Glenswilly 0-3 St Eunan's 0-2 : The lowest scoring GAA match ever?

[dublin7]

These negative tactics don't work. Teams have figured  it out and all it does at best against good sides is maybe keep the score down. You're obviously far smarter than me if you can somehow point out how keeping 15 men inside your own half can  be considered a positive move to win the game.

Abbey didnt win the game. They wouldnt have learned anything playing that so what exactly did they achieve? If the only aim was to qualifying for the next stage by keeping down the margin of defeat why bother even entering it? We can only hope the other managers in the competition dont share your negative attitude or god help us

[Maiden1]

Did the Abbey qualify from the group by only losing by 1 point or how did it finish up? It looks almost like both teams were happy enough to take the result a bit like Germany Austria in 1982 in world cup group were Germany just kicked the ball around and they both qualified.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1n9WQYq7u9M

[Chief]

So where do we draw the line? What happens in the next round or next year? If the opposition teams keep doing this to teams like Maghera then if I was one of the Maghera lads Id go play football or rugby every week rather than have to play against  that. No enjoyment in it and that is what is shoild be about at that level. Sad thing the GAA would be the biggest losers as the best players would be lost to the sport

I fully agree. It's not an ideal situation. But don't blame the players or the coaches for this. The coaches are not breaking any rules doing it. Blame the GAA for this as they refuse to address the main issue with this defensive craze - bodies. They have done next to nothing to create a rule to get all the bodies out of the defence which would help to sort this problem out once and for all.

You seem to be claiming that because management didn't break any rules then they are not to blame for the way Abbey set themselves up. Pure nonsense.

The coaches are absolutely to blame in this instance.

All the GAA do is make the rules of the game, they are not in charge of tactics. The manager picks the team and gives the instructions to the team about how to play. As I understand it,  the logic was to keep the score down so they could qualify, a different set of rules would only have meant the Abbey went hyper defensive in a different way.

The spectacle we witnessed was exclusively the fault of the management.

.

Of course it was the management who decided and implemented these tactics, when did I deny that? But let's be honest, Coaches have exploited and outsmarted the GAA rule book and in some ways, fair play to them as they have thought outside the box (Moreso the original introducers of it like McGuinness rather than the recent coaches who are just copying it). But the GAA have sat up and accepted it and not thought outside the box themselves in trying to counteract it. And it will continue to happen until the GAA sort it out and make a rule to stop it.

It's one thing implementing these defensive systems if you're an intercounty manager under intense scrutiny or a club manager (probably getting paid) for results. It's something else when an U15 manager of a school team sees himself as the next Mourinho and sends out a team of kids to play like that. Sad thing is he was probably boasting about it in the pub last night.

At that age group it should be about improving kids skill levels and the principal should get someone else to manage the team. What's next? Should we expect to see kids playing sweeper in mini games during half time at senior games?

Well when we see school managers / schools getting abuse and pressure on social media about failing to win things (as has been the case recently on social media) then I can at least show some
Understanding as to why a manager is going out to win. Then I see things on twitter about certain managers need to be put #(InsertManagersName - Out) and then again I see why school team  managers are trying to win things when after all the teaching aspect of their job is the main priority with the GAA being second, the GAA where they give so much of their free time to outside working teaching hours being used to encourage ousting them.

And you simply say the principal should get someone in to improve the skills. You obviously have no understanding of how schools work so you really shouldn't  be spoofing on here about that. Being successful with football teams I.e winning things is used as one way of attracting pupils to enrol in schools in order to keep numbers up. Children can pick a school who provides sport and is successful at sport. So that is further pressure on GAA schools managers  to win and part of reason why matches like Friday's match occur.

I wouldn't subject my son to football like that. Obviously not everyone can be a football coach, but ANY IDIOT can stand on a sideline and tell the whole team just to stay in their own half and defend.

As the school principal he or she clearly can't tell the manager who to pick or what tactics to implement, but he or she can say I don't want our school playing such a defensive way. When I was in school the teams were coached by a teacher who didn't get paid so I'd get another teacher to do the job. He or she might not win the U15 title, but at least the kids would enjoy playing the game. I mean if you think parents are going to enroll their kids in a school to play football like that then you really have joined the cult of McGuinness and I feel sorry for you

"As the school principal he or she clearly can't tell the manager who to pick or what tactics to implement, but he or she can say I don't want our school playing such a defensive way. " - ah here this is actually funny now. Within the same sentence you say a principal can't tell the manager what tactics to implement then say the principal can tell the manger not to a play in a defensive way - which is tactical.

