A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Link is here:
https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/265178/a839ee26-16c4-407d-bd5b-327ce0e067f5.pdf#page=null
(Bit surprised they printed in Times New Roman, do they not know its long since been discarded in favour of more dyslexic friendly fonts like Calibri or Tahoma...!)
QuoteThis investment would take the best part of 25 years to deliver, which suggests an annual capital spend of the order of € .27/£1.06bn would be required in addition to existing commitments (2021 prices, excl. VAT). Updated cost estimates in 2023 prices are provided in Appendix B. While significant, these costs would represent a similar annual spend as was committed in the middle of the 2000s when Ireland expanded its motorway network, and they would be shared across both jurisdictions
Would the upgraded rail network deliver the same benefits as the motorway network? I wouldn't think so in terms of transport times or cost - it'd only be in terms of carbon footprint - and that's dependent on the govt getting people off the motorways and onto the trains. Would electrifying the motorways so they'd charge electric cars deliver better "carbon" returns on the investment?
(or more to the point, just delivering point charging infrastructure! https://assets.gov.ie/220099/2ee020ea-99a6-439e-851b-48d0b410e746.pdf)
Other references of interest:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/27/ehighways-could-slash-uk-road-freight-emissions-says-study
There's a decent page/graphic in the review stating current journey times via rail or road compared to the projected journey times for the proposed upgrades and works. Time on virtually all Inter-city routes is vastly reduced and considerably quicker than cars.
Have to laugh at Loyalists on twitter screaming no no never to this. Getting the train from Omagh or Dungannon to Dublin would be huge.
I'd worry about the clientel on that proposed Portadown to Clones line in the summer... :P
Where's the money coming from, they can't even upgrade the road network.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
There are 3 airports in the north , with a railway running close to each. City airport stop involves a quarter mile walk and along side a busy road. The other 2 has no stop
If they can't even sort those 3 stops out, how will a line to Derry from portadown (and other s) ever get built?
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
Arlene is delighted with the broadband she got her constituents
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/try-broadband-dame-arlene-foster-hits-back-at-sdlp-criticism-after-lack-of-rail-services-for-co-fermanagh/a1058080185.html
This report does more harm than good. Instead of having a set of achievable goals and a clear plan for getting there, it is mainly a crayon exercise. There aren't enough trains on the lines that are there and they don't control the gurriers on them. For all the Green party propaganda they have done nothing to advance the likes of the Dublin metro, all they do to block roads and build half baked cycle paths.
Most of the closed routes are not intact, the land was sold off and built on etc and the pathways to the stations in the towns are long gone, there are even GAA grounds built on them.
No matter what's seemingly left in tact, most of the old routes that are closed (and proposed to be re-opened) are essentially starting from scratch. What use is re-opening track along the remnants of 19th century infrastructure? You'd be looking at the very least, 90mph running as a basic prerequisite for any new regional rail corridor. That means long, straight stretches of track which means massive engineering projects and huge outlays.
That said, investment in rail is long overdue and any new projects that do come to fruition should be future-proofed for further capacity. Portadown-Armagh is one that should really be looked into. It's a relatively short, straight route and would compensate for the fact they haven't done anything to address the roads in near 50 years.
Any chance of it coming through south derry. Magherafelt be ideal spot. Instead of having to drive to dungannon or ballymena, or just.... Driving as we do now
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:16:24 AM
This report does more harm than good. Instead of having a set of achievable goals and a clear plan for getting there, it is mainly a crayon exercise. There aren't enough trains on the lines that are there and they don't control the gurriers on them. For all the Green party propaganda they have done nothing to advance the likes of the Dublin metro, all they do to block roads and build half baked cycle paths.
Most of the closed routes are not intact, the land was sold off and built on etc and the pathways to the stations in the towns are long gone, there are even GAA grounds built on them.
Correct. It's farcical. Like we don't even have a government in the North. Buy a good car and treat yourself.
