Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[Armagh18]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.

[trueblue1234]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years?  did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I don't disagree that more could have been done. But your dealing with two nations with very entrenched national views. Peace talks would not have been easy.
But Russian's invasion passed a line in the sand. Once they did that, it escalated events. And the west were quite right to intervene at that stage.
If you ask the Ukraines are they thankful for this intervention I believe you would get a resounding yes.

[burdizzo]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.

No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.

[trueblue1234]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.

No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.

The west heavy handed intervention only came about after the Russian invasion. I'd call that fairly heavy handed meddling by the Russians to begin with. So would you not attribute more to their actions than the west's?

[armaghniac]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.

No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.

Will you quit with this bullshit, we are not complete eejits here (bar one or two). "it wasn't all Russia's doing", it never is, but we all know where the balance lies. I might call my neighbour a bollix and he might come and burn my house and kill my family, at some level we are both at fault but that hardly changes the blame.
Ukraine has no war aim other than to remove the invaders from its territory, they are not planning to invade Moscow.

[burdizzo]

Well, you could go back to 2014 with all this, and the western-backed coup then. And what really were their intentions that time? Of course, the invasion was a bit like cracking a nut w/ a sledge-hammer, but as I said earlier in this thread, I believe there was a Turkish-brokered peace-deal on the table very soon afterwards which would have delivered Ukrainian neutrality, and greater "self-rule" for the eastern areas. There was no talk of annexation of these areas (which, in fact, was only done so that Russia could send conscripts there), and no talk of regime change. I understand - from listening to various 'neutral' podcasts - that Zelensky was about to accept this, only the west (and Johnson in particular) talked him out of it with promises of arms, etc. Really, the west was and is pretty gung-ho about all this - very easy when it's not your own population paying in blood.

[burdizzo]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.

No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.

Will you quit with this bullshit, we are not complete eejits here (bar one or two). "it wasn't all Russia's doing", it never is, but we all know where the balance lies. I might call my neighbour a bollix and he might come and burn my house and kill my family, at some level we are both at fault but that hardly changes the blame.
Ukraine has no war aim other than to remove the invaders from its territory, they are not planning to invade Moscow.

I was referring more to the west's war aims, since I consider Ukraine no more than a proxy. Besides, Zelensky is now saying he wants Putin gone - which he wasn't before.

[Armagh18]

no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.

Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.

More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.

I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.

No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.

Unless Ukraine actually attacked Russian soil, I think you have to lay the majority of the blame for the current conflict at Russias door. They crossed into Ukranian territory and the Ukranians should not stop fighting until they've been chased right back across the border. Now whether the West should be taking sides or meddling is another matter.

[Main Street]

Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.


https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.


https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841

should that not have a warning

[Main Street]

Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.


https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841

should that not have a warning

A warning for idiots, perhaps.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.


https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841

should that not have a warning

A warning for idiots, perhaps.

mis information warning..

[Main Street]

There's a Time magazine cover story on Ukraine's Commander in chief of the armed forces, General Valeriy Zaluzhny. https://time.com/6216213/ukraine-military-valeriy-zaluzhny/

He's the single greatest factor in the transformation of the Armed forces, from a soviet era corrupt clodlike army to a modern day innovative and adaptable army.

[burdizzo]

Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.


https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841

should that not have a warning

A warning for idiots, perhaps.

mis information warning..

He probably believes it's genuine!

[PadraicHenryPearse]

There's a Time magazine cover story on Ukraine's Commander in chief of the armed forces, General Valeriy Zaluzhny. https://time.com/6216213/ukraine-military-valeriy-zaluzhny/

He's the single greatest factor in the transformation of the Armed forces, from a soviet era corrupt clodlike army to a modern day innovative and adaptable army.

is that the guy with the swastika on his braclet..