Can you please answer me these

1 - This has been going on since Donegal 2011, has the GAA reacted to it properly by implementing PROPER rule changes to stop it happening in the past 8 years?

2 - do you honestly think it will change without proper rules being implemented?

3- is it right for school teachers managing teams to receive online/outside abuse about not winning things?

4-  can you see why school teachers, who previously didn't play so defensively, and encouraged more open football, decided to go defensively as a result of the abuse to try and win things?

1) There are no rules which can address such a fundamental lack of ambition. It's tactics, not rules that are the problem here. The GAA make playing rules, if someone wants to be hyper defensive within those rules then there is nothing they can do. This is the manager(s) fault not the GAA's.

2) See point 1

3) Criticism - Yes. Abuse - No.

4) No. Coach a team properly or don't bother at all.

[Chief]

So where do we draw the line? What happens in the next round or next year? If the opposition teams keep doing this to teams like Maghera then if I was one of the Maghera lads Id go play football or rugby every week rather than have to play against  that. No enjoyment in it and that is what is shoild be about at that level. Sad thing the GAA would be the biggest losers as the best players would be lost to the sport

I fully agree. It's not an ideal situation. But don't blame the players or the coaches for this. The coaches are not breaking any rules doing it. Blame the GAA for this as they refuse to address the main issue with this defensive craze - bodies. They have done next to nothing to create a rule to get all the bodies out of the defence which would help to sort this problem out once and for all.

You seem to be claiming that because management didn't break any rules then they are not to blame for the way Abbey set themselves up. Pure nonsense.

The coaches are absolutely to blame in this instance.

All the GAA do is make the rules of the game, they are not in charge of tactics. The manager picks the team and gives the instructions to the team about how to play. As I understand it,  the logic was to keep the score down so they could qualify, a different set of rules would only have meant the Abbey went hyper defensive in a different way.

The spectacle we witnessed was exclusively the fault of the management.

.

Of course it was the management who decided and implemented these tactics, when did I deny that? But let's be honest, Coaches have exploited and outsmarted the GAA rule book and in some ways, fair play to them as they have thought outside the box (Moreso the original introducers of it like McGuinness rather than the recent coaches who are just copying it). But the GAA have sat up and accepted it and not thought outside the box themselves in trying to counteract it. And it will continue to happen until the GAA sort it out and make a rule to stop it.

It's one thing implementing these defensive systems if you're an intercounty manager under intense scrutiny or a club manager (probably getting paid) for results. It's something else when an U15 manager of a school team sees himself as the next Mourinho and sends out a team of kids to play like that. Sad thing is he was probably boasting about it in the pub last night.

At that age group it should be about improving kids skill levels and the principal should get someone else to manage the team. What's next? Should we expect to see kids playing sweeper in mini games during half time at senior games?

Well when we see school managers / schools getting abuse and pressure on social media about failing to win things (as has been the case recently on social media) then I can at least show some
Understanding as to why a manager is going out to win. Then I see things on twitter about certain managers need to be put #(InsertManagersName - Out) and then again I see why school team  managers are trying to win things when after all the teaching aspect of their job is the main priority with the GAA being second, the GAA where they give so much of their free time to outside working teaching hours being used to encourage ousting them.

And you simply say the principal should get someone in to improve the skills. You obviously have no understanding of how schools work so you really shouldn't  be spoofing on here about that. Being successful with football teams I.e winning things is used as one way of attracting pupils to enrol in schools in order to keep numbers up. Children can pick a school who provides sport and is successful at sport. So that is further pressure on GAA schools managers  to win and part of reason why matches like Friday's match occur.

I wouldn't subject my son to football like that. Obviously not everyone can be a football coach, but ANY IDIOT can stand on a sideline and tell the whole team just to stay in their own half and defend.

As the school principal he or she clearly can't tell the manager who to pick or what tactics to implement, but he or she can say I don't want our school playing such a defensive way. When I was in school the teams were coached by a teacher who didn't get paid so I'd get another teacher to do the job. He or she might not win the U15 title, but at least the kids would enjoy playing the game. I mean if you think parents are going to enroll their kids in a school to play football like that then you really have joined the cult of McGuinness and I feel sorry for you

"As the school principal he or she clearly can't tell the manager who to pick or what tactics to implement, but he or she can say I don't want our school playing such a defensive way. " - ah here this is actually funny now. Within the same sentence you say a principal can't tell the manager what tactics to implement then say the principal can tell the manger not to a play in a defensive way - which is tactical.

Can you please answer me these

1 - This has been going on since Donegal 2011, has the GAA reacted to it properly by implementing PROPER rule changes to stop it happening in the past 8 years?

