China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

In fairness to Angelo, he's not a million miles away from what's probably likely to happen.

This circuit breaker is a nonsense, it looks like they are buying time to try and ease up on the NHS (And as a result, a semi normal Xmas) which is fair enough. If they have to do it, let them work away. But they have ruined untold numbers of people here. I believe we'll soon start to see a revolt against this type of thing going forward if they plan another in say January.

People can be revolting if they want, but if they oppose this plan then they have to have another one.

It's not a long term solution though, by reopening in whatever weeks it is, the numbers will begin to creep up again....we'll be basically having this same conversation until if and indeed when, there is a vaccine. And even then, not many of the people reading this will see it for maybe 1 to 2 years considering worldwide demand and their age profile, if they ever do considering the vast majority will probably never even know they have / have had it.

No reason why a vaccine should not be distributed to all in 2021, a lot of work has been done to prime production and even to produce vaccines in advance of the approval. The first vaccine may not exterminate the virus, but it will brings things under control.

This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

I appreciate your optimism but I think the virus is here to stay for the long run and it's just a matter of people having to live with it. We should have answers from the second wave of how damaging it is. Around February 2021 we will have seen the cost of what has happened in the past few weeks and presumably whatever continues into the winter period.

What's for sure is we can't afford these constant states of flux with lockdowns and opening up and lockdowns and opening up so hopefully the best case scenario comes through with the second wave. These are certainly deflating times.

[Ed Ricketts]

This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

Maybe there'll be a resetting of minds when we're through the other side of this. When the realities of how our behaviours have consequences for others become even more conspicuous. That would be a good outcome.

[Saffrongael]

Just hitting the like button Ed Ricketss, that's about it - you can have whatever policy or restrictions you want but if people ignore it what can you really do? People are just c***ts

[Franko]

It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

[Franko]

This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

Maybe there'll be a resetting of minds when we're through the other side of this. When the realities of how our behaviours have consequences for others become even more conspicuous. That would be a good outcome.

+1

Always looking to be the victim and unwilling to take any personal responsibility.

Interesting  that those most vociferous in their objection to the 'rules' are invariably those who pretend to care most about the small businesses that these rules are there to protect.

[BennyCake]

This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

Maybe there'll be a resetting of minds when we're through the other side of this. When the realities of how our behaviours have consequences for others become even more conspicuous. That would be a good outcome.

100% right, Ed.

[armaghniac]

This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

Very good point. When mass testing is introduced, I'd suggest they take over several hotels and invite people to spend their 14 days there, with free Netflix.

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

If people ease to f**k up then most things can go on with out the virus getting out of control. It is like driving, if you don't drink while driving, keep your distance, ease up a little bit and watch out for people, then we can all drive about our business and not get killed by 2 tonne yokes going along at 120Kmh. If you drive like a Finn, the roads are pretty safe, if you drive like a Somali, they are pretty unsafe. People's behaviour makes the difference.

[Angelo]

It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.

[HiMucker]

But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.

Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.

[JoG2]

But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.

Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.

Altnagelvin has ICU 10 beds with a surge capacity increasing capacity to 20. This has been in place since April

[restorepride]

It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.

This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

[macdanger2]

On the flu/covid point, it's worth remembering that we have a vaccine for the flu which is effective for the majority of people

[Franko]

It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/24/dna-sleuths-read-coronavirus-genome-tracing-origins-and-mutations/
This happened on 10th Jan 2020.
I'll not await an apology, as I'm quite sure that will be beyond someone of such primitive nature.

Not sure how to unpack the rest of your rant but I'd have to say that it takes some weird mental gymnastics to describe those who take their views from countless peer reviewed scientific papers as 'blowhards', yet those who take the opposite view are 'grounded in rational' (lol).  To say that 'we can't say anything with certainty on Covid' is also demonstrably wrong.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that governments need to focus on how to live with this (at least in the medium term).  Or indeed that we will gain more knowledge about this disease with time.  These are two inane pieces of information which you seem to feel the need to repeat consistently as if you have just conjured some sort of intellectual magic trick.  Nobody was impressed the first time and they are getting less so.

Governments will try to decide what they deem an acceptable level of death in the short term.  Which is EXACTLY what they are currently doing (badly).  They seem to have decided (as most Govt's have) that an acceptable level is roughly where we were at before this disease appeared.  Given that the measure by which we judge the performance of the Govt (mostly) is the 'Excess Deaths' figure, it would seem that, subconsciously at least, most people agree.  In the long term though, it will not be Governments who decide the acceptable fatality levels.  People will decide, either individually, or as a collective.

Finally, given that I said 'They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure', your last sentence fits in well with the drivel above it.

[HiMucker]

But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.

Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.

Altnagelvin has ICU 10 beds with a surge capacity increasing capacity to 20. This has been in place since April

Cheers for that Jog. I've heard that figure of 5 repeated several times, so not sure what it's in relation to. My general point in relation to the numbers of beds etc is that they have remained the same since April even with the near certainty of second and third waves.  Now I'm all for arguing that this should have been increased, but it wasn't, so it doesn't take much time before "the let her rip" strategy brings the hospital to its knees.

[Angelo]

It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.

This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.