Running

[majestic]

Lads, I have a running question. I have started my pre preseason training. Hoping to get in good running shape  to play 60 minutes of football by April 2016. I am currently running 400m (100m shuttles). Doing two session of 6x400m, and will increase the number of reps as the weeks go on.

My question is surrounding recovery and pace. I thought a decent target for a base level of fitness would be a 5K in 22 mins. So through some quick research online, it said that i should be doing my 400m in around 90s, recovery, then repeat.

However I find that I am doing the first one in about 80s, then they drop off fairly steeply, to 90,95 sort of area. I take 2/3 mins recovery between each run.

Should I try and pace myself more to get more in at under the 90s and be strict with recovery time or should I run each one as hard as possible, and take more recovery? Looking for the quickest way to improve fitness levels.
Thanks

[ballinaman]

Strict with the recovery time. It challenges the body to remove lactic acid and then use it as an energy source.
Even spread of splits with a gradual reduction in recovery time...5 second reduction every 2-3 weeks once you can maintain even splits across the session.

[imtommygunn]

Rule of thumb with intervals...

First and last intervals should be the same pace.

As bm says you should discipline recovery. It gets the body used to working with lactic etc.

You'll take longer seeing the benefits if you don't stay even.

In addition another good rule is not to take a target time and do intervals on it. If you can run a 22 5k fair enough though if not work out interval pace at what you can -currently- do a 5k at.

[majestic]

Strict with the recovery time. It challenges the body to remove lactic acid and then use it as an energy source.
Even spread of splits with a gradual reduction in recovery time...5 second reduction every 2-3 weeks once you can maintain even splits across the session.

Thanks guys - great advice. I will have to adjust my target times (allowing for current 5K pace) few other question:

What would you say a good goal would be in terms of maintaining the split time? for a 400m (with 3 turns)? and in terms of reps per session, and maximum recovery time? (im thinking long term goals that would provide a decent level of fitness for football)

For example, would you say a session consisting of 8x400m at 85s, with 60s rest is achieveable over the next couple of months?

[imtommygunn]

As bm says pull the recovery in as you go along.

I would say start at 90ish and find your sweet spot where you can maintain it across 8 reps. You are better starting slow and if it's too slow just speed up as you go along.

Once you get stronger and adapt to your pace pull recovery in.

If you are going from 80 to 90+ i would start about 91/92 a rep for you.

[Bingo]

Lads a bit of advice.

After doing Berlin, I'm in for Dublin. Was in two minds but the missus is doing it now and wants me to do it, not with her but just to take part. It was always in the back of the mind with Berlin and a 4 week gap between them, many seem to take on the two.

Anyways, I haven't done anything since between travel, the run and everything I felt jaded all week and a dull dehydrated feeling. Better yesterday, so will go for a short recover run this evening and do a bit over the weekend. Plan to do a bit more light runs over the weekend.

Plan then to do a bit more next week, more the following week (few 7/8 miles midweek, bit of speed stuff and maybe 12/13 at the weekend) and then taper for the week before it. Kinda take it by feel and see how the legs go.

Does this seem ok? Not sure of the marathon pace itself until closer the date but already have it in my head to at least chase a Dublin PB (3.21). Given everything is this advisable or even doable? I do appreciate that it will very much depend on the recovery but as it stands the legs feel very strong again and I'm itching to get for a run this evening to see just how good they are.

Thanks.

[Bingo]

It was my first marathon so I don't have a lot to compare it to... but I thought it was fantastic.  There was great support the whole way and I found the stations well stocked.  It was very flat and the weather was perfect.  I've seen some people complain about the cups of water but I didn't find it an issue (I was hoping for a sub 5 hour so it didn't bother me to stop and sip it).  The bag drop was well enough signposted I thought.  I finished in 4.53 which I was delighted to get and I'll definitely run more marathons now.  I'd highly recommend Berlin to a first timer.  What did you think?  You were going for a much quicker time...... did you find the stations problematic?

Fair play mb80b60 (the name just rolls off the tongue!).

Much like you, I didn't have too much of an issue at the stations. Nearer the end was a few bumps with people suddenly stopping but I think that I was tired at that stage and the concentration levels where dropping, managed great though and I used straws from my belt to drink from the cups and it was brilliant. Got a full glass onboard at ease at every station. Really helped as it was warm and humid.

Great atmosphere all the way and for the numbers involved couldn't fault the organisation. Would defo recommend it to anyone. I prepaid for the t-shirts and glad I did, they great Adidas gear and one of them in GAA club colours which was a sign when I collected it Saturday as they where playing in a championship quarter final that afternoon and they won.