2 - do you honestly think it will change without proper rules being implemented?

3- is it right for school teachers managing teams to receive online/outside abuse about not winning things?

4-  can you see why school teachers, who previously didn't play so defensively, and encouraged more open football, decided to go defensively as a result of the abuse to try and win things?

1) There are no rules which can address such a fundamental lack of ambition. It's tactics, not rules that are the problem here. The GAA make playing rules, if someone wants to be hyper defensive within those rules then there is nothing they can do. This is the manager(s) fault not the GAA's.

2) See point 1

3) Criticism - Yes. Abuse - No.

4) No. Coach a team properly or don't bother at all.

Ah you're deluded my friend.

I hope you're not around a club/county meeting when the debate for proposing a rule change to sort this mess out is being discussed and you dismiss people saying there isn't any rule change to help. There MOST CERTAINLY is a simple rule change to sort it out and pretty quickly at that. But critics like you who just want to criticise managers keep doing what you do and bring nothing knowledgable to the table.

Go on then. You tell me the rule that "fixes" it and I'll tell you how a manager who is motivated to play negatively will work around it.

[thewobbler]

The rule to fix it is to penalise a team when they pass the ball backwards over either 45 or 65.

Why it would work is simple.

If 2-3 of the defending team push up and cover off the space in each "grid", then the attacking team will, over the course of a few phases, be forced into moving into the next grid. Rinse and repeat.

As each grid would therefore have the potential to become more congested than the previous one, the emphasis from an attacking point of view would be a) move the ball quickly through the grids, or when that is not an option, b) to forego possession in favour of territory i.e. put the ball in long. With option b), only an idiotic coach would not try to counter a numeric imbalance by pushing more men into the full forward line.

I know some people believe this concept is a reward for packing a defence, and foresee situations where Team A will just endlessly recycle the ball within their own 45. But a shot clock doesn't penalise a strong defensive unit: it penalises a team who refuses to move forward. This is the same principle, except the onus is placed on the defending team to coax the opposition forward.

The blight on Gaelic Football isn't packed defences. It's an unwillingness to attack. The rule change we need should make attacking THE priority at all times when in possession.

[Chief]

The rule to fix it is to penalise a team when they pass the ball backwards over either 45 or 65.

Why it would work is simple.

If 2-3 of the defending team push up and cover off the space in each "grid", then the attacking team will, over the course of a few phases, be forced into moving into the next grid. Rinse and repeat.

As each grid would therefore have the potential to become more congested than the previous one, the emphasis from an attacking point of view would be a) move the ball quickly through the grids, or when that is not an option, b) to forego possession in favour of territory i.e. put the ball in long. With option b), only an idiotic coach would not try to counter a numeric imbalance by pushing more men into the full forward line.

I know some people believe this concept is a reward for packing a defence, and foresee situations where Team A will just endlessly recycle the ball within their own 45. But a shot clock doesn't penalise a strong defensive unit: it penalises a team who refuses to move forward. This is the same principle, except the onus is placed on the defending team to coax the opposition forward.

The blight on Gaelic Football isn't packed defences. It's an unwillingness to attack. The rule change we need should make attacking THE priority at all times when in possession.

Surely a team with Abbey's mindset could just kick for touch (rugby style) in this system? Thereby they can kick it forward (and therefore not get penalised) without ever coming out of their defensive shell.

In this scenario the GAA would have changed the rules, but the defensive mindset would still remain the managers fault.

[thewobbler]

To put some meat on these bones.

Let's consider Fermanagh. Probably the gold standard in terms of squeezing every last drop of "there's no i in team" in Ireland, led by a very astute coach whose football strategy is a) get the defensive shape in place, then b) counter attack with conviction.

On the face of it, their style of football wouldn't change much if they couldn't pass "back beyond the lines". They're a counter attacking team after all.

But the problem they'd run into is that their game plan is fundamentally entwined with minimising the number of serious attacks they will face in any given match. Essentially, if the opposition can only generate say 20 forceful attacks in a match, then the likelihood is Fermanagh will have at worst a tally of around 1-12 to chase down, even against an in-form side.

How they minimise the number of forceful attacks is simple. They throw the ball around their own back line for minutes at a time, and will happily allow the opposition to do the same. It becomes in effect a 30-40 minute game instead of a 70 minute game.

If the opposition could send 3 attackers into the Fermanagh 45 safe in the knowledge that the ball, once forced out of this 'grid', will not be kicked straight back over to their heads back into that grid, then they have an immediate plus point. Step one of squeezing fermanagh into a turnover is complete and cannot be restarted. As such, the ball will likely be in play for maybe 40-45 minutes instead. They might score 1-15. Fermanagh might need to play a more open game to counteract this larger tally.


