Neil Francis and gay sportspeople

[johnneycool]

I suppose morons like Trevor Francis should be heard  and just get that whole prejudiced crap out into the open and take it apart bit by bit.

I suppose the question is why do they have to hide it? As opposed to flaunting Gay Pride, which I find to be a bit OTT sometimes, why does anyone have to hide their sexual orientation. I'm not talking about being proud of it, or any other glib nonsense, but the fact that a sportsman 'coming out' is big news still shows why they do it that way. I've never seen a sportsman come out as being heterosexual. (Paul Galvin came out at Metrosexual but that's a different story entirely).

I agree it shouldn't be a big deal, and I also agree that sometimes the coming out is overplayed, but I think it's only overplayed to try and speed up the normalisation process.

Do you think Cusack coming out publicly as gay was OTT or just the way it was going to be, the way it needed to be?
There are 2 points to be considered, the prevailing attitudes in the environment and engrained self esteem issues.

It's good that Francis came out publicly about his attitudes to gays so that his prejudices could quite plainly be dissected and ridiculed for all to see.
It couldn't happen to a more deserving candidate

Who gives the big moron the forums to air his ill-informed views on anything let alone rugby?

[Cold tea]

Is it all about c**k - apart from martina navratilova can't recall too many women sports people shouting they like chewing the carpet.

Most ladies sports are not as high profile therfore it is not as newsworthy but you don't even have to go back a month. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26084748

And did anyone gave a flying one about her sexuality, when is the next heterosexual pride march.  Attention seeking doesn't come close.

[AZOffaly]

I suppose the question is why do they have to hide it? As opposed to flaunting Gay Pride, which I find to be a bit OTT sometimes, why does anyone have to hide their sexual orientation. I'm not talking about being proud of it, or any other glib nonsense, but the fact that a sportsman 'coming out' is big news still shows why they do it that way. I've never seen a sportsman come out as being heterosexual. (Paul Galvin came out at Metrosexual but that's a different story entirely).

I agree it shouldn't be a big deal, and I also agree that sometimes the coming out is overplayed, but I think it's only overplayed to try and speed up the normalisation process.

Do you think Cusack coming out publicly as gay was OTT or just the way it was going to be, the way it needed to be?
There are 2 points to be considered, the prevailing attitudes in the environment and engrained self esteem issues.

It's good that Francis came out publicly about his attitudes to gays so that his prejudices could quite plainly be dissected and ridiculed for all to see.
It couldn't happen to a more deserving candidate

As I said, nobody should need to 'come out' at all. And the reason they do, and the reason they accept the publicity that brings, is so that they can live their life in normal afterwards. The reason why some of these 'outings' are overplayed is so that future athletes will have it a bit easier, and so on until it becomes not newsworthy, or normalised. I think Donal Óg probably did a lot of good to other young fellas in the same situation.

[fearglasmor]

Its just another facet of progressive thinking v's human nature. One seeks to celebrate difference the other hates it.
We are a conflicted species and most likely always will be.

Its not for nothing we came up with the normal distribution curve.

[seafoid]

I suppose morons like Trevor Francis should be heard  and just get that whole prejudiced crap out into the open and take it apart bit by bit.

I suppose the question is why do they have to hide it? As opposed to flaunting Gay Pride, which I find to be a bit OTT sometimes, why does anyone have to hide their sexual orientation. I'm not talking about being proud of it, or any other glib nonsense, but the fact that a sportsman 'coming out' is big news still shows why they do it that way. I've never seen a sportsman come out as being heterosexual. (Paul Galvin came out at Metrosexual but that's a different story entirely).

I agree it shouldn't be a big deal, and I also agree that sometimes the coming out is overplayed, but I think it's only overplayed to try and speed up the normalisation process.

Do you think Cusack coming out publicly as gay was OTT or just the way it was going to be, the way it needed to be?
There are 2 points to be considered, the prevailing attitudes in the environment and engrained self esteem issues.

