are good for is making excuses. Not some Co Board lackies whose number 1 priorty was to cut expenses. As for reaching the All Ireland semi final and losing to Dublin in a replay. This team without a manager could have achieved this. Despite not having actually one an All Ireland they reached the semi every year  in the previous 4 years and certainly did not need H&C to guide them to this. One saying you often hear mentioned is you learn more from losing then winning. Mayo lost the 2014 replay after a 6 day turnaround. I wonder would the players have anything to offer management on ways they could rectify any problems they identified from the previous year when they faced the same thing in 2015. I also wonder how much heed management paid of these opinions. But then sure the players have no All Irelands so what would they know.

I've said this before, some of these players had the misfortune of playing under a management which came about as a result of a County Board stroke. Micky Moran got above hs station and he was cut at the knees. We seen what happened the next 4 years as the players kept their mouths shuts. Thank good they were a lot braver this time. The only thing I wonder after reading this H&C list of excuses why they didnt make it at management is why the players didn't do what Offaly hurlers did and fcuk these chancers out long before they did. You never know with a proper set up they may have pulled of something special in 2015

Super post Croistlinn. I'd agree with all of it.

Lar, I couldn't agree with you more, that game in Sligo was the worst I've ever seen from Mayo in championship. Mayo started brilliantly with Alan Freeman running riot in his debut (he still hasn't been as good as he was in the two championship games in 2010) but Sligo turned the screw and the result was beyond doubt before the end, save for some nerves from an unfancied team on the brink of a shock.

Longford actually wasn't as bad in performance terms but if you could go back in time now I defy you to find any Mayo fan leaving that day who felt 'the future is bright'. It's easy to draw a line from now and say there was a great group there. There was a great group in the 1970s too, Minor All-Ireland in 1, U21 in 74 but we won no Connacht senior title that decade and only one out of the first five on offer in the 1980s. Horan's success in bringing Mayo where they were at the end of the 2011 season was incredible, to have them still at the level they are at is a huge testament to the players but in a big way to Horan himself. If Mayo win an All Ireland under Rochford, Horan will deserve a decent share of the credit.

The trouble with so much of the debate going on around the county, and here, is that we're dealing in a lot of assumptions and hearing one side of the argument. Holmes and Connelly have spoken but until we hear from the players, I'd be keeping an open mind. Certainly what Holmes and Connelly have said are at odds with word that was coming out of the camp during the year. That doesn't mean that Holmes and Connelly are wrong and that word is right but it does mean there just might be a different account from the players. Two sides to every story etc. I don't think we'll be hearing from them though, to speak now is to give old news fresh oxygen.

There's an assumption being made that Aidan O'Shea's email was seeking to get his brother Conor included in the 26. The talk is that it was Mikie Sweeney. Again, no proof of that - we'd have to see the email or have that direct question asked but if it was Conor O'Shea, what was to stop Holmes and Connelly saying it? By not saying who it was, they knew well the assumption that would have been made. If it was Conor O'Shea, naming him would help their argument much, much more.

There's assumptions about the O'Sheas and Rochford sitting together at the semi-final. I find that preposterous. What proof is there of that?

Long and short of this is that after four years with Horan, Mayo would nearly have done as well as they did in 2015 in neutral gear with any management but issues that were there during the year might have made that a much harder ask in 2016. 27 players voted no confidence, seven voted the other way. That's more than a small group! And those seven attended with the full group of players to give a letter to the county board. There was no split in the camp and, save for Tom Cunniffe, there's been none since. If this was a stunt pulled by a few and players were exercising undue influence, do you think guys like Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Ger Cafferkey and Andy Moran would stand for it? Do you think if a few players got Rob Hennelly picked for the replay, David Clarke would be back in harness for 2017?

There are no assumptions about them sitting together at the semi final. That is a fact.

I cannot understand what Rochford was doing in that instance.

Absolutely barmy.

There is a limit to player power and currently across the board at inter county level  players have too much say.

How is it a fact? They were spotted talking. This does not mean they were sitting beside each other. I've heard they were seated near each other but not beside each other - they would both have access to AIB tickets - and talked at half time as anyone would. I cannot prove this without seeing their ticket stubs but I believe it. I agree, if what you say is true, it's barmy and worrying. But I don't think it is.