Quote from: markl121 on July 27, 2023, 11:04:29 AM
Any chance of it coming through south derry. Magherafelt be ideal spot. Instead of having to drive to dungannon or ballymena, or just.... Driving as we do now
The report said an inter-city route to Derry up through the Sperrin would be uneconomical due to the build cost.
However I would have thought a Lough Neagh commuter loop, Antrim-Randalstown-Toome-Magherafelt-Cookstown-Dungannon would have a lot of potential to teplace Commuter traffic to Belfast. Similar to the Circle line proposal.
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
How high a bonfire could we build if we just piled it all up? Would it be bigger than Craggyhill?
Not before time but I'll probably have a old person travel pass by the time I'm on a train going through the likes of Cavan and Donegal.
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
There's an entire network of motorways radiating out from Dublin that wasn't there 30 years ago.
In the North there's the Broadway underpass where a surface-level roundabout used to be, the A1 at Newry which is looking more like a motorway in all but name compared to what was there in my day, the Dungiven bypass that was opened lately, and plenty more. There's always plenty of money for roads. Ever notice that?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2023, 09:27:39 AM
There are 3 airports in the north , with a railway running close to each. City airport stop involves a quarter mile walk and along side a busy road. The other 2 has no stop
If they can't even sort those 3 stops out, how will a line to Derry from portadown (and other s) ever get built?
The line by Derry airport is so close to the runway that trains have to wait when there's a plane coming in.
Sydenham rail halt used to be close to the terminal at the Harbour airport, but they moved the terminal without moving the station.
I remember being able to see the tails of the planes from the train on the Knockmore line.
Connecting the north's airports to the rail network is one of the simplest jobs.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:16:24 AM
This report does more harm than good. Instead of having a set of achievable goals and a clear plan for getting there, it is mainly a crayon exercise. There aren't enough trains on the lines that are there and they don't control the gurriers on them. For all the Green party propaganda they have done nothing to advance the likes of the Dublin metro, all they do to block roads and build half baked cycle paths.
Most of the closed routes are not intact, the land was sold off and built on etc and the pathways to the stations in the towns are long gone, there are even GAA grounds built on them.
Most of the routes remain untouched. The only thing built on the Portadown-Armagh line is a handful of farmer's sheds and some easily-moved businesses where the station used to be.
The Portadown-Derry route is mostly clear, even the tunnel into Dungannon is still there. There's a housing estate built on the line to the west of the old station site, but the old line to Cookstown is also mostly clear and could easily become part of a new alignment.
Getting these lines reopened is an entirely achievable goal.
Quote from: markl121 on July 27, 2023, 11:04:29 AM
Any chance of it coming through south derry. Magherafelt be ideal spot. Instead of having to drive to dungannon or ballymena, or just.... Driving as we do now
The old Derry Central line into Magherafelt doesn't seem to be on the list, but it wouldn't be impossible to open it in the longer term. The route is mostly clear apart from the approach to the old Magherafelt station that's largely built over. A new Magherafelt station would need to be in a new location, I think. But that's a bit far down the list of priorities for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7SlH8Q_yR8
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
There's an entire network of motorways radiating out from Dublin that wasn't there 30 years ago.
In the North there's the Broadway underpass where a surface-level roundabout used to be, the A1 at Newry which is looking more like a motorway in all but name compared to what was there in my day, the Dungiven bypass that was opened lately, and plenty more. There's always plenty of money for roads. Ever notice that?
Dungiven bypass - late and over budget... 30m over budget
Underpass at Broadway was part of a larger project to connect M2 and M3 at the end of the Westlink. Unfinished and the traffic jam merely moved up the road.
But granted yes they have built a few roads, over budget and late.
Above all though, we don't even have a functioning government to sign this off!!
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 27, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
Not before time but I'll probably have a old person travel pass by the time I'm on a train going through the likes of Cavan and Donegal.
You'll be dead and buried.
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 04:55:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
There's an entire network of motorways radiating out from Dublin that wasn't there 30 years ago.