By the way, I've nothing against Fermanagh in the slightest. They're a credit to their county. And they're absolutely entitled to play the way they do. But as a blueprint for playing football goes, it's not the one I want to watch.

[thewobbler]

The rule to fix it is to penalise a team when they pass the ball backwards over either 45 or 65.

Why it would work is simple.

If 2-3 of the defending team push up and cover off the space in each "grid", then the attacking team will, over the course of a few phases, be forced into moving into the next grid. Rinse and repeat.

As each grid would therefore have the potential to become more congested than the previous one, the emphasis from an attacking point of view would be a) move the ball quickly through the grids, or when that is not an option, b) to forego possession in favour of territory i.e. put the ball in long. With option b), only an idiotic coach would not try to counter a numeric imbalance by pushing more men into the full forward line.

I know some people believe this concept is a reward for packing a defence, and foresee situations where Team A will just endlessly recycle the ball within their own 45. But a shot clock doesn't penalise a strong defensive unit: it penalises a team who refuses to move forward. This is the same principle, except the onus is placed on the defending team to coax the opposition forward.

The blight on Gaelic Football isn't packed defences. It's an unwillingness to attack. The rule change we need should make attacking THE priority at all times when in possession.

Surely a team with Abbey's mindset could just kick for touch (rugby style) in this system? Thereby they can kick it forward (and therefore not get penalised) without ever coming out of their defensive shell.

In this scenario the GAA would have changed the rules, but the defensive mindset would still remain the managers fault.

What I'm suggesting (probably guessing) is, that to take last week's Brock Cup game as an example.

Let's presume Abbey have no interest in playing football. So when they get the ball, they just, as you say, boot it into touch. What should an opposing manager do at this time? Well, if we know the Abbey aren't going to leave their shell, then push 5 men into full forward and rain sideline kicks in on top of them, with a simple intent of punching points, that's what. Should Abbey win these Hail Mary's, then if they cross the 45, they can't go back and kill the clock, they have to come out. Alternatively they can just boot it out of play as soon as they recover it. But if it rains sideline balls upon your full back line, you will concede from time to time. Before long they'll  be 4 points down. 4 points isn't a tally you can recover with 14 men back. That's just numbers in action.

[Itchy]

This is U15s

Both "coaches" and i use it very loosely, should be told to f**k off out of the school. These guys are murdering football in front of our eyes. They are not clever, they are not astute, they are not pioneers. They are just weak coaches with no innovation or flair. Useless to any county in the long run.

[brokencrossbar1]

The biggest curse of modern 'football' is the inability of players to actually tackle and defend as individuals and simply to rely of tactics to be their defenders.  I have seen sweepers being played at u12 blitzs for christ sake!  I think that the whole idea of 'zonal' stuff and no 'back pass' over the half way line a la basketball is the only way to regulate it.  More importantly though there needs to be a mindset change and focus on coaching the skills better at a younger age.  The game is being slowly killed and there is a real ostrich in the sand approach. 

[Christmas Lights]

Always makes me laugh the outrage this type of game of game creates.

Hundreds of games played a week and people pick apart the worst one to get all frantic about.  Its a typical Irish attitude tbf.  Lets all get hysterical about this one game, lets face it, that scoreline is a rarity. People need to calm down.

[thewobbler]

Always makes me laugh the outrage this type of game of game creates.

Hundreds of games played a week and people pick apart the worst one to get all frantic about.  Its a typical Irish attitude tbf.  Lets all get hysterical about this one game, lets face it, that scoreline is a rarity. People need to calm down.

The problem is real.

[Taylor]

The Abbey could find themselves a few students down if this meeting they are having today doesnt go the way some parents want it to go

[Jeepers Creepers]

At what point do you realise your only a point down and go for it.

[Maiden1]

At what point do you realise your only a point down and go for it.

At what point do you go time is running out and we are still only 1 point up.  Imagine Dublin did that against Laois and Laois stuck a couple of midfielders in at full forward in the last 5 minutes and bombed the ball in.  They'd be well screwed if the ball bounced around and came of someones knee and ended in the back of the net.  If they were 4 points up and they just kicked the ball around as the other team wouldn't come out fair enough but 1 point up and not really looking to find a gap in the Abbey defense was asking for trouble.  If Maghera are clearly the better team (and the scores in there previous games indicate they are) then making the match effectively 10 minutes long gave the weaker team a much better chance of a smash and grab type win.