The trouble with so much of the debate going on around the county, and here, is that we're dealing in a lot of assumptions and hearing one side of the argument. Holmes and Connelly have spoken but until we hear from the players, I'd be keeping an open mind. Certainly what Holmes and Connelly have said are at odds with word that was coming out of the camp during the year. That doesn't mean that Holmes and Connelly are wrong and that word is right but it does mean there just might be a different account from the players. Two sides to every story etc. I don't think we'll be hearing from them though, to speak now is to give old news fresh oxygen.

There's an assumption being made that Aidan O'Shea's email was seeking to get his brother Conor included in the 26. The talk is that it was Mikie Sweeney. Again, no proof of that - we'd have to see the email or have that direct question asked but if it was Conor O'Shea, what was to stop Holmes and Connelly saying it? By not saying who it was, they knew well the assumption that would have been made. If it was Conor O'Shea, naming him would help their argument much, much more.

There's assumptions about the O'Sheas and Rochford sitting together at the semi-final. I find that preposterous. What proof is there of that?

Long and short of this is that after four years with Horan, Mayo would nearly have done as well as they did in 2015 in neutral gear with any management but issues that were there during the year might have made that a much harder ask in 2016. 27 players voted no confidence, seven voted the other way. That's more than a small group! And those seven attended with the full group of players to give a letter to the county board. There was no split in the camp and, save for Tom Cunniffe, there's been none since. If this was a stunt pulled by a few and players were exercising undue influence, do you think guys like Colm Boyle, Lee Keegan, Ger Cafferkey and Andy Moran would stand for it? Do you think if a few players got Rob Hennelly picked for the replay, David Clarke would be back in harness for 2017? 

The interview vindicates the players' heave if anything. Holmes and Connelly showed their management style to be from a bygone era. It's authoritarian and dictatorial. Lines like 'players play and managers manage' show how out of touch they were. It's just as well they were able to find a journalist from a bygone era to do their bidding for them.

There's a place known as The Golden Mile in Ballintubber. Within a very short space of each other you have the O'Connors, Feeneys, Prendergasts and Geraghtys. Paddy Prendergast was full-back on the Mayo All-Ireland winning teams of 1950/51; his brothers Murt and Ray were very good full-backs too and Ray was full-back for Mayo for around a decade in the 60s/70s. Murt's son Tom was a selector with James Horan. The Geraghtys were home to Ger, who was the star of the 1983 Mayo U21 All-Ireland winning teams and was a huge loss to Mayo when he moved to Chicago. John O'Mahony almost had him back in 1989. His nephews Danny and Ray both played county minor. Ger Feeney was reputed to be one of Mayo's best ever defenders, even if he played in the barren 1970s. His sons Richie and Alan played with Mayo and Richie is still on the panel. Both play with Castlebar, where Ger moved to, but Richie is now living back in the family house in Ballintubber. Ger's brother Seán was County Board Secretary for over a decade. Then there's the O'Connors ... Cillian is a current All Star, 19-year-old Diarmuid a huge talent in the Mayo senior squad while Padraic and Ruaidhri both played Minor for Mayo. All four brothers scored goals for Ballintubber in their Mayo SFC semi-final win over Knockmore in September. I'd say less than 300 metres separates all these families and it's a rural area, probably not ten families there. Cranmore is the townland I think. You'll do well to get such a concentration of quality players in so short a space, involving more than one family.

It was 2008 when Tom Parsons was picked to travel to Australia. He was the only Mayo player picked and it was definitely premature for him and did him no favours. But he absolutely has something to offer if he can find his feet.

I'm worried about people saying Keegan is a scoring option for half-forward line. He's a scoring option at half-back, leave him there. Does his best work from there. What to do with Higgins is the big thing. I think he'll be in the forward line for NFL especially with COC and Dillon out injured.

The aim of the league then is to find a couple more defensive options. The six which started the final - Cunniffe, Caff, Barrett; Keegan, Boyle and Vaughan remain our best six there imho (with Higgins further forward of course) and I think we've a better look when Vaughan is on the wing. But we need more options so we're not relying on Higgins moving back and upsetting the entire game plan every time any defender tweaks a hamstring. Horan looks like he's using the FBD to that end - playing Boyle in the full-back line to see if he can be an option there and giving three full-games in the half-back line to Harrison, McHale and D Drake. K Keane and K Rogers got good game time too. Would have liked to seen Alan Feeney get a look-in. He was keeping Caff off the team in 2011 and Caff then was the best full-back in Ireland the next two years (don't mind O'Carroll's All Star). Feeney has to still be good enough, he's only 29 this year. Eoghan O'Reilly is another option.