In the North there's the Broadway underpass where a surface-level roundabout used to be, the A1 at Newry which is looking more like a motorway in all but name compared to what was there in my day, the Dungiven bypass that was opened lately, and plenty more. There's always plenty of money for roads. Ever notice that?
Dungiven bypass - late and over budget... 30m over budget
Underpass at Broadway was part of a larger project to connect M2 and M3 at the end of the Westlink. Unfinished and the traffic jam merely moved up the road.
But granted yes they have built a few roads, over budget and late.
Above all though, we don't even have a functioning government to sign this off!!
So? Big public works projects often go over budget and run late. They still built it, didn't they? You can drive on it now. Does it matter that it was late and over budget?
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 27, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
Not before time but I'll probably have a old person travel pass by the time I'm on a train going through the likes of Cavan and Donegal.
The senior citizen pass will be no more , in a few years
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 27, 2023, 04:55:46 PM
You'll be dead and buried.
Maybe the same for my grandchildren not born yet also?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2023, 05:26:44 PM
The senior citizen pass will be no more , in a few years
Why is that?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 27, 2023, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 27, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
Not before time but I'll probably have a old person travel pass by the time I'm on a train going through the likes of Cavan and Donegal.
You'll be dead and buried.
We'll all be gone and Mayo will have won the All Ireland in a close final with Antrim.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 27, 2023, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2023, 05:26:44 PM
The senior citizen pass will be no more , in a few years
Why is that?
All the old people will have died?
They've been trying to get rid of the free travel Pass for years. It's only a matter of time before it goes
Same with the free tv license . Those pensioners are costing too much , so they are.
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
They've been trying to get rid of the free travel Pass for years. It's only a matter of time before it goes
Same with the free tv license . Those pensioners are costing too much , so they are.
The trend is to cut costs for public transport, not increase it. Pensioners often use service at off peak times when there is space.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
They'll be able to reopen the stop the Athletic Grounds in Armagh
(https://i.ibb.co/QnPRGTS/48258561826-3d1b25498e-c.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 05:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 27, 2023, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 27, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
Not before time but I'll probably have a old person travel pass by the time I'm on a train going through the likes of Cavan and Donegal.
You'll be dead and buried.
We'll all be gone and Mayo will have won the All Ireland in a close final with Antrim.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 27, 2023, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2023, 05:26:44 PM
The senior citizen pass will be no more , in a few years
Why is that?
All the old people will have died?
Mayo winning Sam is a bit far-fetched.
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
They've been trying to get rid of the free travel Pass for years. It's only a matter of time before it goes
Same with the free tv license . Those pensioners are costing too much , so they are.
Upsetting pensioners is never the smartest idea for any government.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 06:49:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
They'll be able to reopen the stop the Athletic Grounds in Armagh
(https://i.ibb.co/QnPRGTS/48258561826-3d1b25498e-c.jpg)
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
Googled the location of the Armagh to Keady and Clones lines and some bloke called Eamonn seems to have made some useful YouTube videos. :)
Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 07:38:00 PM
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
That line was one of the last to open and the section to 'Blayney was only open for 12 years. So it was probably the least feasible line in Ireland. However, I think the Tassagh viaduct was one of the first concrete railway viaducts in Ireland. If you reopen it then you'd have have a slight problem getting into the stand in the Athletic grounds.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:40:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 07:38:00 PM
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
That line was one of the last to open and the section to 'Blayney was only open for 12 years. So it was probably the least feasible line in Ireland. However, I think the Tassagh viaduct was one of the first concrete railway viaducts in Ireland. If you reopen it then you'd have have a slight problem getting into the stand in the Athletic grounds.
Correct, I think it was the shortest-lived line. Times are different now though. There's a tourist industry that wasn't there when the line was operating, so connecting Armagh to Dublin via Dundalk would have more value today.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:40:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 07:38:00 PM
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
That line was one of the last to open and the section to 'Blayney was only open for 12 years. So it was probably the least feasible line in Ireland. However, I think the Tassagh viaduct was one of the first concrete railway viaducts in Ireland. If you reopen it then you'd have have a slight problem getting into the stand in the Athletic grounds.
