Armagh next steps

[Itchy]

mickey graham to replace mc geeney! sweet jesus.

Well he has an Ulster 

Actually, Grahams managerial record is way ahead of McGeeney. Forgot his Leinster club. Had the relegations with Cavan but has taken them back into Div2 against Armagh next year. All the while he has lost some of his best players along the way. He wins things. Something Armagh lack.

I am off the opinion that the only way for a county to truly progress is with an inside man as the temptation is too strong for an outside man to do the wrong thing for short term gain. There are probably the odd exception to the rule (you might argue Mickey Harte is but lets see what shape Louth are in when he leaves). So when you strip out the outside men, do you have better internal candidates than what is there already.

I do think bringing in outside help in your backroom team is a good way to get new ideas and expertise though, but with a inside man with the final say.

[OakLeaf]

As an outsider looking in I thought that 2 or 3 years ago is when they should have changed away from McGeeney. It's almost too late now ahead of any rebuild.

[statto]

Armagh are a bit like Cavan in that they've a manager that has run his course probably but when you look out there for the next manager you might be inclined to stick with the devil you know.

I'd strongly disagree there. That's fear rather than making the right call for the right reasons.

There is lots of people out there. You just have to be ambitious - Louth going after Harte; Antrim with McGinley and then Andy McEntee. Down getting Laverty.

Was Gallagher an obvious one to Derry? Manages will travel, Mark Doran going to Clare, Tally to Kerry.

Could they sell a project to Malachy O'Rourke? Oisin McConville? McEntees? Mickey Graham? Enda McGinley? Jim McGuinness? Pat Gilroy?

I think some overthink it. Top managers love the challenge and the chance to make a breakthrough.

Mad the way some people think. What have Andy McEntee, McGinley,  Laverty and a couple more on that list done that would put them ahead of McGeeney?

The same Enda McGinley that dropped Ruairi McCann off the panel and has scored nearly a goal every game this year.  Laverty didn't get Down out of Divison 2 and first proper test Down got against Armagh were hammered.  Laverty will probably do well in the longrun but has alot to prove at moment. 

[Gold]

Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.

I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.

But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.

Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.

Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.

The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.

There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.

Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.

Aidan Nugent to come back too

A huge attacking loss this year

[statto]

Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.

I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.

But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.

Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.

Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.

The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.

There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.

Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.

Aidan Nugent to come back too

A huge attacking loss this year

He has been involved and the less said about his form the better.  Was sent back to play with his club a few weeks ago. 

[statto]

I am on the fence with what happens next. 

McGeeney has got basically every player who should be on the panel there and buying into the thing.  Theres probably only a year or 2 left in the 09 minor team on the panel grugan murnin(who had a brilliant year)morgan and soupy and a change of management may make them consider their inter county future.  Armagh are always competitive in any game they play. 

You often hear the phrase win or learn, my concern would be that we learnt nothing from the Derry game as the game on Saturday ended up in the same scenario with Armagh playing passively when they had the extra man in extra time.  Armagh are a front foot team and played into Monaghan's hands the way they approached the game on Saturday.  I thought Croke Park would suit Armagh and saw in league game a few years ago against Dublin when moved the ball quickly by foot they were a joy to watch.  The under usage of Cian McConville who has been probably best club forward in Armagh over the past few seasons is also a strange one. 

If a better option became available then a change may be good but sometimes you need to be careful for what you wish for. 

[Armagh18]

Upwards of a third of the current starting team won't be there in 2025, so a significant rebuild really is in the post for Armagh. That's the project for the next management team.

I think honest discussion is required between all stakeholders over the next few months. If Grugan, Campbell, etc., decide on one last dance in 2024 then it makes the most sense to keep McGeeney in place. I don't think new management would have the time to turn the bus in a new direction before those lads start getting off - it'll take a while to move on from 9+ years of McGeeneyism.

But if those older boys decide they've had their fill, then it's as good a time as any to bite the bullet and see what someone else can do in the hotseat.

Were Armagh ever to ditch McGeeney, I think the time to do it was probably in and around 2020/21. That would have allowed different management with different ideas a good 3/4 seasons with the current group. We'll never know how that might have turned out - but for me, we're as likely to have bombed to Division 3 again as anything else. It's very difficult to separate out the effect of McGeeney from the credentials of the current panel. Few of those involved have played much county football under anyone else - for better or worse, McGeeney has been central to the development of all of them.

Derry will probably improve again next year, and so might Tyrone under new management, but if Armagh keep the band together they won't be far away from an Ulster title in 2024 - an AI is miles out of reach while either of Dublin or Kerry have their shit together.

The football under McGeeney this last year or so was mostly dreadful to watch, but it did leave Armagh competitive in every game against every opposition. They've lost one of the last 11 championship games within the regulation 70 minutes - and that one game was played with a numerical disadvantage for the most part. It's been 17 league games, all against Division 1 opposition, since Armagh lost by more than a single score. There's a very solid base there.