[ballinaman]

Definitely achievable Bingo. Wouldn't have any experience of doing marathons in succession myself but that seems like a reasonable plan. I know a lad who ran a 3.12 in Brighton this year and a 2.57 the week after in London having never got below 3.04 before then.. Rest up and ease back into it for 2 weeks. Few marathon pace miles in week 3 and taper week 4.

[laoislad]

Strict with the recovery time. It challenges the body to remove lactic acid and then use it as an energy source.
Even spread of splits with a gradual reduction in recovery time...5 second reduction every 2-3 weeks once you can maintain even splits across the session.

Thanks guys - great advice. I will have to adjust my target times (allowing for current 5K pace) few other question:

What would you say a good goal would be in terms of maintaining the split time? for a 400m (with 3 turns)? and in terms of reps per session, and maximum recovery time? (im thinking long term goals that would provide a decent level of fitness for football)

For example, would you say a session consisting of 8x400m at 85s, with 60s rest is achieveable over the next couple of months?

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but should you not be doing a few longer slower runs also rather than all intervals? Maybe you are already.

[ballinaman]

 I'm not sure how I'll carry the staws bingo. Did you use thick ones ya?
Planning on having 2 gels...that's what I've practiced with at mile 10 and 18. Have a zip pocket in shorts at back and will carry other in hand until mile 10.
Don't have a belt...well I did but it was robbed after I left it on bonnet of car in Phoenix park before...pricks! Only use 2 gels so don't think it's needed.

Paper cups in Amsterdam, fair enough as bottles can't be dangerous with that volume of runners as LL found out in the national half marathon.
Watched a go pro video of Amsterdam race last year on YouTube...they give out half bananas. Practiced trying to eat one at 6.15 mile pace the last day...not easy with the breathing! Will be an emergency plan if blowing black smoke in last 3 or 4 mile!

[imtommygunn]

Question unrelated to running as i know some of you be in phoenix park running...

Where is handiest to park for zoo? Are there car parks in there?

[laoislad]

Question unrelated to running as i know some of you be in phoenix park running...

Where is handiest to park for zoo? Are there car parks in there?

Depending on the time of the day you should get parking on the side of the road of Chesterfield Avenue, especially if you drive up a little bit past the Zoo.

[imtommygunn]

Cheers Ll.

[Bingo]

I'm not sure how I'll carry the staws bingo. Did you use thick ones ya?
Planning on having 2 gels...that's what I've practiced with at mile 10 and 18. Have a zip pocket in shorts at back and will carry other in hand until mile 10.
Don't have a belt...well I did but it was robbed after I left it on bonnet of car in Phoenix park before...pricks! Only use 2 gels so don't think it's needed.

Paper cups in Amsterdam, fair enough as bottles can't be dangerous with that volume of runners as LL found out in the national half marathon.
Watched a go pro video of Amsterdam race last year on YouTube...they give out half bananas. Practiced trying to eat one at 6.15 mile pace the last day...not easy with the breathing! Will be an emergency plan if blowing black smoke in last 3 or 4 mile!

I used a flip belt for the gels and straws. They are an ingenius thing in my opinion and I seen the Run Hub advertising them last night on facebook/twitter. In training I rarely used gels bar twice just to ensure that the stomach could handle them. But I ran a few times with it on and gels in it, just to get used to it.

Never knew it was there. Had the straws tucked in the front of it and worked great, just fished it out approaching the water station and put it back in after dumping the cup. Water went down very quick as it was controlled through the straw.

I used a normal enough straw with a bendy bit. I had about 6 straws (cut to size of the cup) but I only used one of them the whole run.

Not sure what you speedsters would like to wear or where you could place it with no belt and every bit of weight counting.

You could carry it behind the ear like a fag 

Definitely achievable Bingo. Wouldn't have any experience of doing marathons in succession myself but that seems like a reasonable plan. I know a lad who ran a 3.12 in Brighton this year and a 2.57 the week after in London having never got below 3.04 before then.. Rest up and ease back into it for 2 weeks. Few marathon pace miles in week 3 and taper week 4.

Cheers, think i'm approaching it right but a few runs will tell the tale.

[heffo]

Question unrelated to running as i know some of you be in phoenix park running...

Where is handiest to park for zoo? Are there car parks in there?

Depending on the time of the day you should get parking on the side of the road of Chesterfield Avenue, especially if you drive up a little bit past the Zoo.

Yeah as LL said, Chesterfield ave