It's good that Francis came out publicly about his attitudes to gays so that his prejudices could quite plainly be dissected and ridiculed for all to see.
It couldn't happen to a more deserving candidate

Who gives the big moron the forums to air his ill-informed views on anything let alone rugby?

Cusack said on the late late that he was in a gay club somewhere and someone asked him if he was the Cork goalie and he denied it and that was what started the process of him coming out. He didn't want to deny it any longer.
I think he was very inspiring to a lot of rural gay people. Sort of like the brother talking about depression.
Very impressive family, in fairness

[Gabriel_Hurl]

(Paul Galvin came out at Metrosexual but that's a different story entirely).

How does one come out as metrosexual?

[AZOffaly]

Like this

[Main Street]

I suppose the question is why do they have to hide it? As opposed to flaunting Gay Pride, which I find to be a bit OTT sometimes, why does anyone have to hide their sexual orientation. I'm not talking about being proud of it, or any other glib nonsense, but the fact that a sportsman 'coming out' is big news still shows why they do it that way. I've never seen a sportsman come out as being heterosexual. (Paul Galvin came out at Metrosexual but that's a different story entirely).

I agree it shouldn't be a big deal, and I also agree that sometimes the coming out is overplayed, but I think it's only overplayed to try and speed up the normalisation process.

Do you think Cusack coming out publicly as gay was OTT or just the way it was going to be, the way it needed to be?
There are 2 points to be considered, the prevailing attitudes in the environment and engrained self esteem issues.

It's good that Francis came out publicly about his attitudes to gays so that his prejudices could quite plainly be dissected and ridiculed for all to see.
It couldn't happen to a more deserving candidate

As I said, nobody should need to 'come out' at all. And the reason they do, and the reason they accept the publicity that brings, is so that they can live their life in normal afterwards. The reason why some of these 'outings' are overplayed is so that future athletes will have it a bit easier, and so on until it becomes not newsworthy, or normalised. I think Donal Óg probably did a lot of good to other young fellas in the same situation.

Afaia, Donal Og came out because he was preempting the issue. He was pushed into a corner which presumes the publicity factor was an unknown and the thought of it probably inspired a lot of apprehension for him.
Yes, nobody should have to come out, but go back to the time before Donal Og came out and  the question existed about how does a society move to a situation where nobody has to come out? A pioneer coming out will attract attention for a variety of reasons.
As I said, the issues are twofold,  the personal issues that Donal Og had to confront and the issues (of ignorance and prejudice) that exist on a social level.
Both personal and social issues have to be confronted and laid bare. In that there is no doubt that Donal Og did a lot of good.
I don't recall any big  coming outs in Ireland or neighbouring lands, just the  newsworthy coming outs of pioneers like that rugby player and Cusack.
I don't follow whats happening in the USA.

[Eamonnca1]

I think the point of gay pride and the 'coming out' business is for it to become so commonplace that in future we'll return* to a time when it'll be considered no big deal what your sexual preferences are. Nobody will have to 'come out' because they won't feel any pressure to be 'in' in the first place.  Gay pride parades are an act of defiance in cultures where homosexual or bisexual behaviour is or was suppressed, and I think the intention of them is to let gay people know that there's no need to stay in the closet.  It's like the atheist billboards doing the rounds in America at the minute reassuring atheists in religiously-dominated areas that it's okay to be an atheist and that they're not alone.

* Yes, return to a time when it's no big deal. The idea that there's something wrong with homosexual behaviour is a relatively recent invention. In ancient Rome and ancient Greece nobody gave a toss.

[Cold tea]

I think the point of gay pride and the 'coming out' business is for it to become so commonplace that in future we'll return* to a time when it'll be considered no big deal what your sexual preferences are. Nobody will have to 'come out' because they won't feel any pressure to be 'in' in the first place.  Gay pride parades are an act of defiance in cultures where homosexual or bisexual behaviour is or was suppressed, and I think the intention of them is to let gay people know that there's no need to stay in the closet.  It's like the atheist billboards doing the rounds in America at the minute reassuring atheists in religiously-dominated areas that it's okay to be an atheist and that they're not alone.