There are also some very talented players to return from long term injury, like Oisin O'Neill, Ciaron O'Hanlon and Tiernan Kelly. These are all big, powerful, mobile footballers - built for the way the game is played these days. Fit and flying versions of each would add enormous impetus to any challenge in 2024. A couple of tweaks in approach, maybe some more conviction when in winning positions, and the summit can be reached.

Of course, the last few paragraphs are an admittedly optimistic take on things - but Armagh's next steps probably depend on how much this sort of optimism resonates with the men from the class of 2009.

Aidan Nugent to come back too

A huge attacking loss this year

He has been involved and the less said about his form the better.  Was sent back to play with his club a few weeks ago.

Get him back to the form he was in last year and he's some addition.

[Louther]

mickey graham to replace mc geeney! sweet jesus.

Well he has an Ulster 

Actually, Grahams managerial record is way ahead of McGeeney. Forgot his Leinster club. Had the relegations with Cavan but has taken them back into Div2 against Armagh next year. All the while he has lost some of his best players along the way. He wins things. Something Armagh lack.

I am off the opinion that the only way for a county to truly progress is with an inside man as the temptation is too strong for an outside man to do the wrong thing for short term gain. There are probably the odd exception to the rule (you might argue Mickey Harte is but lets see what shape Louth are in when he leaves). So when you strip out the outside men, do you have better internal candidates than what is there already.

I do think bringing in outside help in your backroom team is a good way to get new ideas and expertise though, but with a inside man with the final say.

It's about the right person, inside or outside. Plenty of bad examples of both.

Somethings the outside man will make the right decisions to make that breakthrough. Malachy O'Rourke in Monaghan, Gallagher in Derry, McStay in Roscommon, Micko and Paidi back in the day. They make not have the long term in mind but they don't have the baggage of the past. Some counties don't need that breakthrough and have their own men to shake things up.

Backroom is key nowadays and that's the big thing to get right. Again, there is very diligent good people in every county that don't have to be high profile from an outside county. We have a lot of recently retired county players who are latching onto high profile roles without cutting their teeth in club or underage county and we don't really know what they taking to the job.

[seafoid]

The important thing is to kick on from here . Armagh are in a better place than Down, for example.

[5times5times]

Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?

Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?

Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg

[statto]

Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?

Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?

Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg

Blaine Hughes while a very capable goalkeeper at club level, I think lacks the height/presence to be top level intercounty goalkeeper and stepped away after the Rafferty experiment.  The no2 goalkeeper currently Shea Magill would not inspire me with confidence.  I don't see why not at this stage as there is no glaring alternative. 

Niall Morgan plays outfield for Edendork as far as I am aware plays similar role for Tyrone but this never gets mentioned.  I presume this is because Rafferty actually played outfield at intercounty level.  Shane Ryan think did the same.

[seafoid]

Why can't Armagh be like Ros and practice the endgame scenario where Armagh are level and facing down the barrel of penalties ?
This has happened 3 times. Why is it never Armagh scoring the winning point in regular time ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s

[clarshack]

Why can't Armagh be like Ros and practice the endgame scenario where Armagh are level and facing down the barrel of penalties ?
This has happened 3 times. Why is it never Armagh scoring the winning point in regular time ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s

Why did England never go for the winner after so many penalty losses. That always amazed me even before Armagh.

[tonto1888]

Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?

Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?

Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg

On the real goalkeeper question, I believe it would. I don't think we will win any penalty shoot out with Rafferty in goals. That's not meant as disrespectful to him I just believe someone who is an a tualy goalie is a better option in those circumstances

[AustinPowers]

Do Armagh persist with the Rafferty experiment? Bar a fluky goal v Galway in league, has been been a success this year?

Would a "real" goalkeeper have given us a better change in the 3 pen shootouts?

Would he not be an option at FF? Great hands and left peg

Blaine Hughes while a very capable goalkeeper at club level, I think lacks the height/presence to be top level intercounty goalkeeper and stepped away after the Rafferty experiment.  The no2 goalkeeper currently Shea Magill would not inspire me with confidence.  I don't see why not at this stage as there is no glaring alternative. 

Niall Morgan plays outfield for Edendork as far as I am aware plays similar role for Tyrone but this never gets mentioned.  I presume this is because Rafferty actually played outfield at intercounty level.  Shane Ryan think did the same.

Rafferty is too  ponderous on the  ball. And opposing players  have targeted him with late hits  whereas they wouldn't  Armagh defenders.  Then he has to  get a defender to cover the goal if he's caught out

The time Morgan  came out of goals, and launched a massive ball upfield  in the 21 final , which resulted in  mccurry missing   that soccer style chance. That's what a  fly goalie can do . Thats an example  of how quick and deadly  a goalie coming out can be. If Rafferty is to stay in goals , because he has a  great long kick on him , that's the sort of thing  he should be doing  (what Morgan did that time). Come to think of it , Morgan should be delivering that kind of ball  more often too!