Correct, I think it was the shortest-lived line. Times are different now though. There's a tourist industry that wasn't there when the line was operating, so connecting Armagh to Dublin via Dundalk would have more value today.
You could rebuild the line through the Lisummon tunnel and hope that the trains can go up the hill nowadays.
How many tourists go on the train from Dublin to Kilkenny each day?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 05:13:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 04:55:30 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2023, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 04:31:15 AM
A lot to unpack in the All Ireland Rail Review. Some ambitious goals there, which is nice to see. Plenty of fodder for the "it will never happen" crowd but that's inevitable.
People have got to understand that a lot of these dormant routes remain untouched. Most of the tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts, and even a lot of the bridges are still intact. A lot of the cost of building a railway is flattening the land, and this was already done for us over 150 years ago. Reopening lines like Portadown-Armagh and Portadown-Derry via Omagh are entirely achievable. It wasn't so long ago that there wasn't many miles of motorway in the south, now there's a whole network of them. Governments are well able to deliver big infrastructure projects when they put their minds to it.
Time to think big again, and this time do it for rail. There's not enough room in cities for cars and the days of building everything around them need to come to an end.
Yes of course we are. In the north alone we can point to such fantastic infrastructure projects such as Not the A5, Not the North South interconnector, Not the expansion of waste water treatment and Not Casement Park.
We are in such a strong position to deliver this. In reality we'd get more use out of the 35b if we just set fire to it.
By the time they complete all the archaeological digs, toad surveys and evacuation plans, trains will be obsolete again anyway.
There's an entire network of motorways radiating out from Dublin that wasn't there 30 years ago.
In the North there's the Broadway underpass where a surface-level roundabout used to be, the A1 at Newry which is looking more like a motorway in all but name compared to what was there in my day, the Dungiven bypass that was opened lately, and plenty more. There's always plenty of money for roads. Ever notice that?
Dungiven bypass - late and over budget... 30m over budget
Underpass at Broadway was part of a larger project to connect M2 and M3 at the end of the Westlink. Unfinished and the traffic jam merely moved up the road.
But granted yes they have built a few roads, over budget and late.
Above all though, we don't even have a functioning government to sign this off!!
So? Big public works projects often go over budget and run late. They still built it, didn't they? You can drive on it now. Does it matter that it was late and over budget?
They did. But this is a different level altogether. But we've two glaring problems even above our incompetence is that
1) We have no government
2) We simply don't have the money or at least we don't have railways as a priority over other needs
But Boris Johnson's bridge...
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:40:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 07:38:00 PM
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
That line was one of the last to open and the section to 'Blayney was only open for 12 years. So it was probably the least feasible line in Ireland. However, I think the Tassagh viaduct was one of the first concrete railway viaducts in Ireland. If you reopen it then you'd have have a slight problem getting into the stand in the Athletic grounds.
Doomed Railways like the GNR lasted until the mid 50s. The logic went over to cars. Now petrol is toxic.
A good resource to show where the old railways run. Looks like most of the route through Omagh is now part of the by-pass so it would be a new route needed there.
https://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php
Quote from: Orior on July 28, 2023, 10:41:10 AM
But Boris Johnson's bridge...
That must be finished by now, is it not?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 28, 2023, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 28, 2023, 10:41:10 AM
But Boris Johnson's bridge...
That must be finished by now, is it not?
More chance of it being built than these railway lines !
Quote from: LeoMc on July 28, 2023, 01:55:46 PM
A good resource to show where the old railways run. Looks like most of the route through Omagh is now part of the by-pass so it would be a new route needed there.
https://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php
Reopening the Derry-Portadown line through Omagh would mean building the part of the A5 dual carriageway that bypasses Omagh.
