Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

[lurganblue]

Higgins selected is a strange one for Armagh not much football all year, presume he is in to match up Comer physically.  McCambridge omitted again held Walsh scoreless from play in the league game would have expected him to start ahead of Paddy Burns. No real complaints from midfield up Comiskey has been a good impact player.  Armagh will need big games from the full forward line I feel and Grugan to play well.

The names in Irish are interesting. Coilleach Eanach is hard to link to Cullyhanna, which is nonsense
Droimeann Ti is easy
Cill Sleibhe is interesting . Did they drop the s to get Killeavy?

I mind my Irish teacher used to give out to me that our club should be Clan Na nGael and why wasnt it that... like i was head of making those decisions

[Orior]

Higgins selected is a strange one for Armagh not much football all year, presume he is in to match up Comer physically.  McCambridge omitted again held Walsh scoreless from play in the league game would have expected him to start ahead of Paddy Burns. No real complaints from midfield up Comiskey has been a good impact player.  Armagh will need big games from the full forward line I feel and Grugan to play well.

The names in Irish are interesting. Coilleach Eanach is hard to link to Cullyhanna, which is nonsense
Droimeann Ti is easy
Cill Sleibhe is interesting . Did they drop the s to get Killeavy?

I like looking for clan family names in the wrong county. For example, a Magennis playing for Armagh, while an O'Hanlon played for Down.

[seafoid]

Higgins selected is a strange one for Armagh not much football all year, presume he is in to match up Comer physically.  McCambridge omitted again held Walsh scoreless from play in the league game would have expected him to start ahead of Paddy Burns. No real complaints from midfield up Comiskey has been a good impact player.  Armagh will need big games from the full forward line I feel and Grugan to play well.

The names in Irish are interesting. Coilleach Eanach is hard to link to Cullyhanna, which is nonsense
Droimeann Ti is easy
Cill Sleibhe is interesting . Did they drop the s to get Killeavy?

I like looking for clan family names in the wrong county. For example, a Magennis playing for Armagh, while an O'Hanlon played for Down.

The GAA connection to geographical place must be special in organised sport

[David McKeown]

https://youtu.be/izHPKwcg8bw

Knee drop.
Holding knee on face.

I can't see how anybody can deny either of those statements. The rabbit punch is debatable.

I don't see a knee drop and it wasn't included in the referees report. The red card was for keeping his knees on his opponent, which I do have a problem with given said opponent was pulling him (as opposed to pushing him) at the time and when the player is keeping his feet under his knees and on the ground reducing the weight going through the knees. But the decision has been made, hopefully it's a precedent that's not followed.

On the game it's self I can only see a Galway win but I think Armagh will still progress because as I understand it Armagh have to lose by at least 5 to be in dangerous and even then it would still need a very specific result in the other match.

[Fuzzman]

I can appreciate most people see incidents from their own teams point of view and I would agree there was no knee drop but surely you can see that Rian was the one that moved his knee towards Quinn head. Quinn did not pull his knee or leg towards his head. Why would he do that?
Tell me were there other incidents where Rian was getting hit or anything else off the ball that got him riled up? Genuine question.

Do you not think it's strange that most neutrals see it this way and think it was a red card and even now after it went to appeal who obviously looked it again and again from the various angles, ye still don't accept maybe ye have it wrong.

Are you saying that putting a knee on a players head should only be a yellow card?
Rian seemed pretty determined to not let Quinn back up or walk away from the incident

[DhoireTheas]

Higgins selected is a strange one for Armagh not much football all year, presume he is in to match up Comer physically.  McCambridge omitted again held Walsh scoreless from play in the league game would have expected him to start ahead of Paddy Burns. No real complaints from midfield up Comiskey has been a good impact player.  Armagh will need big games from the full forward line I feel and Grugan to play well.

The names in Irish are interesting. Coilleach Eanach is hard to link to Cullyhanna, which is nonsense
Droimeann Ti is easy
Cill Sleibhe is interesting . Did they drop the s to get Killeavy?

I like looking for clan family names in the wrong county. For example, a Magennis playing for Armagh, while an O'Hanlon played for Down.

It isn't always clear cut as major clans spread across several counties. Take Tyrone for example, the origin of the UI Neill came from Inishowen modern Donegal but Tyrone love playing up the O'Neill and UI Neill history thing. I know that the medieval O'Neill were centred in Cookstown and Dungannon but the UI Neill goes back long before that. In fact my own county of Derry was part of the original Cenel Eoghain. People in the GAA like to over simplify Irish history.

[seafoid]

Higgins selected is a strange one for Armagh not much football all year, presume he is in to match up Comer physically.  McCambridge omitted again held Walsh scoreless from play in the league game would have expected him to start ahead of Paddy Burns. No real complaints from midfield up Comiskey has been a good impact player.  Armagh will need big games from the full forward line I feel and Grugan to play well.

The names in Irish are interesting. Coilleach Eanach is hard to link to Cullyhanna, which is nonsense
Droimeann Ti is easy
Cill Sleibhe is interesting . Did they drop the s to get Killeavy?