Midfielders will be two from O'Sheas and Moran.

That leaves Higgins as a proper option for the half-forward line.. Assume that McLoughlin, Cillian and Andy will start and that leaves two more forward places. One of these could be a midfielder pushed forward but likely it will be a half-forward slot between Adam Gallagher, Dillon and Carolan if Cillian plays inside. Or if Cillian is at 11, I agree with Moysider, he was very good there v Galway last year, it's a race for two slots inside alongside Andy. This would between Freeman, Conroy and possibly Coen who had a good FBD.

I'd take a punt on this team

Hennelly

Cunniffe Caff Barrett
Keegan Boyle Vaughan

O'Sheas x 2

McLoughlin Cillian Higgins
Andy Freeman Conroy

I'd agree. All three times will be closely matched. In most other years each county would be strong favourites on their own but the quality of the three county's Under 21 teams this year is very high. Some standard in Connacht.

Adam Gallagher is a huge prospect and I would not be surprised to see him start in the half-forward line for Mayo this summer.

There's some collection of forwards to choose from for that U-21 squad: Evan Regan, James Shaughnessy, Conor O'Shea, Adam Gallagher, Diarmuid O'Connor, Brian Heneghan from Moy Davitts, Tommy Conroy, Liam Irwin, Conor Loftus, Michael Plunkett, Darren Duffy, Kevin Gibbons from Louisburgh, Gareth O'Donnell. I could be forgetting players there too. They'll have some job picking six from there. Two of them may end up at midfield. Probably talking two from O'Shea, Gallagher, O'Connor and O'Donnell.

Defensively I'm not as sure how strong we are but the half-back line from the weekend of Sean Regan (another forward option), Stephen Coen and Cian Burke is strong and very attacking minded. Add in the likes of Mitchels' Patrick Durcan, Mayo Gaels' Kevin Lynch (a young Keith Higgins in the making) and Conor Horan (a fine minor from my memory). There could be plenty more I'm not thinking of here too. Aidan Butler from Claremorris is another one. Very strong U-21 team at our disposal this year.

I've never even seen a bog.


(But hurling puts it in the shade.)

Does that mean you won't get sunburned in the bog so?

Looking forward to the games at the weekend and the draw. Going to head in for them, 25euro for 3 games is pretty good value.
It's the first time I can remember going into a 1/4 draw and not being bothered who we are paired with. Horan and the team will focus and plan accordingly no matter who we are drawn against.

If you're a GAA seasonally ticket holder you have an option to buy premium level tickets for 35euro.

I am but I think I'll go with a few Caaaavan lads I know, they'll be a bit lost around Croker. Could end up in Tolka park if I wasn't with them....

And you won't get them to pay an extra tenner for premium level unless they could fill a suitcase with free food to bring home with them!

Regarding Evan Regan I don't know why he has been dropped but I would be amazed if it was because the County Board told Horan he needed to cut players for cost reasons. Obviously I'd well believe they'd say this to him, but would be amazed if Horan followed their instructions!

Great result for the dual parish    I imagine there were a lot of accumulators that went down with that result!

You're not wrong there! I know one man who was cursing ye something unreal ... but because he had ye backed! Along with Garrymore, Charlestown, Knockmore and Ballina - would have been a nice price.

Jason Doherty, Evan Regan, Michael Conroy, Brian Gallagher, Barry Moran and Danny Geraghty didn't play at the weekend. Andy Moran came on as a sub for Ballagh and looked very lively from what I've heard.
Cillian isn't out for the season as of yet. If he doesn't have surgery until the winter, he could be back anytime between six and 12 weeks depending on the nature of the damage. Surgery would be a very minimum of 12 weeks out, probably longer. Not sure on the extent of Doherty's injury but Mayo need him back pronto for frees.

Is there a clip of this Galway U21 Brazil-type point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfYMUO4_ioo

This might be it. Shane Walsh is a very talented lad but I the defending was poor enough here. Try that against Donegal in the senior championship.

Where did you see defending? There wasn't a single tackle.

Cheers Asal Mor. Yeah, both right about the defending. I'm amazed a Rossie didn't put him through the wire.