Quote from: LeoMc on July 28, 2023, 01:55:46 PM
A good resource to show where the old railways run. Looks like most of the route through Omagh is now part of the by-pass so it would be a new route needed there.
https://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php
It's a great resource. Also shows canals, trolley bus systems (Belfast was the only city in Ireland to have them), and military airfields. https://www.railmaponline.com/
The historic ordnance survey maps are more accurate though, but it takes a while to get the hang of using the viewer: https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/search-proni-historical-maps-viewer
I find it fascinating to look at the lost roads around Lurgan and Portadown that were wiped off the map by the new city. It explains a lot of the strange little dead ends around the place.
Quote from: Orior on July 28, 2023, 10:41:10 AM
But Boris Johnson's bridge...
Can I just shock you, I liked the bridge, I wish it was being built
I'm not a fan as such but it seems to be the way of the world. Could both governments not seek Chinese/Arab investment in such infrastructure? The Chinese are definitely help fund key UK assets such as Hinckley nuclear facility and high speed 2. Could that be viable?
I just popped forward in my Tardis to 2030, or was it 2040 the dial was broken, and took a picture of the Keady train laden with tourists going to Armagh.
(https://i.ibb.co/qn92CD6/keadytrain.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on July 28, 2023, 10:10:23 PM
I just popped forward in my Tardis to 2030, or was it 2040 the dial was broken, and took a picture of the Keady train laden with tourists going to Armagh.
(https://i.ibb.co/qn92CD6/keadytrain.jpg)
Keady must playing Cuchulainn's in the big local hurling derby.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 28, 2023, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 28, 2023, 01:55:46 PM
A good resource to show where the old railways run. Looks like most of the route through Omagh is now part of the by-pass so it would be a new route needed there.
https://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php
Reopening the Derry-Portadown line through Omagh would mean building the part of the A5 dual carriageway that bypasses Omagh.
A new railway does not have to follow the path of the old one. A new line could run south of Omagh along side the proposed road or it could loop round the north of the town.
Yeah but when you factor in the cost if clearing a path for a new one it would add god knows what to the cost
Quote from: An Watcher on July 29, 2023, 09:21:25 AM
Yeah but when you factor in the cost if clearing a path for a new one it would add god knows what to the cost
Much of the existing track through Omagh is under the great Northern road, the Omagh through pass. Replacing that road could cost a lot more than laying a new track.
When they vest the land and level it for that section of the A5 why not take and do twice the width.
The new Omagh station would be well out of town then, somewhere like Lough Muck.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 29, 2023, 12:12:19 PM
The new Omagh station would be well out of town then, somewhere like Lough Muck.
Not necessarily, the station could be accessed by a spur off the main line, running alongside the Dromore road, maybe to the Sacred Heart playing fields, much as the original one was. However the original spur line run through where Dunnes is now.
Anyway these are all semantics unless significant funds are found to secure the route.
Suppose another question worth asking is...
If the majority of people on the trains would be commuters, and they are commuting to office jobs (reasonable assumption given tradesmen need a van full of gear) - would much of the benefit be derived by forcing companies* into either letting people work from home, or by having multiple regional offices within easy commute of the employee rather than all centralised to a city or two?
Which coincidentally would also do wonders for the rural economy.
*if big companies expect the govt to support them by providing all the infrastructure to transport their employees to one central very congested hub without a compelling reason (i.e. its a manufacturing site as opposed to the back-offices of a bank), then tax the shite out of them for it.
Local commuter rail is not factored in. It is aimed at main-line or inter-city services.
Any commuter rail would be a bonus.
Quote from: LeoMc on July 29, 2023, 05:56:54 PM
Local commuter rail is not factored in. It is aimed at main-line or inter-city services.
Any commuter rail would be a bonus.
What's the majority of people on these? Leisure travel or business travel?
Over in London this weekend, the rail system, while parts are on strike lol, is fantastic, cost is probably a reason but if you live on a commuter belt you'd never drive to work (depending on type of job of course)
I live 10 minutes walk from a train station and rarely use it unless I'm going into town for drinks, I work in two places with train stations I could link to, but it's too much hassle, the car gets me there quicker!
