Introducing formalised video evidence for player conduct & decision adjudication

[lynchbhoy]

Our games are becoming more competitive than ever, especially as the standard levels out and more counties are capable of winning to at least get to an All Ireland final (given the right draw).
I think the GAA's policy for pouring money into coaching and coaching staff towards kids is paying off. Certainly is for Dublin hurling !
Another good recipient for our GAA money to be used by imo is the installation of CCTV type video cameras in every county ground that coul dbe used as a championship venue. That means 34 ish grounds I'd expect.
Then if a player is reported by whatever new procedure is brought in as having perportrated something that requires review - a retro suspension can be handed out. There will be no whinging about unfairness as there will be a policy and soon I'd hope, all dirty fouls will be eradicated from the game- as players will realise they will be suspended !

Again in my opinion, there have been a few contentious incidents during the season thus far that need something to augment the powers of observation from the ref, his linesmen and his umpires.
I would be in favour of having video replays reviewed by a GAA ref in whatever booth to give the ref a proper opinion on what any decision should be.
An american football style 'three challenges' type scenario could be used - so the game isnt completely cluttered up with stopages.
Again these ideas will cost money to implement, but the assocation has the money for such capital investment and this kind of technology is getting very cheap to buy - and hard disks for storage are cheaper still.
A 'video ref' woul dhave given a quick answer on sunday and the hoo ha and arguing would have stopped instantly on sunday before the final whistle.

Our players and teams and refs train a lot all year round. an Inch is an advantage, we need to shore up loopholes and policy and procedure and if video replays can ascertain if a point was a point or a wide etc through a challenge - I think we go from being the slap happy paddys to an organisation whoi does everything it can to promote fair play and cut out all contention.

Croke park? what do you say?

[Zapatista]

No thank you. Days like the Leinster final are precious few

I'm all for human error in the games. I don't like the idea of further distinction between our club and county games either. It only leads one way.

[lynchbhoy]

Fair enough Zap,
but in my opinion and form my own playing experience, theres nothing worse than feeling cheated out of a game based on a bad decision by a ref. While this is going to remain par for the course in club football, the intercounty stuff is to my mind so serious that human error that can be recified immediately so easily through technology based assistence is no sleight on an official and both teams will accept the result of a 'video ref' in the final seconds of a Leinster SFC final for example!
Leinster finals may be precious few - but eg they are precious fewer for the likes of Louth who would have at least obtained a replay or a victory if we had proper video review procedures in place !

[Denn Forever]

Quote from LB

.....nothing worse than feeling cheated out of a game based on a bad decision by a ref.

What bad decisions could/would be over turned by having video evidence?

How many cameras would need to be at these grounds?  Would these cameras need to be manned or would static cameras suffice?

I'm with Zap on this.

[demusicman]

There is no doubt that changes have to happen.
All of the major debating points this summer have been caused by TRIAL BY TELEVISION.
We all have our opinions one way or another.It is easy doing so having seen incidents in slow motion etc. The Ref has to make a decision as it stands without the help of outside "interference". He has not the same privileges as those viewing at home. Why should he as this is only sport. Are we not all supposed to be better persons as a result of playing games?
As of now a Ref is supposed to fill in his report as he saw the game NOT with the assistance of the camera [Pat Spillane or Tony Davis].
The only answer is immediately after the match [not next day] fill in his report with the assistance of his umpires and linesman. This way we can all enjoy the coverage on TV as we do but it does not change the course of the game.

[fearglasmor]

Its not cameras and a 9th official that is required.

I think the following is all thats needed.

Go with the Ladies version of timekeeping  -  no longer an issue for the ref.

Umpires should be appointed independently by the GAA and not brought along by the ref.

Every Ref, linesman and umpire must take a communications course.

Dont appoint referees to a Provincial final that are not match fit, physically or practice wise. According to todays independent Mr Sludden had only reffed one championship match and zero division one leagus matches in the last season.
Surely on the very best should be appointed to provincial finals.

[lynchbhoy]

Quote from LB
.....nothing worse than feeling cheated out of a game based on a bad decision by a ref.
What bad decisions could/would be over turned by having video evidence?
How many cameras would need to be at these grounds?  Would these cameras need to be manned or would static cameras suffice?
I'm with Zap on this.

from the last couple of weeks we have two/three disputed points in the Galway v Sligo replay game - one point victory by Sligo.
One contentious point in the Cork v waterford hurling draw last weekend.
Then the meath 'goal' in the leinster final.
The 'winner' of all three games decided upon these scores.