I like looking for clan family names in the wrong county. For example, a Magennis playing for Armagh, while an O'Hanlon played for Down.

It isn't always clear cut as major clans spread across several counties. Take Tyrone for example, the origin of the UI Neill came from Inishowen modern Donegal but Tyrone love playing up the O'Neill and UI Neill history thing. I know that the medieval O'Neill were centred in Cookstown and Dungannon but the UI Neill goes back long before that. In fact my own county of Derry was part of the original Cenel Eoghain. People in the GAA like to over simplify Irish history.

Irish history goes back a very long way compared to Ulster Protestant history cough cough.
There were a lot of changes over the years.

[tonto1888]

I can appreciate most people see incidents from their own teams point of view and I would agree there was no knee drop but surely you can see that Rian was the one that moved his knee towards Quinn head. Quinn did not pull his knee or leg towards his head. Why would he do that?
Tell me were there other incidents where Rian was getting hit or anything else off the ball that got him riled up? Genuine question.

Do you not think it's strange that most neutrals see it this way and think it was a red card and even now after it went to appeal who obviously looked it again and again from the various angles, ye still don't accept maybe ye have it wrong.

Are you saying that putting a knee on a players head should only be a yellow card?
Rian seemed pretty determined to not let Quinn back up or walk away from the incident

If this is aimed at me, I have never denied he shouldn't have had a red card. He put his knee on the guys head. A definite red card. There was no knee drop though.

[David McKeown]

I can appreciate most people see incidents from their own teams point of view and I would agree there was no knee drop but surely you can see that Rian was the one that moved his knee towards Quinn head. Quinn did not pull his knee or leg towards his head. Why would he do that?
Tell me were there other incidents where Rian was getting hit or anything else off the ball that got him riled up? Genuine question.

Do you not think it's strange that most neutrals see it this way and think it was a red card and even now after it went to appeal who obviously looked it again and again from the various angles, ye still don't accept maybe ye have it wrong.

Are you saying that putting a knee on a players head should only be a yellow card?
Rian seemed pretty determined to not let Quinn back up or walk away from the incident

I think you have to look at each scenario on its merits.

To answer your questions I dont see a deliberate move by Rian with his knee towards Quinn's head.  I do see his knee being in contact with Quinns head but that comes about in the context of a scuffle between at least the two players.  Why Quinn engaged in a scuffle is immaterial and not something I can answer.  Nor do I know what incidents may or may not have riled up Rian but again I don't see the relevance.  What I do see as relevant though is that O'Neill wasnt sent off for that either he was sent off for keeping his knee on Quinn's head thus endangering Quinn's safety.

Dealing with your other points I don't think there's a consistent approach to why it should have been a red card.  In fact Ive read three or four different versions of why it should have been red on this thread alone.  Either people think he dropped the knees (which he didn't and which he wasn't sent off for).  Some seem to think it was a red because hes that type of player (which he maybe but that irrelevant to whether he should have been sent off or not) There's others who think it was a red just because he knee was on Quinn's head which I again disagree with for two reasons.  Firstly the footage shows that when his knee is in contact with Quinn's head Quinn is attempting to pull Rian towards him.  He is not trying to push him off as would be the natural reaction if someone had their knee on your head.  I think that is something that serious questions have to be asked about.  Secondly I think its important to note that Rian keeps his feet below his knees and on the ground minimising any weight that would act through his knees.  So in this instance I don't see any deliberate or reckless act by Rian that should give rise to the sending off.  As a result I dont think theres a consistent view on why it should have been red

I do think its important to note that he was sent off for keeping his knees there and I think the circumstances of that were such that its difficult to accept that was a definitive red.

In respect of your last point, in all the footage I have seen Rian isnt letting Quinn up because he cant as Quinn is pulling him downward and not pushing him away as would be the normal reaction if someone is on top of you.

To sum up I dont think it was a red, I do think its clever play by Quinn who I think makes the incident worse and who I dont think ever feared for his safety. I also place little to no weight on the judgements of the CHCC.  That said its done and over, time to move on with tomorrows game.

I should add I think the single most dangerous thing to happen in the match was Mackin's hit in the second half for which he was booked.  To me that should have been red.

[David McKeown]

If you can't win the group would you now rather finish second or third?

[yellowcard]

Looking at the potential opponents Armagh could now face we would be better off losing and finishing third now.

[Wildweasel74]

Am not Tyrone or Armagh but I can't understand how anybody query that card, you can see on replays O'Neill putting his weight down on u man.

[tonto1888]

If you can't win the group would you now rather finish second or third?

Third. That said I'm todays performance Kildare would beat us

[bennydorano]

Little difference now. As long as there's no more upsets today

[seafoid]

Per Raidio na Gaeltachta McHugh #5 and Comer *14 will not line out for Galway and due to an administrative c*ck up cannot be added to the subs.
Surely that's something to intensify  the measurement on the Armagh excitement richter scale.