If the network was better or more frequent it would be used more often, who's going to invest in something that will take decades to break even, if it's lucky
I commute on the train, used to drive 10 mins to the station until I moved to where I am now, 10 min walk away. There are people from Dungannon, Armagh etc drive to Portadown to get the train. If they build it, it will get used. Translink need to put on night trains past 11pm but obviously don't fancy the hassle which is a shame.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 30, 2023, 07:45:00 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 29, 2023, 05:56:54 PM
Local commuter rail is not factored in. It is aimed at main-line or inter-city services.
Any commuter rail would be a bonus.
What's the majority of people on these? Leisure travel or business travel?
I think they are hoping for a lot more freight.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 30, 2023, 07:45:00 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 29, 2023, 05:56:54 PM
Local commuter rail is not factored in. It is aimed at main-line or inter-city services.
Any commuter rail would be a bonus.
What's the majority of people on these? Leisure travel or business travel?
Free Travel!
Most freight has emissions levels that are no longer acceptable. Climate change will change everything. Rail is a relatively simple change unless for FG heads.
I hear my train a comin', it's rolling 'round the bend (well almost),
I haven't seen a train since I don't know when.
(https://monaghan.ie/library/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2016/11/BALLYBAYTRAINSTATION-750x500_c.jpg)
And now
the signal shed is still in decent nick though the station could do with a once over.
(http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Ballybay/slides/Ballybay_20060623_0001_CC.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tMSgi0SGw
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:40:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 07:38:00 PM
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
That line was one of the last to open and the section to 'Blayney was only open for 12 years. So it was probably the least feasible line in Ireland. However, I think the Tassagh viaduct was one of the first concrete railway viaducts in Ireland. If you reopen it then you'd have have a slight problem getting into the stand in the Athletic grounds.
Correct, I think it was the shortest-lived line. Times are different now though. There's a tourist industry that wasn't there when the line was operating, so connecting Armagh to Dublin via Dundalk would have more value today.
You could rebuild the line through the Lisummon tunnel and hope that the trains can go up the hill nowadays.
How many tourists go on the train from Dublin to Kilkenny each day?
The Lisummon tunnel is on the old Armagh-Newry via Markethill line. The only thing on top of that route is Hunter's shop in Markethill that was extended in the wrong direction. Markethill station is still there and I think it's a private residence now. If the Armagh-Newry road gets busy enough then you'd see more pressure to reopen that line, but reopening Portadown-Armagh would need to happen first.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 31, 2023, 09:35:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2023, 10:40:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 27, 2023, 07:38:00 PM
That Armagh-Keady line should be reopenable, and it would indeed go right beside the Atheltic Grounds where you could put in a halt. Most of the old route through the middle of Armagh is surprisingly clear. It'd be a bit tricky to get a new route past the houses on Rock Rd that were built on top of the old alignment, but not impossible. Might be better to just pick a new route to Keady, but it would be sensational to see modern trains running on the Tassagh Viaduct.
That line was one of the last to open and the section to 'Blayney was only open for 12 years. So it was probably the least feasible line in Ireland. However, I think the Tassagh viaduct was one of the first concrete railway viaducts in Ireland. If you reopen it then you'd have have a slight problem getting into the stand in the Athletic grounds.
Correct, I think it was the shortest-lived line. Times are different now though. There's a tourist industry that wasn't there when the line was operating, so connecting Armagh to Dublin via Dundalk would have more value today.
You could rebuild the line through the Lisummon tunnel and hope that the trains can go up the hill nowadays.
How many tourists go on the train from Dublin to Kilkenny each day?
The Lisummon tunnel is on the old Armagh-Newry via Markethill line. The only thing on top of that route is Hunter's shop in Markethill that was extended in the wrong direction. Markethill station is still there and I think it's a private residence now. If the Armagh-Newry road gets busy enough then you'd see more pressure to reopen that line, but reopening Portadown-Armagh would need to happen first.
Also one of the first lines to close to passengers. Not many people want to go to Armagh.
I dunno, the roads in and out of it always seem plenty busy enough.