* Yes, return to a time when it's no big deal. The idea that there's something wrong with homosexual behaviour is a relatively recent invention. In ancient Rome and ancient Greece nobody gave a toss.

Bad choice off words.     Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

[gallsman]

I think the point of gay pride and the 'coming out' business is for it to become so commonplace that in future we'll return* to a time when it'll be considered no big deal what your sexual preferences are. Nobody will have to 'come out' because they won't feel any pressure to be 'in' in the first place.  Gay pride parades are an act of defiance in cultures where homosexual or bisexual behaviour is or was suppressed, and I think the intention of them is to let gay people know that there's no need to stay in the closet.  It's like the atheist billboards doing the rounds in America at the minute reassuring atheists in religiously-dominated areas that it's okay to be an atheist and that they're not alone.

* Yes, return to a time when it's no big deal. The idea that there's something wrong with homosexual behaviour is a relatively recent invention. In ancient Rome and ancient Greece nobody gave a toss.

Bad choice off words.     Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

You sure you're not repressing anything? You seem particular fascinated with other lads

[The Iceman]

there are probably 3 or 4 threads out of this one.
gallsman you are getting a bit wound up from my contribution earlier in fairness. My question was/is about the motives of the "coming out" I think part of it is for the increased attention. I am not discounting their is honest desire to live out their life as they want to either but I think a lot of it is attention seeking.

@eamonn you can argue for and against all day that it's natural or its not. But if you argue its natural because it was common practice and exists still today then you have to keep the door open for the likes of pedophilia which was common practice in greek and roman times (seeing as you want to use that era) and exists today..... and has been suggested to be listed as a sexual orientation by psychological schools.....

bottom line in all of my points is there should be no need to come out. just be the sports person.

[seafoid]

I think the point of gay pride and the 'coming out' business is for it to become so commonplace that in future we'll return* to a time when it'll be considered no big deal what your sexual preferences are. Nobody will have to 'come out' because they won't feel any pressure to be 'in' in the first place.  Gay pride parades are an act of defiance in cultures where homosexual or bisexual behaviour is or was suppressed, and I think the intention of them is to let gay people know that there's no need to stay in the closet.  It's like the atheist billboards doing the rounds in America at the minute reassuring atheists in religiously-dominated areas that it's okay to be an atheist and that they're not alone.

* Yes, return to a time when it's no big deal. The idea that there's something wrong with homosexual behaviour is a relatively recent invention. In ancient Rome and ancient Greece nobody gave a toss.

Bad choice off words.     Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

What about cunnilingus? Or Aer Lingus ?

[Main Street]

there are probably 3 or 4 threads out of this one.
gallsman you are getting a bit wound up from my contribution earlier in fairness. My question was/is about the motives of the "coming out" I think part of it is for the increased attention. I am not discounting their is honest desire to live out their life as they want to either but I think a lot of it is attention seeking.

It's a curiosity how you consider seeking a lot of attention was part of the motivation for just about the only Irish sportsman to come out,  before he himself was outed. And considering, for the previous 20 years of his existence he lived in fear of attention to that very issue. Was there possibly some  overwhelming catharsis,  coupled with an overwhelming desire for nationwide attention 'look at me, look at my issues'?
Is there any resemblance between your thoughts on the matter and the reality of the experience for Donal Og?

[LeoMc]

Is it all about c**k - apart from martina navratilova can't recall too many women sports people shouting they like chewing the carpet.

Most ladies sports are not as high profile therfore it is not as newsworthy but you don't even have to go back a month. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26084748

And did anyone gave a flying one about her sexuality, when is the next heterosexual pride march.  Attention seeking doesn't come close.

Was Donal Og attention seeking when he came out?
Was Conor attention seeking when he talked about depression?
Was Oisin attention seeking when he talked about his gambling addiction?

IMO in each case they showed bravery in coming out and talking about something which is seen as shameful by many and which is brushed under the carpet or kept hidden to the detriment of the mental health of those who are gay / depressed / addicted.