I am sure there were more, and I am sure there will be more as this season and future seasons pass. If we use video evidence for scores, then there is no dispute and contention.

To answer the other question - cheap static fixed cameras recording to hard disk will provide the recordings for CCCCCC reviews for reports of player strikin or 'incidents'.
Similar cameras in strategic locations covering three angles of the goals can dolikewise for a 'video ref'.
We could also implement chip/tag technology to determine if a ball has crossed the sideline/endline /goaline or was indeed between the posts for a point.
Imo its a small investment in technology to ensure correctness in scores and results.

Referees are human and they plus officials are suseptible to mistakes.
If technology is set up correctly, it rarely makes mistakes - eg the hawk eye or eagle eye thingy in tennis.

[Main Street]

Could also give more responsibility to the linesmen and make them referees assistants. I saw that McEneaney used Coldrick a few times in the Munster Final, not that it did any good for the Canty incident. Umpires, it would appear, are beyond upgrading.

Use 2 refs for provincial finals and onwards. Or else provide them with binoculars.

[Zapatista]

Its not cameras and a 9th official that is required.

I think the following is all thats needed.

Go with the Ladies version of timekeeping  -  no longer an issue for the ref.

Umpires should be appointed independently by the GAA and not brought along by the ref.

Every Ref, linesman and umpire must take a communications course.

Dont appoint referees to a Provincial final that are not match fit, physically or practice wise. According to todays independent Mr Sludden had only reffed one championship match and zero division one leagus matches in the last season.
Surely on the very best should be appointed to provincial finals.

I go along with this type of change as it's really only tweaking it but would produce better results.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Are we going to have to succumb to/embrace video technology eventually, at some point?

If yes, then let's get to feck on with it; if no, then we'd better build a cast-iron defence, especially after the soccer-heads have fallen over each other to proclaim it the best thing since sliced (Hovis) bread (and like the rugger-buggers had been brawling with the ref about every contentious decision over the past decade, in the sorry absence of same).

For Christ's sake, under no pitifully misguided circumstances, let's not have another debacle like the (eventual) adoption of yellow and red cards, an inevitability that was resisted for many years with threats of self-immolation at the stake of Gaelic Games purity and sanctity, and perdition for all and sundry. Now please do excuse me, whilst I wander down to the shore, to hold this fecking tide back. It makes a right mess of the sandcastles (in the sky), fecker!


Edit And just to put this in perspective, in the time it took Martin Sludden to walk back to his umpire on Sunday last (his distance from the umpire notwithstanding), he could have had communication through on his earpiece from the video-ref advising him that the 'goal' wasn't actually a goal at all. Arguments about interruptions in the game are spurious. We're dealing with modern technology here, not steam-driven smoke-signals.

[Zapatista]

Are we going to have to succumb to/embrace video technology eventually, at some point?

I think it's more of a case of succuming to pressure from the usual places. This incident with the Leinster final was always going to be used to highlight someones agenda. I have no problem with embracing technology (such as whistles and flags) but I do have a problem with it it when it can't be equally used at every venue (reasonably) in the country.

[Hound]

Edit And just to put this in perspective, in the time it took Martin Sludden to walk back to his umpire on Sunday last (his distance from the umpire notwithstanding), he could have had communication through on his earpiece from the video-ref advising him that the 'goal' wasn't actually a goal at all. Arguments about interruptions in the game are spurious. We're dealing with modern technology here, not steam-driven smoke-signals.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again anyway!

A ref has to ask for assistance from a video ref. Sludden would not have asked for assistance on Sunday, so video technology would not have made one iota of a difference last week. Sludden had an umpire who had a perfect view of the incident and who raised his arm (rather than the green flag) to let Sludden know he wanted to give him some information. Sludden refused to even listen to what the umpire had to say and ordered him to put up the green flag. 

It wasnt just Sludden's incompetence that caused the controversy, his arrogance was equally as important.

[Zapatista]

Sludden refused to even listen to what the umpire had to say and ordered him to put up the green flag. 

Dramatic.

[demusicman]

Something now has to come out of this to stop Trial by TV.

[zoyler]

The only way to stop trial by tv is to ban tv - how realistic is that?  The public have come to expext a high level of coverage and this leads inevitably to demands that correct and fair decisions are arrived at.  It has lead to the third umpire in cricket and the video ref in rugby where a lot of mistakes have been ruled out. 
If fairness is what we want whats the problem.  Just because you dont have cameras at all matches should not mean that you can't have fairness where ever possible.  That would be like saying that nobody should be charged over CCTV footage because not every row is covered.